Front discs warping

[mdbirtles]

Hi,

 

I have a 245 Octavia with 32k on the clock.

I’ve had the front discs and pads changed 5 times due to discs warping.

Bought the car with only 2800 miles on the clock and they were warped then !

 

Naturally it’s much worse on the motorway at higher speed with the brake pedal pulsing when braking.

 

Any ideas before I try the dealers ?

[Tech1e]

Before the discs were changed was the run out measured?

 

what discs are being used?

[Ootohere]

Very unlikely that all the discs being fitted are warping after a few thousand miles.

[FluffyEyeball]

Are you being very harsh with your braking quite often? Overheating them is the most common reason for warping. As Skoffski said, it's very unlikely the new disks will do that with normal (or even reasonably hard) use. 

 

Have you checked to see if one or both brakes are binding? 

[Ootohere]

In the UK that would have to be very spirited driving on public roads, then stopping with glowing brakes with the foot hard on the brake pedal or 'Auto hold' functioning. Or driving through a 'ford' after spirited driving and cooked brakes.

Even then with vented discs that is unlikely.

 

Now if it was a 60 or 75 bhp Citigo 5 disc changes would not be a surprise...

Edited 3 June, 2019 by Skoffski

[flybynite]

3 hours ago, mdbirtles said:

Any ideas before I try the dealers ?

 

Not unheard of to warp disks, but five times in a row I think not. The big heavy vented 345s are not easy to warp, it is about the only good thing about them. If they are warped it is easy to check with a straight edge and dial gauge on the bench. 

 

It can happen if you get brakes hot and then sit stationary on the brakes, but as said above, that's a lot of hard driving. If it is a warped disk sometimes you can straighten them by doing a "bedding in procedure" again.

 

I think there is a bigger problem. As above I think the runout is amiss, Did they use a dial gauge when fitting the disk? Can be caused if they gloop a load of grease between the disk and the hub.

 

Sometimes the pulsing/kicking is pad residue, but that is easily seen on the disk surface. If the disk is clean then it is something else

 

You can check for brake binding caused either by a sticking piston or pad sticking in the slider. If the brake is binding it will get very hot very quickly.

 

I would have thought after the first couple of changes someone would have done some investigation? Everything needs checking for good operation (pads, piston, sliders, disk flatness and runout) then go from there.

Edited 3 June, 2019 by flybynite

[mdbirtles]

Hi,

 

thanks for your reply.

Most helpful.

 

Just wondering why when the pads and discs are changed that everything calms down ?

it usually takes about 3 weeks approx for the symptoms to come back again.

 

Cheers 👍

Edited 3 June, 2019 by mdbirtles

[Tech1e]

Genuine discs?

[Kenai]

It's incredibly unlikely that you're actually warping discs. What normally happening when people say they've warped the discs is that brake pad material has deposited itself unevenly over the discs. 

 

It's common on automatics because it happens most when you've braked moderately hard and then don't release the brakes. As this happens more and more, the brake discs gradually end up with uneven deposits that cause the vibration. As yours is a DSG I'd wager this is what's happening.

 

You can sometimes help this by giving it a few good hard stops to clear the deposits and then be very mindful not to just sit on brakes when stopping for more than a few seconds after braking and see if the problem stops. 

 

Edit - you might find this an interesting read

http://www.mossmotoring.com/warped-brake-rotors-the-facts/

Edited 3 June, 2019 by Kenai

[flybynite]

3 minutes ago, mdbirtles said:

Just wondering why when the pads and discs are changed that everything calms down ?

 

Yes that is a bit curious, sometimes the problem may always be there but modern over-servo'd brakes with all kinds of ABS gear in the way can mask some problems until they get worse.

 

You could try to bed the new brakes in, it is something I do but as I said I have not had problems with this brake setup even when I don't. Can't hurt

 

It is what makes me think there is a more fundamental problem with the caliper or alignment somewhere in the brake. Is it one side or both that are doing it?

 

I normally try to sort the brakes myself by a good Italian tune and let the brakes cool slowly with no brake applications (normally needs a quiet stretch of motorway. Fixed quite a few that way.

 

7 minutes ago, Kenai said:

What normally happening when people say they've warped the discs is that brake pad material has deposited itself unevenly over the discs. 

 

Yes but that is visible on the disk should be easy to see, Disks do warp but that is also easy to see when off the car. Should not take 5 goes to diagnose.

 

Unless it is a main dealer I would try using a different (better) make of disk and pad.

 

 

[Kenai]

7 minutes ago, flybynite said:

 

Yes but that is visible on the disk should be easy to see, 

Assuming the person knows what they're looking for of course, I expect most motorists would struggle to point you to brake pads themselves, nevermind judge the discs for deposits 😜

 

If it's then just constantly getting booked in for warranty replacements after someone agrees there is vibration, there's nothing to say the person changing them is doing anything more than swapping in new parts. 

 

I still maintain its incredibley unlikely someone has actually warped 5 sets of standard vented discs though.

 

I will be surprised if it's anything other than poor bedding in procedure, leading to deposits, hence the repeated reoccurrence but after a few weeks each time. 

[Ootohere]

BIG QUESTION.

 

Has 'Skoda' actually paid an 'Approved Repairer' / Skoda Main Dealership to replace Discs & Pads, 1, 2, 3, 4 or even 5 times?

 

If so 'Rod McLeod' or someone from his Executive team needs to find out why, seeing as there are owners / Customers with Valid Warranty Claims being knocked back by 

'Warranty Managers', Service Managers or Service / Reception Staff, Fitters or Techs. 

 

'Simply Clever', is 'Diagnostics being done and repairs where needed and not 'Managing some customers expectations'.

[flybynite]

1 minute ago, Kenai said:

I still maintain its incredibley unlikely someone has actually warped 5 sets of standard vented discs though.

 

Agree, it is what I said above   "Not unheard of to warp disks, but five times in a row I think not" especially these disks

 

6 minutes ago, Kenai said:

I expect most motorists would struggle to point you to brake pads themselves, nevermind judge the discs for deposits 😜

If it's then just constantly getting booked in for warranty replacements after someone agrees there is vibration, there's nothing to say the person changing them is doing anything more than swapping in new parts. 

 

Yes but this is being done by a dealer, and whilst you are probably right, they SHOULD be looking at the parts coming off. Questions need to be asked and that is the point of the OP's first post. Ask the question, make them look.

 

9 minutes ago, Kenai said:

I will be surprised if it's anything other than poor bedding in procedure, leading to deposits, hence the repeated reoccurrence but after a few weeks each time. 

 

It is why I said "You could try to bed the new brakes in"  but if this IS the case the problem can be easily sorted by doing the same thing now, burn it off - let the brakes cool slowly.

 

If it is happening so often, the OP is doing something with these brakes that I have not done in nearly 15 years of driving this brake setup on various machines. Something is wrong and it may be the pad compound.

 

I think we are on the same page here, but I am more concerned about the cause. With OEM or better brakes it should not be happening so often no matter how the OP is driving.

[mdbirtles]

Thanks for the replies,

 

its booked in at Marshall Skoda in Nottingham next Wednesday.

I’ll let you know their findings.

 

For what it’s worth, I’ve been driving 32 years and never had this problem on any car.

 

Cheers all 😊

Edited 5 June, 2019 by mdbirtles

[ScoutCJB]

Not been washing your car when the brakes are hot?

[KenONeill]

@Kenai @flybynite - Well, I know where the pads are, and how to change them, but would still struggle to diagnose pad deposits on the discs, because I've never knowingly seen it happen.

[Guest]

I haven't read about many problems with warpped discs on VAG so unlikely it's a manufacturing defect, but regularly changing discs because they're warpped is not unheard of.

 

It happened to me starting in 2003. We went thru a set of discs every annual service, but it was a common problem with Volvo - they used poor quality discs.  All under warranty so didn't bother me but one garage claimed they wanted me to pay for new pads (because it's a consumable item) even though they were in near new condition. They claimed they were not allowed to change the discs without using a new set of pads.

 

Short story is they also paid for the pads in the end. 

 

Was the OP charged for new pads each time the discs were renewed? 

[classic]

On 03/06/2019 at 13:23, mdbirtles said:

Hi,

 

thanks for your reply.

Most helpful.

 

Just wondering why when the pads and discs are changed that everything calms down ?

it usually takes about 3 weeks approx for the symptoms to come back again.

 

Cheers 👍

 

I would be checking the run out of the hubs with the discs removed, and making sure there isn’t a sticking pad or calliper. There must be something out of line or it’s got a dragging brake that’s overheating and/or unevenly wearing one or both discs.

 

[mdbirtles]

Yes, 

 

I mentioned the disc run out to them and i’ve asked them to check it next week.

I’ll pass on this information to them and get them to check the run out of the hubs too.

i’d be Inclined to agree with you, something MUST be out of line.

 

Cheers 👍

Edited 5 June, 2019 by mdbirtles

[steved83]

Exactly the same issue on my old Leon. First discs and pads changed at 50k then every 3-4k they would 'warp. Went through 5 sets from cheap to OEM to higher quality items. 

 

Was sure it wasn't my style of driving as through my work would drive 15/20 different cars repeatedly all with new brakes and no issues.

 

In the end it came down to hubs. Replaced and no issues. Think it came down to the hubs being out by only a few mm but the knock on effect was greater.

 

I never caused any front end damage and the previous owner couldn't of as I picked it up on 21k and changed at 50k without issues.

[HotVRs]

I had something similar (though not as severe) on an Astra a good few years back. Front disks kept warping, without heavy braking and I went through about 3 sets in less than 10,000 miles. I was using upgraded disks and pads and so went back to standard, and I heavily cleaned up the hub-disk interface points with a wire brush. It went away then.

[mdbirtles]

Hello all,

 

so.....the dealer has had the car 2 weeks and can find nothing wrong at all.

 

So I’ve had no choice but to escalate the issue to Skoda UK to see what they can do.

 

I also have an oil leak coming from somewhere between the diff and the gearbox.

Mileage is only 32k and 18 months old, so plenty of warranty left.

Again., it’s been in to them a few times and it’s either leaking too much to see where it’s coming from, or too little to see where it’s coming from.

 

When it’s leaked too much they have wiped it all off and sent me on my way and asked me to come back when I’ve done 500 miles.

I do this and then when they inspect it again it hasn’t leaked enough.

Skoda UK have been informed about the leak too.

 

Dealer doesn’t seem too interested.

Absolute rubbish.

 

Cheers

[silver1011]

You've done the right thing involving Skoda UK.

 

Time to try a different dealer.

 

What did the original dealer say they'd checked / tested in the two weeks they'd had the car?

[mdbirtles]

Never bothered asking as it was obvious that I wasn’t going to accomplish what I’d hoped for.

Just smile and walked away.

Either that or just go absolutely mental lol

[themanwithnoaim]

On 28/06/2019 at 00:29, mdbirtles said:

 

Either that or just go absolutely mental lol

Oh what a missed opportunity 

 

I just Fn love throwing ALL my toys outta my pram in public, kinda takes me back to my childhood