Fuel Leak!

[Eeeekkk]

My 3 year old just out of warranty Fabia had to be towed this morning due to petrol pouring out of the holes in the undertray! Lucky I stopped before the car got hot or it could've been nasty.

 

Garage said the injector seal had gone because the injector bolt had snapped and so it was moving around. Anyone else had anything like this? Not what I expect from a fairly young car.

[rum4mo]

Oh bother bother, which engine is in that car?

 

Edit:- gulp, I've just checked your previous postings and its a 1.2TSI 110PS, just like my wife's Polo, nice!!

Edited 21 June, 2019 by rum4mo

[FabiaGonzales]

4 hours ago, rum4mo said:

engine

 

[rum4mo]

35 minutes ago, FabiaGonzales said:

 

 

Eh?

[FabiaGonzales]

17 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

 

Eh?

 

Not sure myself to be honest!

 

Looking about quickly on google finds just Mercedes CDI engines with snapped injector bolts, no VAG except for lone a random Audi Q7 3.0 TDI.

 

Nothing on a petrol at all that i could find easily..

 

Edit: Injector seal wouldn't leak that much fuel though, my bet is that it's pushed back out of its hole and damaged/disconnected a fuel line (or maybe even a return line if it has one)

Edited 21 June, 2019 by FabiaGonzales

[rum4mo]

Either way, this does not sound like something that "you want" - though maybe that car had a chequered past?

 

Edit:- maybe the OP could confirm if he has owned it from new and if it had "any issues".

 

Another Edit:- these petrol engines are also CR so no fuel return from individual injectors I'd think, maybe some rail fuel being returned to keep the temperature down though, just a guess.

Edited 21 June, 2019 by rum4mo

[Eeeekkk]

Ex demo, picked up at about 400 miles and done about 44k of perfectly happy miles since then.

 

There was enough petrol running out to cause me serious concern when the AA man decided to start the engine for a look! 😀

 

This is where I pulled up and switched the engine straight off.

[rum4mo]

Was it a VW Group garage workshop that this car was taken into and if so, what have they said about this sort of issue, also are you planning to get a written statement from Skoda UK about this as it sounds like not an expected failure.

[Eeeekkk]

Nearest Skoda garage is fifteen miles so I took it to the local half a mile away. If I had known it was a manufacturing fault I would have called Skoda, because they have no interest in the fault now I let an independent have it.

 

I'm waiting for a manager to call me back because I wasn't satisfied with that given the potential for a very serious fire.

[rum4mo]

Bother, you did what you needed to do to get this sorted out quickly and get back on the road, and now Skoda have cut themselves loose from this individual issue!

 

In the early days of the front wheel drive Ford Escorts, I checked over 3 cars in a big Ford dealer's stock that were newish but used, I found a common chaffing issue with the N/S and maybe even the O/S rear brake flexy lines fouling an adjacent bit of metalwork on suspension compression - the dealer was not interested in the slightest as if these pipes failed within warranty they would get replaced FOC so they were not interested in what I had spotted that day, that annoyed me, but as their price for their demo 1.6 Ghia 5door when it was being released for sale was crazy, I just bought a new car from another Ford dealer with good no trade in discount, and sold my previous car privately, the rear brake flexy on that car was slightly different so never gat chaffed - why Ford did not recall these early models and sort them out on safety grounds beats me.

[nbramwel]

On 23/06/2019 at 11:57, rum4mo said:

 why Ford did not recall these early models and sort them out on safety grounds beats me. 

 

Because they are only interested in money and nothing else.

[Eeeekkk]

Of course no-one ever called me back!

[Eeeekkk]

Finally rang me today. Just to repeat exactly what the last person told me. Apparently their mechanics are specially trained and able to do diagnostics, and my perfectly well trained mechanic who is putting it in writing that it was a component failure isn't good enough for them. I told them no amount of diagnostics can see a broken bolt, but no.

 

Small claims court it is then.

[rum4mo]

For a random unexpected failure like this especially one that prompted a petrol fuel leak high up on the engine, Skoda UK don't seem to be taking this in the manner that you might expect of them, maybe if you could have taken ownership of the remains of the sheared/broken bolt, then that might have helped and given them material to physically check to see if they could work out the possible failure mode - but maybe the repairing workshop needed to drill the shank of the bolt out?  Did that workshop fit a genuine Skoda replacement bolt, of just use one of the correct type that was lying around - I'm just asking as that will be their next moan, ie using not correct parts!

[Eeeekkk]

Apparently there is a proper VW kit for fixing this particular problem... suspicious! Which is what my garage purchased to do the job. I don't have the bolt but they are writing me a letter.

[Eeeekkk]

They said out of warranty goodwill is offered by their retailers. So basically if you use your legal right to have your car looked after outside the dealer network, you're screwed because why would they need to keep you happy? Other than the distance, I've not found a dealer round here I'd trust with my car!

[rum4mo]

For this sort of issue, the availability of a kit to sort that out, and no recall from the manufacturer, does nothing for me wrt VW Group's attitude to customer safety - or the safety of anyone near them.

 

If there really is a kit available and being stocked, to sort this out, and VW Group are not alerting customers, then maybe chatting to one of these consumer watchdogs might either clarify things or cause VW Group a bit more public humiliation, which is what they need if they can not be bothered to behave?

 

Edit:- I'd think that a few DIYer owners might be happy if you could let us know what the kit of bolts etc part number is, I for one would be up for meeting that potential problem on head on before, or if it causes me or my wife a problem, and I'd put up with absorbing the small cost to avoid needing to cross the threshold of my local VW dealership. Air filter changing time coming up so I could attend to that both tasks at the same time.

Edited 28 June, 2019 by rum4mo

[FabiaGonzales]

19 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

For this sort of issue, the availability of a kit to sort that out, and no recall from the manufacturer, does nothing for me wrt VW Group's attitude to customer safety - or the safety of anyone near them.

 

If there really is a kit available and being stocked, to sort this out, and VW Group are not alerting customers, then maybe chatting to one of these consumer watchdogs might either clarify things or cause VW Group a bit more public humiliation, which is what they need if they can not be bothered to behave?

 

The "repair kit" if there is such thing, is most likely for diesels, where this seems to happen normally (i dont mean it's common, i just mean that i could not find any report of a petrol engined car having a snapped injector bolt - only diesels).

 

These 1.2 TSIs are Direct injected, with direct injected engines the injectors are subject to the compression of the cylinder, which is actually quite low on a TSI. Diesels in comparison run very high compression ratios, so i can see why snapped bolts can happen there.

 

Just because a kit exists for something doesn't mean there's a known fault. When my gearbox failed they had a special kit in order to be able to strip it down to investigate, that doesn't mean that it's a common issue.

 

Not defending them for their actions but jumping to conclusions because of the possibility of a kit existing.

If i find a fault, i generally try and explore all the possible things i can check myself to narrow it down before taking it to the garage, that way it spends less time, i can tell them all the symptoms, what does and doesnt reproduce the problem etc.

 

edit: posted early by accident.

 

All in all, random unrelated problems happen, i had the 5th gear synchromesh slowly disintegrate and eventually cause bearings to fail and vibrate badly, OP had an injector bolt fail and pour fuel all over the engine bay, somebody else will have had a spring on their suspension break for no reason. My ex partners cousin had 3 different cars go up in flames for 3 different reasons within a year!

 

If theres something that there's even a slightest chance of it going wrong, for someone it will go wrong. In the UK we call it "Sod's Law" lol

Edited 28 June, 2019 by FabiaGonzales

[rum4mo]

I don't agree with much of that when taken in the context of the OP having petrol running out of the bottom of the engine compartment!

 

Most people know that these engines are GDI and most people know that DERV DI engines run at very high cylinder pressures, but this issue does not sound like a one in million/thousand and if there is a kit of probably higher grade bolts out there to stop this happening, as I said, I'll try to buy them and fit them and so this problem will not happen to my family.

 

This sort of thing is entirely different to possible tolerance issues with gearbox build or road springs breaking - which might improve if the lower VW marques change to "plastic" springs - this sounds like trouble and I'm treating it as such as it will not cause me much grief to buy the kit if it exists and fit it.

 

As for lack of reports about this, there are many issues that take time to appear, so plenty time for this one to simmer before anyone takes an interest in it.

 

Smaller and less significant issues like the EVAP tubing causing weird noises, was never officially addressed by at least VW UK I discovered it and was annoyed, then someone in Sweden I think, got his Fabia booked in to sort it, that prompted me to mention it when my wife's car was in for a service, I got blanked, I pushed harder, then the service people investigated and VW provided them with an upgraded pipe 10 days later, and that sorted that out - VW Group dumped that older pipe design soon after that engine was built, so they knew that there was an issue, but just ran out the old stock through the production lines before implementing that change.

 

Ignore the potential for very high pressure petrol line ruptures at your peril, this is now a known possibility!

[rum4mo]

It could be that these injectors are just clamped into place by the high pressure fuel rail, using 4 M6 X 16mm bolts, if so that area is quite compact and robust so should not be snapping bolts if designed/assembled correctly, my initial concern was that a previous service had "caused" someone to maybe lever against that high pressure fuel rail, maybe to assist with removing the air cleaner, I've not done that job yet so I'm just guessing wildly, but it is a convenient area for that to have happened.

[FabiaGonzales]

1 hour ago, rum4mo said:

It could be that these injectors are just clamped into place by the high pressure fuel rail, using 4 M6 X 16mm bolts, if so that area is quite compact and robust so should not be snapping bolts if designed/assembled correctly, my initial concern was that a previous service had "caused" someone to maybe lever against that high pressure fuel rail, maybe to assist with removing the air cleaner, I've not done that job yet so I'm just guessing wildly, but it is a convenient area for that to have happened.

 

These engines run a 10.5:1 compression ratio. Direct injection with a high pressure fuel rail.

  

 

Looks like the injectors sit right under the intake holes in the head,

 

Right underneath and well protected by the intake "manifold", 

 

[rum4mo]

So basically well protected from servicing abuse, the plot thickens!

[Tech1e]

I am 99% sure Skoda UK would be interested in the issue even if the dealer isn't. They take fuel leaks (especially petrol ones) very seriously.

Edited 28 June, 2019 by Tech1e

[Eeeekkk]

It's Skoda I spoke to, I didn't go to the dealer. They didn't care. Not got the invoice to hand to see if the kit is mentioned, but the letter I picked up yesterday says two out of the four bolts which hold the injector rail in place were snapped.

[rum4mo]

I think that you need to chat to Skoda UK again about this, in the manner of "this" has happened to my car and I consider it a safety issue for others, what do you plan to do about this,  in fact, write out a formal letter and send it "tracked" to Skoda UK, check that it has arrived then give them up to 10 days to respond before approaching your local Citizen's Advice Centre with a copy of this letter and proof of delivery, this should not be the way that any product manufacturer's importer should be treating this kind of issue.

 

I've discussed  a safety related issue with VW UK in the past and they have refused to give a telephone response and so have contacted me by letter, once you get this reply you can work out what to do next. In my case, it was serious unpredictable braking performance in cold wet salty road situations, their answer was, all manufacturers are having similar issues, newer cars have been fitted with optimised friction materials so this known problem has been dealt with - so that kind of sums up, to me, how much VW Group is interested in the safety of operating cars they are passing out of their factories.  There was a finishing disclaimer which stated that all motorists should always prepare the brakes for use just before they plan to use them - does that seem to cover any/all driving situations?

 

Edit:- sorry missed the most important bit out, as suggested many times by a certain member of this forum - always make sure that you ask the name of the person that you have been passed on to and their function within the organisation, that helps a lot if you need to take this further!

Edited 29 June, 2019 by rum4mo