Hey guys, i've currently got summer tyres all round (Michelin Energy Savers) - on 4-5~mm tread.

 

Coming into winter, the past 4 winters i've had winter tyres and found the grip in my previous car to be phenomenal in the cold and wet, and the snow when it came. Swapping to a now 4x4 heavier vehicle, i'm unsure whether to stick with the summers, swap the summers for all seasons, or seek out a set of older alloys and fit these with winter tyres (storage may be the only issue). My journeys generally consist of urban and extra-urban roads, village roads that may / may not be cleared, and previously (in my first car with summer tyres) a major A road that had not been cleared at 3am - that was FUN!). Varying degree of hills, but the worst one (not on a daily, more weekly commute) is about a 16 degree gradient.

 

For an all season tyre i'd be looking at the Michelin CrossClimate+ as the reviews are outstanding. I can get a set fitted for £270.

To fit winter tyres to a spare set of alloys (16" ideally so I can still use my snow chains) i'd be looking at about £220 for tyres fitted (derating speed to H) and am finding alloy sets for ~£50-60 that are slightly kerbed/scuffed (but could work on these a bit before putting the new tyres on them). I'd then have to sweet talk family into letting me borrow a corner of a garage to store the other set of wheels.

 

What would other people do? Anyone know the going price for a 4-5mm tread Michelin tyre? 😛

Edited 16 September, 20196 yr by micro

When I eventually get a new set of 19" alloys to use as summer wheels, I'm looking at throwing a set of cross climates on my existing 18's. If you could be sure of the snow, winter tyres may be better, however I've seen a few reviews of the CC's and they appear to cope very well. But if it's so dodgy round your way you need snow chains, then you may benefit more from the winters.

 

I wouldn't run winters all year round though. If you do the mileage, swapping between summer and winter tyres wouldn't be too bad, but if you don't, swapping them several times over several times will weaken the bead.

4 minutes ago, tunedude said:

When I eventually get a new set of 19" alloys to use as summer wheels, I'm looking at throwing a set of cross climates on my existing 18's. If you could be sure of the snow, winter tyres may be better, however I've seen a few reviews of the CC's and they appear to cope very well. But if it's so dodgy round your way you need snow chains, then you may benefit more from the winters.

 

I wouldn't run winters all year round though. If you do the mileage, swapping between summer and winter tyres wouldn't be too bad, but if you don't, swapping them several times over several times will weaken the bead.

 

The chains were bought for my previous car (FWD). they're nothing special just a £20 jobby, i'd try and keep 16" winter tyres so that I can use those if i need to - maybe travelling europe   You can only use snow chains on specific alloy / tyre size combinations according to the owners manual.

I wouldn't swap tyres again, did that before, you get to the price of a used set of alloys in 2 swaps.

Edited 17 September, 20196 yr by micro

It really depends on where you live.

Do you drive in City or country 

Are your normal roads treated or unsalted 

Are there any hills

What altitude do you live at

 

Cross Climate are very suitable all year unless you live in a hilly area or up in the hills from Pennines northwards, if so then you probably need a set of winter tyres.

 

Also look at Goodyear Vector all Season Gen 2 and Continental all season contact as alternatives.  

 

If you have an obscure tyre size then Vredestein Quatrac (5 or Pro) are also good choice of all season

 

 

If it were me I would be looking at getting all seasons with some chains that would fit.  The all year round water shedding with the bent on winter ability combined with 4x4 would be a tough vehicle to beat.

 

The only thing that you need to think about is the mileage.  If doing more than 12-15k then think about using 2 sets as you'll benefit from the better fuel consumption.

As per other responses, depends upon your personal circumstances.

 

From personal experience, cross climates were fine when used in cold and wet autobahn in Northern Germany; however, when I had to use them on untreated roads, especially in Southern Germany / Alps they would get you out of trouble, but will lose grip quite easily in conditions where winter tyres would navigate up slopes and around corners with no loss of traction. On steeper inclines in the Alps I had to chain-up, whereas others with winter tyres were able to drive unimpeded.  The only consideration with chaining up, especially in UK, is how confident would you be exposed on the side of the road fitting them whilst other drivers not taking the same precautions are sliding about around you.

 

My current vehicle has 19” 235mm width low profile summer tyres and 4x4 - I collected it mid-winter so didn’t bother fitting the winter tyres/wheels. It was ok in the 2-3” snow on the short sections of untreated slopes, in N.Yorks, Co. Durham, but will definitely fit my winter tyres/wheels this year.

 

The cross climates definitely fall into the category mid-way between summers and winters; jack of all, master of none!

Edited 17 September, 20196 yr by Black_Sheep

Trying to decide which tyres to get too. 

 

Can't decide between Primacy 4 and Crossclimate+. 

 

Live in Plymouth, so lots of rain and very rarely snow. Leaning towards Primacy 4 ATM

I've been using Vredestein Quatrac5 for a year. I'm in the southern Pennines. They feel fine and quiet  for my driving patterns and I get around 54mpg on long motorway runs at the legal limit. I'd recommend them as winter insurance and for all year round.. I confess I never drove in the snow and just once on ice.

Edited 17 September, 20196 yr by gregoir

9 hours ago, micro said:

What would other people do?

 

As said above, you need to look at what driving you do, where you are, what time of day and do you 'have' to get places if weather is bad.

 

Realistically with a 4x4 on a set of modern all-seasons like the Michelin, Goodyear or Continental mentioned above, it would get most places in most conditions.  H rated tyres are listed as permissable for the 1.6 TDi in all sizes below 18" as standard anyway.

 

Chains are unlikely to make a difference, especially on full winters. It is likely to be ground clearance that stops you in bad weather before the winters do. it is not a Land Rover. If you are bottomed out chains will not help unless it is a chain betwen your towing eye and the aforementioned Land Rover .

 

Modern winter tyres work better standard width anyway

 

Personally I find all-seasons OK in the winter but not very good in the summer, so I swap between full winters and summers on most things I have. I have not found the limits of the TS860 full winters yet, or thankfully the limit of the Octy standard ground clearance. But if it is that bad I use the Land Rover 

 

3 hours ago, Black_Sheep said:

On steeper inclines in the Alps I had to chain-up, whereas others with winter tyres were able to drive unimpeded.  The only consideration with chaining up, especially in UK, is how confident would you be exposed on the side of the road fitting them whilst other drivers not taking the same precautions are sliding about around you.

 

The cross climates definitely fall into the category mid-way between summers and winters; jack of all, master of none!

I have considered driving into europe and maybe up to that location, but it's not a definite. I have experience of working on the hard shoulder of a live motorway so not too fazed.

 

 

30 minutes ago, flybynite said:

 

As said above, you need to look at what driving you do, where you are, what time of day and do you 'have' to get places if weather is bad.

 

Chains are unlikely to make a difference, especially on full winters. It is likely to be ground clearance that stops you in bad weather before the winters do. it is not a Land Rover. If you are bottomed out chains will not help unless it is a chain betwen your towing eye and the aforementioned Land Rover .

 

 

I have to get to work - but they're all proper surfaced roads between mine and work. No off roading or any of that kind of thing. I'd have bought a Land Rover but needed the fuel economy 😛

 

3 hours ago, MarkyG82 said:

If it were me I would be looking at getting all seasons with some chains that would fit.  The all year round water shedding with the bent on winter ability combined with 4x4 would be a tough vehicle to beat.

 

The only thing that you need to think about is the mileage.  If doing more than 12-15k then think about using 2 sets as you'll benefit from the better fuel consumption.

 

Do about 10-11k per year, currently getting 50~mpg over the past 500 miles from the Energy Savers. I am leaning towards getting the CrossClimate+'s fitted in all honesty.

I did the Summer/Winter swap for nearly 15 years. I often drive through the peak district in winter.

 

But our last two Octavia's had Cross Climates on one and Goodyear Vector 4 Season Gen 2's on the other.

 

The Cross Climates are as good as any standard summer tyre  for a run of the mill Octavia on 16's or 17's . I didn't notice any drop off in Summer performance. For winter they are good enough to prevent you getting stuck as long as you have ground clearance and for the OP with a 4x4 traction on snow will not be an issue. Where they do fall short is ultimate grip on compact frozen snow and ice, the lack of sipes show here and they don't give you as much confidence as a full winter on these surfaces.

The Goodyears Vector 4 Season Gen 2 are a little more winter biased. In fact I didn't notice much difference between these and my previous Pirelli Sottozero winters on snow and ice. In the hottest days of summer you may notice a little less turn in bite but on a regular Octavia and certainly on a 1.6TDi nothing that you'd really notice.

 

Lee

maybe this'll helpa little if you haven't seen it already...

 

 

Bridgestone A005 tread blocks have sipes, I use all year round, coming up to 18 month now, and find very good in the summer and heavy rain. Not used in icy conditions yet as living in the foot hills of winter hill / Pendle the weather hasn't been that bad.

Edited 17 September, 20196 yr by Kenrw8

How much snow are you anticipating encountering?

I live down south and tbh we rarely see anything significant, maybe a week of snow every few years.  Certainly not enough to justify a tyre choice.  Stick to gritted roads and it you don't even notice anyway.

 

The main thing I've found over the last decade of 200bhp+ fwd driving is that once the temperature drops the grip fades, this is due to the rubber compound in summer tyres going too hard below 7°c I believe.

 

I seriously considered getting some crossclimates last time on my Accord but tbh the sacrifice for the rest of the year was just too much.  I also considered winter tyres but again, they're pretty poor for most of the year, esp with rising temps and they also wear out very quick.

 

I therefore concluded a decent set of summer tyres and an ability to not drive beyond the safe limits when it does get very cold or snowy is the best bet.  

I also made sure I got the octavia with the VAQ differential to help it actually get a bit of grip.

 

The thing is, most people just drive on summer tyres.  The little granny down the road hasn't got a set of winter tyres in her garage for her Hyundai i10.  She's not spinning out all winter.

If you have 4x4 I'd say it's even less necessary.

 

I appreciate that people who live in the sticks miles away from salted roads have a different requirement, but if you're urban/extra urban, in england, then I think a decent set of summers, with good water distribution and an awareness of the driving conditions is sufficient for most people.

 

I do however always buy decent tyres.  I'm presently running a combination of Michellin PS4s, Goodyear Eagle F1 Assym 3s and Continental PremiumContact6s across our 3 cars.  The Michellins and the Continentals beat the Goodyears in the winter in my opinion. 

If I had to, I'd go crossclimates though.  WInter just seems OTT for england.

 

1 hour ago, Alex-W said:

How much snow are you anticipating encountering?

 

The thing is, most people just drive on summer tyres.  The little granny down the road hasn't got a set of winter tyres in her garage for her Hyundai i10.  She's not spinning out all winter.

 

WInter just seems OTT for england.

 

 

It's not just about snow though is it? As you said yourself, when the temperature drops to below 7'c, summer tyres just don't have the grip of winter tyres, so in an emergancy situation, the little granny down the road would have been glad her son insisted he fitted her winters.

 

I live in near Plymouth (Ivybridge) where is rarely snows and put a set of Goodyears on steel rims on from November through till March. It also makes the summer tyres last longer which is a bonus.

 

Nick

2 hours ago, logiclee said:

The Cross Climates are as good as any standard summer tyre  for a run of the mill Octavia on 16's or 17's . I didn't notice any drop off in Summer performance.

 

I have to admit I do notice a huge difference when I put summers back on. To the extent I put summers on the car that has Goodyear Vector 4S G2.

 

Have not tried the latest Crossclimate+ but neither the previous crossclimate or the Vector G2 are a patch on the Pilot Sport 4 or Continental Sport Contact I use for summer.

 

All seasons have made huge improvements in recent years and for some cars/situations/people it is all they will ever need. Good though they are they are not there yet, still a compromise both ends.

 

1 hour ago, Alex-W said:

WInter just seems OTT for england.

 

As @NikTheGeek above, we are talking about WINTER tyres not snow tyres. Good in snow but made for cold tarmac. One frosty morning on an untreated road is all it takes to prove their worth.

1 hour ago, Alex-W said:

 

I appreciate that people who live in the sticks miles away from salted roads have a different requirement, but if you're urban/extra urban, in england, then I think a decent set of summers, with good water distribution and an awareness of the driving conditions is sufficient for most people.

 

I do however always buy decent tyres.  I'm presently running a combination of Michellin PS4s, Goodyear Eagle F1 Assym 3s and Continental PremiumContact6s across our 3 cars.  The Michellins and the Continentals beat the Goodyears in the winter in my opinion. 

If I had to, I'd go crossclimates though.  WInter just seems OTT for england.

 

 

It's not just the snow though, the temperature as you said affects the grip the tyre provides.

 

Having driven in both summer and winter tyres through adverse and cold weather I personally notice a difference in grip offered even just in the cold and wet weather. Take those summer tyres onto snow and a vast difference in grip especially in corners and changing speed is noticeable.

 

The video was good, CrossClimates+ are used a lot by some businesses talking to a friend who works at ATS which is why I was thinking them, although the Goodyears look maybe a more suitable tyre for the more wettish weather we get here in old Britain. I like to think I drive fairly hard, but as pointed out, it's a 1.6 diesel, not a VRS 😁 I drove around the last two years on my Focus on winter tyres (not worth changing, manufactured 50th week 2012 so old) through summer and yes the corner handling takes a bit of getting used to!

Edited 17 September, 20196 yr by micro

@NikTheGeek

Temperatures are below 5*oC now night time and morning in places in Scotland.

People are not sliding off the road with their Summer Tyres on, well not because of the tyres, maybe their driving.

 

Another month till the winter spec fuel gets delivered to filling stations as well.

The thing that was swinging me away from the Crossclimates and towards the Primacy was the B rain rating on the Crossclimates as opposed to an A.

 

We get a lot of rain in Plymouth. 😭

What surprises me is 'Ratings on Tyres'  you get to know when you use tyres just how rubbish ratings can be.

CrossClimates are pretty damn good on very wet roads.

 

Obviously width of tyres, weight of vehicles makes a difference, but in the past year i have tried a few EV's and why TF they come with Michelin Primacy i do not know.

Well actually i do, ECO for WLTP .

Less grip, less friction, less traction. Less safe.

 

As much as i dislike Michelin Dundee closing and job losses because the demand for smaller tyres has dropped, or so they say, actually 'Primacy' tyres must have a lot to do with it.

 

@micro

Did your mate tell you that Michelin own ATS Euromaster, and Blackcircles?

I get my tyres fitted at ATS Euromaster, sometimes i buy at Blackcircles and have them delivered to ATS Euromaster,

as i do with my CrossClimate as cheaper at BlackCircle than the computer / staff at ATS Euromaster can give me.

 

Edited 17 September, 20196 yr by Roottootemoot

7 minutes ago, Roottootemoot said:

 

@micro

Did your mate tell you that Michelin own ATS Euromaster, and Blackcircles?

 

No I never knew that! I wonder if that has anything to do with it 😆

Actually, they often recommend Avon tyres, and there are some good ones from them and at good prices.

I used to use TIGAR Tyres fitted at ATS, that company is owned by Michelin as well.  Summers and Winters.

Edited 17 September, 20196 yr by Roottootemoot

Personally I would save a few quid and stick with the one set of all seasons. If things get really tough use chains (or perhaps snow socks in a pinch). I have used vredestein quatracs for years and years on numerous cars (just traded in my old citroen grand Picasso which had 5's on it) typically found the quatracs performed very well in all conditions with no real discernable difference to other mid range branded full winter tyres when used in tricky conditions. Live near John o'groats so we can have quite mild winters or shockers. (personally I have always been rather underwhelmed by Michelins for the price). Currently have the dilemma of what all seasons to put on my Kodiaq, not much choice/stock availability in the 235/45 r 20 size. 

2 hours ago, Neptune46 said:

The thing that was swinging me away from the Crossclimates and towards the Primacy was the B rain rating on the Crossclimates as opposed to an A.

 

We get a lot of rain in Plymouth. 😭

The Bridgestone A005 have an A rating

15 minutes ago, Kenrw8 said:

The Bridgestone A005 have an A rating

 

I think I've settled on the Crossclimates.