16th Nov 2019 Rolling Road Day @ JKM Portsmouth

[shyVRS245]

2 hours ago, themanwithnoaim said:

22nd & last the freshly mapped C63

Not too shabby for a 6.2V8 naturally aspirated engine.

[mdk1]

Was a good day, thanks for organising.

[Lkim13]

Thanks for running today Tony even if I cried all the way home 😂

If anyone is interested TH performance in Havant have offered 2nd opinions for anyone not happy with their figures today like moi lol 

[Gaz0809]

2 hours ago, Lkim13 said:

Thanks for running today Tony even if I cried all the way home 😂

If anyone is interested TH performance in Havant have offered 2nd opinions for anyone not happy with their figures today like moi lol 

I’d be interested ! 

[AndrewE]

2 hours ago, Lkim13 said:

Thanks for running today Tony even if I cried all the way home 😂

If anyone is interested TH performance in Havant have offered 2nd opinions for anyone not happy with their figures today like moi lol 

I was 48 bhp down on what I last had on a dyno when mapped! I'm crying inside. I know I had my winter tyres on, but everyone seemed lower than expected. They even stated all remaps over the last 2 weeks have been off!

[jjc]

Dyno runs and modern electronic modules do not go together 😞 

Car took its ball back and most functions decided not to play

All good after I reset all the DTCs

 

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 0010
05-Acc/Start Auth. -- Status: OK 0000
06-Seat Mem. Pass -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: Malfunction 0010
13-Auto Dist. Reg -- Status: Malfunction 0010
14-Susp. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: Malfunction 0010
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
2B-Steer. Col. Lock -- Status: Malfunction 0010
36-Seat Mem. Drvr -- Status: OK 0000
3C-Lane Change -- Status: Malfunction 0010
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: Malfunction 0010
47-Sound System -- Status: OK 0000
4B-Multifunc. Module -- Status: Malfunction 0010
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
5F-Information Electr. -- Status: OK 0000
6C-Back-up Cam. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
6D-Trunk Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
75-Telematics -- Status: OK 0000
A5-Frt Sens. Drv. Assist -- Status: Malfunction 0010
BB-Door Rear Drv -- Status: OK 0000
BC-Door Rear Pass -- Status: OK 0000

 

John 🙂 

[jjc]

Adam,

 

could you send me your email in a PM as the one you gave me has a character I am not sure of

Your plate ends in HRZ

 

John

[Chris245]

39 minutes ago, AndrewE said:

I was 48 bhp down on what I last had on a dyno when mapped! I'm crying inside. I know I had my winter tyres on, but everyone seemed lower than expected. They even stated all remaps over the last 2 weeks have been off!

Yeah the whole thing is a little odd, that everything was down on expectation, and not just buy a little, but consistently the same across all vehicles.

 

One of my theories is that as the cars are on a tilt, the weight of the front of the car is not pushing the wheels down enough onto the rollers to get a truly accurate figure. This is kinda backed up be the below...not having the weight of the car in its natural level state, “could” reduce the mass places on the drum.

 

The drum inertia settings. Most dynos have adjustable settings for drum inertia meaning you can change the weight of the roller settings. What does that matter you ask? Well the final power reading is relative to the drum inertia as the engine has to spin this mass to provide the acceleration. An assumed heavier roller will inflate the Hp readings, reducing the mass of the roller will lower the final Hp readings. 
 

I do find it a little odd that everything was under by 20-30hp, just a little to strange for my liking. I wonder if they have the inertia setting correct for cars on an angle and the vehicle weight over the axel not there when under load?

 

On mine for example, on the 4-5 times I have been on a dyno, is various states of tune and at different locations, it has always been consistent in terms of the power levels....my result today was lower than my stage one map on its own.

 

I know that JKM have a reputation as the heart brake rollers, but something is a little off given the consistency of the “offness” on the power results on the cars and I do wonder if this is the setup of the dyno itself.

Edited 22 February, 2020 by Chris245

[AndrewE]

6 minutes ago, Chris245 said:

Yeah the whole thing is a little odd, that everything was down on expectation, and not just buy a little, but consistently the same across all vehicles.

 

One of my theories is that as the cars are on a tilt, the weight of the front of the car is not pushing the wheels down enough onto the rollers to get a truly accurate figure. This is kinda backed up be the below...not having the weight of the car in its natural level state, “could” reduce the mass places on the drum.

 

The drum inertia settings. Most dynos have adjustable settings for drum inertia meaning you can change the weight of the roller settings. What does that matter you ask? Well the final power reading is relative to the drum inertia as the engine has to spin this mass to provide the acceleration. An assumed heavier roller will inflate the Hp readings, reducing the mass of the roller will lower the final Hp readings. 
 

I do find it a little odd that everything was under by 20-30hp, just a little to strange for my liking. I wonder if they have the inertia setting correct for cars on an angle and the vehicle weight over the axel not there when under load?

 

On mine for example, on the 4-5 times I have been on a dyno, is various states of tune and at different locations, it has always been consistent in terms of the power levels....my result today was lower than my stage one map on its own.

 

I know that JKM have a reputation as the heart brake rollers, but something is a little off given the consistency of the “offness” on the power results on the cars and I do wonder if this is the setup of the dyno itself.

Last time I had the dtuk tuning box and it came in at 292bhp, I've since had a remap switch is so much stronger but only came in 2bhp more. I know I had my winter tyres on but it wont make that much difference. 

[Updown789]

If this is the case then I'm assuming mines actually remapped then, as it made 190 and it is only a standard cr170 as far as I'm aware. Little bit strange that some other people picked up more power than they thought though, @niceyellow vrs didn't you make more with the octy?

Edited 23 February, 2020 by Updown789
Submitted half complete

[themanwithnoaim]

Right loads of you are unhappy with the numbers your cars made, I'm kinda with you too, being remapped the day prior I expected more than 11bhp gain & my "bum dyno" feels more than 11bhp increase however, my last dyno was in Oct 18 & just could have been on summer fuel.

 

JKM believes the milder recent temperatures & winter mix petrol is the reason for lower bhp & the reason they have not managed to get any car on Revo's 99ron map for last 2 or 3 weeks.

 

I've looked all over the internet & can't find much about winter petrol mix affecting performance but, theres lots of stuff about how it reduces fuel efficiency, some quote by 2%.  It's kinda logic that if efficiency is reduced then so is performance but, I don't know what correlation there is between them or if its linear, what do know is modified engines are more sensitive to fuel grades.

 

@chris245vRS thanks for your explanation of how the rollers work, the only thing I find a bit strange is that some cars runs were unaffected & with the exception of the M4, they were all diesel so, not running winter petrol. Apparently, the M4 was running older fuel so, that possible wasn't running winter petrol either. @mdmay confirmed he was 7bhp down but, seemed to have gained some torque which @Newport91 was reporting also albeit, with a diesel.

 

If you two can find & post your Oct18 printouts with this years run it'd help for comparison as some people aren't particularly happy & I think if we can get some answers, it ain't gonna make the numbers any bigger but, it'll explain them.

 

Sorry gals & guys it's the 1st dyno day I've organised so, I'm trying understand what's gone wrong, as it's meant to be fun & crying all the way home just ain't fun.

 

[niceyellow vrs]

1 hour ago, Updown789 said:

If this is the case then I'm assuming mines actually remapped then, as it made 190 and it is only a standard cr170 as far as I'm aware. Little bit strange that some other people picked up more power than they thought though, @niceyellow vrs didn't you make more with the octy?

 

Yep, both my Octavia and the MG made about the right gains over their last runs considering the upgrades they've had and the numbers relate to how they feel to drive. If they were 20 - 30hp down that'd put the MG at around 170 and the Octavia at around 250 which they definitely ain't. 

I'm happy, my gains show my efforts haven't been wasted and I've got the cars running well.

[Chris245]

Personally never heard of a winter fuel mix, no idea on this but why would there be a difference?

 

For me, my base was that C63, on a map, the M156 engine will do all day everyday everywhere 50x bhp, and to be at 483 when standard is 457, not right.

 

This is the first dyno I have ever been or seen where the cars are at an angle and not road level so to speak and I do wonder if this has an effect on the way the Engine management manages the fuel and timing etc as it detects it’s at an angle and goes into some sort of protection mode?  Just another theory.....

 

But as said before, as just about everything was 20-30bhp down on expected, it’s just a little too convenient and odd for something to not be right in the physical setup on the equipment in my opinion.  

[shyVRS245]

33 minutes ago, Chris245 said:

Personally never heard of a winter fuel mix, no idea on this but why would there be a difference?

 

For me, my base was that C63, on a map, the M156 engine will do all day everyday everywhere 50x bhp, and to be at 483 when standard is 457, not right.

 

This is the first dyno I have ever been or seen where the cars are at an angle and not road level so to speak and I do wonder if this has an effect on the way the Engine management manages the fuel and timing etc as it detects it’s at an angle and goes into some sort of protection mode?  Just another theory.....

 

But as said before, as just about everything was 20-30bhp down on expected, it’s just a little too convenient and odd for something to not be right in the physical setup on the equipment in my opinion.  

Chris you know how sophisticated the AmD rollers are and as you say they are level and can easily change from Front, Rear or 4WD drivetrains and I trust their accuracy as they have used to test race cars competing against each other to keep the playing field level. I also know how expensive their rollers are and looking at the pictures of the JKM rollers they look like something you find under the Arches in a dodgy area of London. Tony may call them the Heartbreakers but I genuinely believe they are not very accurate and as some folks have expressed they believe they under read. The winter fuel theory is rubbish as my Superb 272 proved on the 4th February using Tesco Momentum which they recommend at AmD and my car produced 283bhp completely standard (Skoda claim 268bhp) and 359.6bhp after the remap with no modications to the intake/air filter or exhaust. All this on so called poor winter fuel. Yes I have a bigger IS38 turbo than the Mk3 Octavia Vrs245 which helps.

[themanwithnoaim]

1 hour ago, Chris245 said:

Personally never heard of a winter fuel mix, no idea on this but why would there be a difference?

 

For me, my base was that C63, on a map, the M156 engine will do all day everyday everywhere 50x bhp, and to be at 483 when standard is 457, not right.

 

This is the first dyno I have ever been or seen where the cars are at an angle and not road level so to speak and I do wonder if this has an effect on the way the Engine management manages the fuel and timing etc as it detects it’s at an angle and goes into some sort of protection mode?  Just another theory.....

 

But as said before, as just about everything was 20-30bhp down on expected, it’s just a little too convenient and odd for something to not be right in the physical setup on the equipment in my opinion.  

 

Unlead-Petrol-Specification.pdf

[M12MKD]

Was I disappoint with my run, of course it was way way down on what it should be.

 

Even accounting for the petrol and winter tyres it still didnt make sense. The chap there could tell it was holding back and expected to see atleast and 40bhp from it's setup even with the petrol issue.

 

I had previously said before going I wasnt expecting it's TRUE figures as it felt really down on power.

 

So vcds out and starting to do some scanning. There was more fault warning than non fault warnings. Boost control fault one one of them. Possibly the aftermarket DV has failed, also upon taking stuff apart the seals have failed on a few on the intake parts.

 

I'm guessing this is the cause of the problem, which I hope once I get some new parts it will resolve the issue. Would like to try again once it's fixed.

 

Anyway despite the horrible figure and weather I had a really good laugh and day with friendly like minded people. Thanks for organising this.

Edited 23 February, 2020 by M12MKD

[andy68]

Thanks to Tony for organising, JKM staff for holding the day. My little Pug GTi(completely standard) made what Peugeot claim, so I'm happy with my result. M4 & C63 sounded very nice😀. be interesting to hear if the bum dyno on the C63 feels any quicker.

[hardcorehobbit]

I'm fine with my result tbh. It's only 2 bhp down on what it showed on these rollers 2 years ago.

 

Well within statistical variance. 

[SkodaSkilly]

Thanks again tony for organising it and thanks to JKM for hosting 

TBF I’m happy with my result I got better than I expected can’t wait to fix my boost leak and see what she can really do someone needs to give Lindsey a run for her money once she’s fixed her boost leak aswell 😂 

[themanwithnoaim]

On 22/02/2020 at 16:58, shyVRS245 said:

Almost identical to my 302bhp Vrs245 stage 1 remap March 2018.

Really, how'd that happen, oh yeah cheeky little Revo stage1 the day before the dyno day, didn't tell anyone till I was asked directly whether I had a new map on the tuningbox. Replied "there's a problem with the tuningbox, it's at home"🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[themanwithnoaim]

On 22/02/2020 at 17:12, shyVRS245 said:

That's had a cheeky remap. Good figure.

I love that car, it's very well looked after by a very knowledgeable owner & maintained regardless of cost. Which is Fn awesome considering its a weekend toy, not so sure the C63 is kept to quite the same high standards or knowledge, which is understandable having met/talked with & quite frankly admired the dedication of the M4's owner.

[themanwithnoaim]

On 22/02/2020 at 12:59, themanwithnoaim said:

13th

 

 

Absolutely my favourite looking car of the entire day whilst, unhappy with what it rolled, @Gaz0809 you should be mighty proud of your car, I just have to admire anyone whom when asked why ? Answers "just cos I can" great car, great owner, sorry you didn't get the number you wanted.

[themanwithnoaim]

On 22/02/2020 at 17:10, shyVRS245 said:

Less power than an old BMW320D slightly embarrassing and not making the claimed 197bhp from Toyota.

Factory stock, run by a 24 year old whom doesn't have the 3 grand for insurance after the cost of modifying fortunately, @shyVRS245 he ain't on her to see your comments.

[shyVRS245]

41 minutes ago, themanwithnoaim said:

Really, how'd that happen, oh yeah cheeky little Revo stage1 the day before the dyno day, didn't tell anyone till I was asked directly whether I had a new map on the tuningbox. Replied "there's a problem with the tuningbox, it's at home"🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Finally you did the right thing and joined the 300+ club only 30 months late bit like the Royal Mail's Xmas cards (the ones with cash in anyway).

[shyVRS245]

30 minutes ago, themanwithnoaim said:

Factory stock, run by a 24 year old whom doesn't have the 3 grand for insurance after the cost of modifying fortunately, @shyVRS245 he ain't on her to see your comments.

Tony I was having a dig at Toyota not the owner who could sue them for not providing the advertised horses which didn't turn up as expected.