7 hours ago, farty said:

asymmetric AND directional

 

These are called sided tyres.

There is a left hand side and a right hand side tread pattern.

Very very few tyres are like this. 

 

Thanks, AG Falco

16 hours ago, Carlston said:

Once fitted correctly to the rim, asymmetric tyres can be fitted to the vehicle in any position...left or right, front or back.

 

On a twin rear wheel van the inner wheels are fitted the other way round.

So two tyres need to be fitted the other way round to the other four tyres on the vehicle.

 

Thanks, AG Falco

The 10 years of the winter driving I did in the Alps I occasionally had to drive works vans that had more grip on the front, either just snowies on the front (all season on back) or with snowies all round and needing chains. If you're gentle you can get away with it, but the limit is surpisingly low AND that's in a 90BHP van!

Being bored I tried swapping the grip to the rear instead, it meant the tail did't step out, but as you just couldn't steer or get traction (or both) it didn't help - Great fun in a car park!

 

I would never mix tyre types on a vehicle I own.

 

A good laugh is seeing a RWD with just one set of chains and them trying each end (neither really works) - but occasionally I would be behind them and then it's no fun so I'd throw a spare (usually discarded) set of chains on the opposite end so they could having steering and have power, I'd collect the chains from their accomodation and €20, or get €100 if they kept them. Always retighten chains after a few yards unless they're very posh ratchet chains - rubber band type do work but only if tightened.

 

I've used snow chains once. We drove across to Germany once in our old Peugeot 306 1.9 D. This was way before I even knew about winter tyres.

 

Got to the families house and they live up a steep private road and we couldn't get up the hill so stuck the snow chains on.

 

The next day we booked an appointment locally and had winter tyres fitted since we were going to a ski resort a couple of days!

 

I've just bought my 4 seasons and got an appointment on 17th for them to be fitted. Can't be bothered swapping the wheels and tyres over any more. We live in a flat city and my journey to work is super easy and on a main road so we don't need super duper the best winter tyres.

On 03/10/2020 at 13:51, e-Roottoot said:

Many do do it winter after winter or all year and find that a pair of all seasons on the drive wheels of a FWD car and good tread summers on the rear will be no more dangerous than 4 Summers on all round all year.

If you drive to the conditions.  Remembering that 4 Summer tyres are pretty crap in some conditions like where there are a few days of pretty wintry weather which is all that many in the UK get if even that.

 

This might have worked, but is a bit like the face masks and Coronavirus thinking it prevents cross infection. It gives you plenty of false confidence.

 

 

 

Edited 4 October, 20205 yr by 26DIPP

It gives you traction to get out of parking places etc the same as when you put Snow Socks to get away from being stuck, maybe switching off the TC, then removing the Snow socks and driving about with Simmer Tyres in Winter.

 

There are so many experts about something they have never actually done themselves.

Old people get old by living lots of years, maybe having started driving where all they fitted were Town & Countrys and just to the drive wheels, and a bag of sand or salt in the boot.

 

In places where there might be days or weeks of winter weather and white top roads or some years very little the people that drive in those areas tend to do what they need to to get about, and are not generally stupid if they do it winter after winter without finding a ditch or getting stuck and needing recovered.

 

 

Edited 4 October, 20205 yr by e-Roottoot

On 03/10/2020 at 16:38, Phil-E said:

I've used snow chains once. We drove across to Germany once in our old Peugeot 306 1.9 D. This was way before I even knew about winter tyres.

 

Got to the families house and they live up a steep private road and we couldn't get up the hill so stuck the snow chains on.

 

The next day we booked an appointment locally and had winter tyres fitted since we were going to a ski resort a couple of days!

 

I've just bought my 4 seasons and got an appointment on 17th for them to be fitted. Can't be bothered swapping the wheels and tyres over any more. We live in a flat city and my journey to work is super easy and on a main road so we don't need super duper the best winter tyres.

I really like that the snowy lumpy parts of Germany insist on decent tyres for the winter period (Nov - Easter?) France was a bit wishy washy, some areas demand snow tyres (no ifs or buts) but some others saying chains are enough - the number of cars that snap a loose chain and then blocked a road on a Saturday was beyond a joke in The Paradiski area. Once the plough or police got to them they got forced down the mountain but it would delay thousands of people, occasionally some would abandon and walk away and it could take the weeks holiday to find where they'd lifted the car to! €300 to get it back for some!!

They're much stricter when it comes to appropriate tyres. There's no fixed time period where you have to have winter tyres (or M&S marked all seasons) but the tyres have to be appropriate for the conditions. If it's frosty, icy or snowy then you can be fined for not having winters on (60€ I believe). And if not having the appropriate tyres on causes you to get stuck, have and accident and/or impede other traffic then fines can be quite large (plus points on your license).

 

But the general rule is O bis O (Oktober / October to Ostern / Easter).

On 04/10/2020 at 16:15, e-Roottoot said:

It gives you traction to get out of parking places etc the same as when you put Snow Socks to get away from being stuck, maybe switching off the TC, then removing the Snow socks and driving about with Simmer Tyres in Winter.

 

There are so many experts about something they have never actually done themselves.

Old people get old by living lots of years, maybe having started driving where all they fitted were Town & Countrys and just to the drive wheels, and a bag of sand or salt in the boot.

 

In places where there might be days or weeks of winter weather and white top roads or some years very little the people that drive in those areas tend to do what they need to to get about, and are not generally stupid if they do it winter after winter without finding a ditch or getting stuck and needing recovered.

 

Been there, done it. I have been caught out in snow on a motorbike a couple of times. It is doable, but neither fun nor safe and would still not recommend or sanction it.

Having the right tyres on in snow can be real fun. With the wrong tyres it is doable but you can become the passenger in the driver seat...

On 29/09/2020 at 11:42, farty said:

Don't mix all-season and 'normal' tyres.  If you have to drive in snow, the car could spin.  Goodyear all-seasons are very well reviewed.

 

All-season plus summer tyres is even worse.

 

 

Assuming your car is front wheel drive, you could put the new all season tyres on the rear and run the existing tyres on the front.

 

If it feels bad when the weather gets bad you could get a pair on the front.

 

Do not under any circumstances put summer on the rear and winter/all seasons on the front. 
(Yes you will get going, but unless you’re careful it’s very easy to lose the back end around a icy or slushy corner)

 

i used to run nokian winter tyres, but frankly their tyre support and ability to get replacements in the middle of winter wasn’t great.

 

Until their UK operation is better supported, I would have to say to stick to major brands.

 

Personally Michelin Cross climate if you’re in a warmer part of the country and Goodyear vector 4 seasons if you get or travel in more of the white stuff.

 

I still have a set of full winters and live in a warmer part of the UK, so I picked cross climates as a summer that I can keep on for longer in the autumn and get on earlier in the spring.

Edited 9 October, 20205 yr by cheezemonkhai

On 29/09/2020 at 21:00, rum4mo said:

Maybe a set of winter wheels with winter tyres for winter use if you have storage space, the need for winter type of tyres will remain for many years to come in certain areas of the country, better to do that than end up having an issue that has forced you into using winter tyres in winter, places like Mytyres.co.uk and others can supply wheels with tyres as a package at an acceptable price, then buy 2 new summer tyres just before you change back to summer wheels and tyres, I've been doing that for many years on both cars.

 

Edit:- we live in Southern Scotland and I'll admit I only started using winter tyres after conditions forced it on first my wife, then me a few years  later.

Good morn,

 

I have a set of steel wheels with good winter tyres fitted that I was planning to swap to for the coming winter. I wonder: at which point do you swap wheels? I live in the Midlands, so the weather won't be as severe as Scotland.

 

Alan

5 minutes ago, Othen said:

I have a set of steel wheels with good winter tyres fitted that I was planning to swap to for the coming winter. I wonder: at which point do you swap wheels? I live in the Midlands, so the weather won't be as severe as Scotland.

Unless there's a credible report of heavy snow, I think you should not fit winter tyres as they underperform in the wet.  Good all-season tyres are a better bet.  Do you have to drive to the far north or abroad?

33 minutes ago, farty said:

Unless there's a credible report of heavy snow, I think you should not fit winter tyres as they underperform in the wet.  Good all-season tyres are a better bet.  Do you have to drive to the far north or abroad?

 

I have always considered that the reality is, once you have been hit with heavy snow it is game over, quality winter tyres work well in the wet and cold as well as with ice and snow, ie they are NOT "just" snow tyres.

 

I always end up being lead with changing weather and plan to get the wheels changed over and summer wheels washed dried and stored away before the weather is too cold to do that job as soon as swopping tyres.

 

It is not only the far North that gets hit with low temperatures and snow in winter, elevation is also important and living and moving about near or at sea level will mean not be bothered with persistently low temperature and snow accumulations.

1 hour ago, Othen said:

Good morn,

 

I have a set of steel wheels with good winter tyres fitted that I was planning to swap to for the coming winter. I wonder: at which point do you swap wheels? I live in the Midlands, so the weather won't be as severe as Scotland.

 

Alan

 

Sorry I missed answering that question properly, I'd be considering mid to end of October as by that time the temperature will rarely get warm enough to move these winter tyres out of their temperature range, if it ever does in UK excepting "mid Summer"!

 

My plan is to never let my Summer alloys end up being driven when there is salt on the road, though I think that the Summer wheels on my wife's Polo just might have been out after salt had been laid down last week by the national roads (Bear Scotland) for some reason! A practise run?

1 hour ago, farty said:

Unless there's a credible report of heavy snow, I think you should not fit winter tyres as they underperform in the wet.  Good all-season tyres are a better bet.  Do you have to drive to the far north or abroad?

 

As has been mentioned a few times: winter tyres are not snow tyres!  In the colder half of the year I would sooner use a winter set over a summer set.  The winters generally have better water shedding capability and, as is the design, work better in lower average temps.

 

What makes you think winter tyres underperform in the wet?  I'm just trying to understand your viewpoint.  If you have genuine experience of this then It could be a location thing?

@MarkyG82

 

I should have said in the wet when it's warm.

 

"According to ADAC, the stopping distance at 100 km/h on winter tyres in the summer is sometimes 16 m longer than the same on summer tyres."  https://www.oponeo.co.uk/blog/winter-tyres-in-summer

 

and

 

"Winter tyre material becomes too soft and elastic in summer conditions, therefore, the tread would be unnaturally deformed and could easier lose the grip on the road especially when accelerating, braking, or cornering. As a consequence, braking on winter tyres will take longer, they are more likely to lose traction while accelerating and on curves (the "tyre floating" phenomenon). This effect will aggravate as the speed increases, and given good visibility and better weather conditions in the summer, drivers tend to step on the gas pedal. Winter tyres would also fail on rainy days."

 

from the same source.

 

 

Winter tyres are designed to perform better on snow!

 

I'm being argumentative, but isn't that part of any good debate?  😊

Edited 9 October, 20205 yr by farty

2 hours ago, Othen said:

Good morn,

 

I have a set of steel wheels with good winter tyres fitted that I was planning to swap to for the coming winter. I wonder: at which point do you swap wheels? I live in the Midlands, so the weather won't be as severe as Scotland.

 

Alan

You could swap them anytime in next month.

 

I use Metcheck as a guide, there is a 16 day forecast with max and min temperatures, and whilst the detail may change as get nearer each date, it is pretty good guide.

 

Winter tyres are quite happy upto +15c (and of course, can go higher, but not as good as tyres designed for higher temps).  It is unlikely to exceed +15c (except for few odd days) this side of March.  Remember they are colder weather tyres, not snow tyres, so will work better in cold rain than summer tyres.

 

Purists will say winter tyres are only better than summer tyres below +7c.   Although recent evidence suggests nearer +9c in wet and +5c in dry.

Quite simply summer tyres get harder (and thus grip less) as temperatures drop, and fall off of grip can be fairly big, even at 3 or 4c summer tyres will be much worse in the rain.

 

There is another grade of tyres, snow tyres (usually called Nordic winter tyres in Europe), used where there is 4-6 months of laying snow and temperatures can fall to -20 or -30c.   But no one in UK is likely to use these (unless you live in a Scottish mountain hut)

Edited 9 October, 20205 yr by SurreyJohn

@farty  You drive where i drive in Scotland and i might drive the same places or not, but i have had Winter & All Season tyres on cars in Summer and in the heat wave like 2012 in the North East & elsewhere were it was over 23 *oC in Feb & March before the day i was in the Snow 24 hours later.

I have the Pictures doing spirited driving around the A93 & A939, then the next day driving through snow and blizzard conditions.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-17512701

 

 

The tyres do not melt, the handing on great driving roads is not crap and if it rains the Winter / All Season tyres an be better than Summer tyres.

Scotland is not the Alps, but there can be good weather and the winter tyres can last well for a few years / thousands of miles of all year use.

Edited 9 October, 20205 yr by e-Roottoot

Astronomical winter runs from Monday, 21 December 2020  to  Saturday, 20 March 2021

 

But meteorological winter runs from 1st December to 28th (or 29th) February, so it seems a bit early to put winter tyres on!

2 hours ago, farty said:

Unless there's a credible report of heavy snow, I think you should not fit winter tyres as they underperform in the wet.  Good all-season tyres are a better bet.  Do you have to drive to the far north or abroad?

 

1 hour ago, rum4mo said:

 

I have always considered that the reality is, once you have been hit with heavy snow it is game over, quality winter tyres work well in the wet and cold as well as with ice and snow, ie they are NOT "just" snow tyres.

 

I always end up being lead with changing weather and plan to get the wheels changed over and summer wheels washed dried and stored away before the weather is too cold to do that job as soon as swopping tyres.

 

It is not only the far North that gets hit with low temperatures and snow in winter, elevation is also important and living and moving about near or at sea level will mean not be bothered with persistently low temperature and snow accumulations.

 

1 hour ago, rum4mo said:

 

Sorry I missed answering that question properly, I'd be considering mid to end of October as by that time the temperature will rarely get warm enough to move these winter tyres out of their temperature range, if it ever does in UK excepting "mid Summer"!

 

My plan is to never let my Summer alloys end up being driven when there is salt on the road, though I think that the Summer wheels on my wife's Polo just might have been out after salt had been laid down last week by the national roads (Bear Scotland) for some reason! A practise run?

 

29 minutes ago, SurreyJohn said:

You could swap them anytime in next month.

 

I use Metcheck as a guide, there is a 16 day forecast with max and min temperatures, and whilst the detail may change as get nearer each date, it is pretty good guide.

 

Winter tyres are quite happy upto +15c (and of course, can go higher, but not as good as tyres designed for higher temps).  It is unlikely to exceed +15c (except for few odd days) this side of March.  Remember they are colder weather tyres, not snow tyres, so will work better in cold rain than summer tyres.

 

Purists will say winter tyres are only better than summer tyres below +7c.   Although recent evidence suggests nearer +9c in wet and +5c in dry.

Quite simply summer tyres get harder (and thus grip less) as temperatures drop, and fall off of grip can be fairly big, even at 3 or 4c summer tyres will be much worse in the rain.

 

 

 

Many thanks chaps,

 

 Picking the bits out of those it would seem that the consensus would be to change the wheels and tyres in November, as soon as we start getting close to frost at night.

 

In previous years I've just used the 18" alloys with original specification Continental tyres all year round, and that has been a bit precarious at times (mostly in Northamptonshire and Norfolk). This year I found a set of Audi 16" steel wheels with good Yokohama winter tyres fitted in the summer, and used them for a week whilst I had the alloys refurbished and powder coated. So, I know the 16" wheels and tyres are fine, and I'd quite like to keep my pristine powder coated 18" wheels (I think they are called 'trilogy') looking that way.

 

That has been good guidance, many thanks - I'll look to swapping next month, until about March I should think.

 

Alan

 

Edited 9 October, 20205 yr by Othen
Correction.

@farty

How long have you been up in Bettyhill now and have you had winter conditions in the past couple of years?

 

PS

Plenty low temps nights and mornings south of you already this years, and some snow fall high up, and maybe some this week end on higher roads.

 

Nothing that will worry a great granny in their Audi S1 or Nissan Micra though.

 

PPS

Instead of a spare tyre in the car put in 2 all seasons or winters and if you are stuck out instead of using Snow Socks stick a pair of Tyres / wheels on till you get home.

Edited 9 October, 20205 yr by e-Roottoot

40 minutes ago, farty said:

@MarkyG82

 

I should have said in the wet when it's warm.

 

...

 

 

Winter tyres are designed to perform better on snow!

 

I'm being argumentative, but isn't that part of any good debate?  😊

 

Yes in that case you are right.  But here we are talking about using winters in the winter months.  I kept a set of winters on my mk2 octy for 24 months as I forgot to swap them out.  Heading into the second summer they were down to 3/4mm and actually performed better than the Michelin energy savers that were supposed to be the summers.  Economy dropped a bit though.

 

Also, winters are designed to perform better in snow (compared to summer/all season) but they are still not snow tyres.  They are tarmac tyres with a lean towards cold/wet/icy conditions.  They can be used in snow to better effect, but, they are still designed for use on normal roads.

 

childish warning!!:

If we take this any further will it be a mass debate?

4 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

@farty How long have you been up in Bettyhill now and have you had winter conditions in the past couple of years?

Two years ago, we house-hunted all over the Highlands and drove in some abysmal weather and thick snow.  But, having settled in Bettyhill and on the A836 we have quite mild winters and the road to Thurso is gritted and kept clear.  I'd love to get some all-seasons but had to fit new tyres in a hurry and they were not available.  The roads here are tough on my Goodyear Efficient Grips and I will have to change the rears after only 10,000 miles.  Our neighbours have seen some heavy snow here.

@farty

I have seen heavy snow as well in the furthest north of the mainland.  It is not common, or are very low temps.

Location location location and an island nation.

 

It can be colder in the Central Belt than in the far north.

 

Sometimes i pop off to the region of the North Coast 500 for a bit of spirited driving and have to remove my vest.

3 hours ago, Othen said:

Picking the bits out of those it would seem that the consensus would be to change the wheels and tyres in November, as soon as we start getting close to frost at night.

BBC South West are forecasting frost tonight (9th October) in Devon...