W or Y's on speed rating

[Mazzer]

Hi All, 

 

I bought a project vrs diesel but I've just noticed its got a slow puncture and the tyres are pretty well worn. So I wanted something cheap and there is an abundance of w rated tyres 168mph rating are these safe enough to use.....? Or do I have to go Y..? After all its not a 200+ car. 

 

Thanks for your help in advance

[langers2k]

There doesn't seem to be much price difference on black circles for W or Y rated tyres. You should check with your insurance company that they are happy for you to use the lower speed rating.

 

Given winter is pretty much here, I'd suggest getting something at least half decent as it's going to be cold and damp for a next few months...

[Mazzer]

I'll go Y's then but budget.👍

[phil08]

Having just taken budgets off my partners car a seat Leon which came with the car I would never ever advise getting them again.

 

They wore poorly, cracked very quickly and the handling was appalling!!

 

Tyres are the only thing in contact with the road surface and you should be very wary of sacrificing £50-70 for the sake of a saving by getting budget!

 

 

[meta55b]

The Diesel vrs will spin up cheap tyres at every opportunity, even in the dry. I always run Michelin premacy’s and even had the sports once, the car could still spin up with they tyres, if you got a bit excited on the rare opportunity that you had no wife or kids in the car.  

[FatblokeVRS]

Got Uniroyal Rainsport 3's on our VRS, A3 and Boxster. They are pretty good. I see there's a Rainsport 5 now but not tried them.

 

[ScoutCJB]

19 hours ago, Mazzer said:

I'll go Y's then but budget.👍

 

Hmm - -What Budget tyres are they - Things I dont scrimp on are the brakes and tyres (while appreciating we all have a budget).  I tried budgets all round about 12 years ago - 2 were replaced after 2 months as they started to crack and then 1 cracked again a few months later so i binned them all and went for Toyo's.  As for speed rating as long as it matches the original for the car thats fine, go lower and it could invalidate your insurance (should it come to it and they were looking not to pay out).

 

8 hours ago, FatblokeVRS said:

Got Uniroyal Rainsport 3's on our VRS, A3 and Boxster. They are pretty good. I see there's a Rainsport 5 now but not tried them.

 

 

Ive got Rainsport 3's on my A6 and had them on the Oct Scout 3, great tyre but wear a little quick.  I've got a set of Rainsport 5's in the garage that are going on the Wifes Cooper S tomorrow.  They are similair to the 3 other except there is an additional band/channel towards the outer edge.

 

Edited 30 September, 2020 by ScoutCJB

[Jevpls]

You don't need either W or Y because that vrs is not capable of doing that kind of speed.

Theoretically same tyres with V, W or Y at the same speed (let's say - 130 kph) would act the same.

[Mazzer]

Now thats what I'm thinking. If my diesel is going 168mph or indeed 186mph then something is wrong. What I'm also confused about is the physics of a rotating wheel whereby the axial speed is doubled at the top of the tyre and 0 at the base. So in theory say 135 top speed x2 is 270mph which neither meet. I know there will be an answer but just often made me wonder... 

[langers2k]

From Bridgestone:

Quote

 

DETERMINING TIRE SPEED RATING

Speed ratings are the product of laboratory testing – with simulated speeds and loads. To receive any kind of rating, a tire must demonstrate that it’s capable of sustaining a particular speed. Industry standards govern the process of reaching and maintaining a given speed during a test.

 

However, it’s important to remember that the lab can’t simulate every conceivable condition. Think of your tire’s speed rating as an indicator of the product’s capability under controlled conditions (i.e. fully inflated, vehicle running properly, good weather conditions). Your tires’ actual speed capability may be less than its rated speed, since it is affected by factors such as inflation, wear, vehicle condition (including alignment), driving conditions and the duration at which speed is maintained. Speed ratings do not apply to tires that have been damaged, altered, under-inflated, overloaded or repaired.

 

 

I believe the advertised top speed of a170ps TDi vRS is around 139 mph? Therefore Skoda must have decided their wasn't enough safety margin left with a V rated tyre in real world conditions and decided on Y.

 

Whilst I fully agree a lower speed rating is probably fine for most UK usage, it's not me that you need to convince, it's the insurance company

[J.R.]

The car may have left the factory with a higher rated tyre but that does not mean that subsequent tyre changes have to follow that, the only sure way is to see what tyres are homologated on the EU certificate of conformity for your vehicle, VAG are one of the few manufacturers who will supply these FOC, application is done on line and they are sent out promptly.

[Mazzer]

That's interesting I may just apply and see what they say.. It's interesting that if the letter is an indicator of the speed and the speed is a conglomerate of many other factors. Also if I buy a 150 conti and run over a nail the repair will downgrade it so if you took out tyre insurance covering only a repair are you getting a degraded product..? 

[Phil-E]

My car won't do 130mph but came from the factory with H rated tyres. They always fit higher rated tyres than the car is capable of.

 

Here in Germany they are very strict on tyres come the TÜV (MOT) and check the size, load and speed index are correct.

 

They should also technically check this all on an MOT but I know for a fact this isn't always done.

 

I've just ordered just new tyres but gone for a higher V Rating as they were strangely enough cheaper than the H rated ones.

Edited 30 September, 2020 by Phil-E

[Mazzer]

 Is there a chance within 12 years there potential that things will have improved and manufacturing has got better? I have bought infinity ecomax tyres they are Y rated and b rated wet grip. I was told rightly or wronlgy that tyre gradings are a volunteered by the manufacturers. My question here would be surely you'd say A A A to sell more....? 

 

I will 'tread' with caution but I'm always one to quiz stuff. Cracking I get is a quality issue but grip surely is a trade off over longevity I.e grip is a trade off for depositing rubber on the ground. 

 

[Camlobe]

On 30/09/2020 at 11:35, Mazzer said:

Now thats what I'm thinking. If my diesel is going 168mph or indeed 186mph then something is wrong. What I'm also confused about is the physics of a rotating wheel whereby the axial speed is doubled at the top of the tyre and 0 at the base. So in theory say 135 top speed x2 is 270mph which neither meet. I know there will be an answer but just often made me wonder... 

 

Fortunately, the speed at the top of the tyre is irrelevant. 

 

Tyres are tested at a certain rotational speed and load, and that is what is certified as 'good enough'. You may not agree with that definition of 'good enough' as at the end of a ten minute test, the tyre can have tread blocks missing, provided it has enough integrity to hold air (surely the vibration would be enough to put off any real driver in something other than a 'fast and furious' style film???)

 

Anyway, my preference is to have a tyre rated at a speed at least 10 mph higher that any max continuous speed I'm likely to use, 'cos lumps falling off the tyre isn't a good look .

 

Quote

 Is there a chance within 12 years there potential that things will have improved and manufacturing has got better? I have bought infinity ecomax tyres they are Y rated and b rated wet grip. I was told rightly or wronlgy that tyre gradings are a volunteered by the manufacturers. My question here would be surely you'd say A A A to sell more....? 

 

I will 'tread' with caution but I'm always one to quiz stuff. Cracking I get is a quality issue but grip surely is a trade off over longevity I.e grip is a trade off for depositing rubber on the ground. 

 

Tyres are improving surprisingly quickly, in my view, but still a decent top-spec, or a decent mid-range tyre will be better than a budget.

 

Up to a point grip is a trade-off over longevity, but in a recent tyre test, surprisingly, some of the best tyres for ware were the 'top of the range, grippiest' tyres. So it is probably more accurate to say wear/grip/cost are the parameters being traded off (in reality a tyre is a trade-off of about a dozen identifiable parameters, and if you really want to make a tyre look good on eleven, you'll degrade the twelfth)

 

Michelin have always been happy to do this 'our tyres last longer, without going down to zero wet grip' trick that has been beyond other tyre manufs (or at least, beyond their marketing depts to accept as a solution that anyone will pay for). These days Goodyear and Conti are pushing them close, but it should never have been a surprise that paying more could get you to a better place on the wear/grip trade-off, even if it was most often done to get more grip, and d4mn the wear.

 

If you want to save cash, if there is an acceptable option from one of the 'second brands' of the big boys, that is likely to work better than a true budget, as are some of the 'on the way up' brands - say Falken, for example.

 

Given the rate of progress, it is rarely worth, overall, buying an older design of tyre. And some of the 'odd name, Chinese' suppliers are really bad, either zero grip in the wet, or poor production control.

[Camlobe]

On 30/09/2020 at 21:47, Phil-E said:

My car won't do 130mph but came from the factory with H rated tyres. They always fit higher rated tyres than the car is capable of.

 

Here in Germany they are very strict on tyres come the TÜV (MOT) and check the size, load and speed index are correct.

 

They should also technically check this all on an MOT but I know for a fact this isn't always done.

 

I've just ordered just new tyres but gone for a higher V Rating as they were strangely enough cheaper than the H rated ones.

 

Phil, is it still the case in Germany that if you run your car on tyres lower rated than the car is capable of, that you have to have a warning notice saying so? And, while I'm sure that no one did when I was there, does the Skoda electronic pop-up notice qualify under the regs? (These days, it is really only an issue with Winter tyres and/or performance cars, as tyre speed ratings have climbed over the past ~30 years).

[Phil-E]

Yes I believe so. On the log book it states the minimum allowed size and speed rating. Sometimes this is lower than the top speed the car is capable of and so you have a little sticker on the dash with the top speed for the tyres.

 

But I believe the winter tyres warning in the dash fulfils this requirement. 

[AdoksNick]

Old thread but came up in my search for Load and Speed ratings.
From the thread, and reading on Google, that UK insurance companies might try to wriggle out of paying up if our tyres are rated below what the vehicle is spec'd with.
The handbook (well, my handbook for my 2015 2.0 DSG Scout) doesn't state which tyres spec I should fit, just that I should limit my loads and speed to suit the tyre! Not helpful!

The Specification/Options/Data sticker in the boot and in the Service Plan folder does state  'HW6', which apparently translates as "Tires 225/50 R17 94W ".
So regardless of what the previous owner fitted, I need to fit 94W as a minimum to be able to avoid any stroppy insurance issues.  I guess!

As I have a removable tow-bar fitted, I need to take that into account if I might tow anything; I never have, but like that this used car has one fitted as feels like I can slip into off-road superhero mode and save the world! 😄 Or rather drag a sorry arsed neighbour up the hill when it snows next, especially if I get the Michelin CrossClimate 2 tyres that seem to do well in this comparison https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2021-Tyre-Reviews-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm

 

[Guest]

@AdoksNick

As long as the load index equals or exceeds the manufacturer's book value 94 you will be fine, the speed rating W is irrelevant as it is well above the vehicle's top speed and you are unlikely to find a 225/50/17 in a lower rating than H (130mph), it's not practical for manufacturers to make so many variants of a tyre.

 

Load Index - Identifies maximum load capacity of a tyre when driven at maximum speed.

Speed Rating - The maximum speed that a tyre can sustain at full load.

 

H, V, W, Y and (Y) are all acceptable speed ratings as they exceed the vehicle's maximum speed.

Edited 23 August, 2022 by MicMac

[AdoksNick]

1 hour ago, MicMac said:

@AdoksNick

As long as the load index equals or exceeds the manufacturer's book value 94 you will be fine, the speed rating W is irrelevant as it is well above the vehicle's top speed and you are unlikely to find a 225/50/17 in a lower rating than H (130mph), it's not practical for manufacturers to make so many variants of a tyre.

 

Load Index - Identifies maximum load capacity of a tyre when driven at maximum speed.

Speed Rating - The maximum speed that a tyre can sustain at full load.

 

H, V, W, Y and (Y) are all acceptable speed ratings as they exceed the vehicle's maximum speed.

Many thanks @MicMac , grateful for the reply.
There seems to be a 94W and a 98Y available in the Michelin CrossClimate 2 so, agreed, it's sort of academic in my case as both meet with my original equipment spec and with my vehicle's capability, except that KwikF shows the 98Y as both cheaper (a few quid only) and more fuel efficient, so I'm getting those fitted.  Just hoping that the other benefits revealed in TyreReviews study ring true for the 98W (tests being done on the 94W).

From other readers' perspective though, who might go with cheaper, and lower spec tyres: I would advise caution toward corporations, especially financial ones such as insurers, assuming they might be inconsistent, illogical and unfair.  Thus using the VIN/OEM/Options sticker as a guide to determine what the OEM tyre was, and thus use that to spec the tyres as a minimum,  seems like a pragmatic way to make sure that an insurer can't wriggle out of coughing up in the event of a claim, nor the magistrates being less merciful in the awful worst case. The speed limit in the UK, after all, is 70mph ('L' speed rating is 75mph).
 

[Carlston]

3 hours ago, AdoksNick said:

Many thanks @MicMac , grateful for the reply.
There seems to be a 94W and a 98Y available in the Michelin CrossClimate 2 so, agreed, it's sort of academic in my case as both meet with my original equipment spec and with my vehicle's capability, except that KwikF shows the 98Y as both cheaper (a few quid only) and more fuel efficient, so I'm getting those fitted.  Just hoping that the other benefits revealed in TyreReviews study ring true for the 98W (tests being done on the 94W).

From other readers' perspective though, who might go with cheaper, and lower spec tyres: I would advise caution toward corporations, especially financial ones such as insurers, assuming they might be inconsistent, illogical and unfair.  Thus using the VIN/OEM/Options sticker as a guide to determine what the OEM tyre was, and thus use that to spec the tyres as a minimum,  seems like a pragmatic way to make sure that an insurer can't wriggle out of coughing up in the event of a claim, nor the magistrates being less merciful in the awful worst case. The speed limit in the UK, after all, is 70mph ('L' speed rating is 75mph).

 

Michelin CrossClimate 2 has the 3PMSF symbol, so is officially a winter rated tyre.

 

Winter rated tyres can have a lower speed rating than the maximum speed of the car.

 

However, that's academic with the Michelin CrossClimate 2 as 225/50R17 98V XL (Euro label B B 71dB) is the lowest speed rating for this tyre.

 

Michelin CrossClimate 2 as 225/50R17 98V XL (Euro label B B 71dB)

https://www.blackcircles.com/catalogue/michelin/crossclimate-2/225/50/R17/V/98/m?tyre=42160812

 

By using a 98Y XL in that size, you are over-specifying the tyre. This means that the tyre will be stiffer and heavier than it needs to be, resulting in a reduction in ride comfort, ie. the ride will be harder.

 

If you look at the winter tyres in size 225/50R17 that are listed on camskill, you will see that none have a speed index greater than V (240km/h, 150mph). This isn't surprising, as if you drive at 168mph or 186mph on winter tyres on a hot summer's day they are likely to overheat and fail.

 

225/50R17 winter tyres listed on camskill

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m97b0s1472p0/Winter_-_Snow_-_Cold_Weather_-_Car_MPV_Tyres_-_17_inch_R17_inch_-_225_50_17_225_50R17

 

Edited 23 August, 2022 by Carlston

[AdoksNick]

Many thanks @Carlston, much appreciated.

Seems that KwikF can only get the 94W and or 98Y, and have a 10% off deal on multiple tyre orders of the Mich CC2. But if the higher spec is cheaper, and still a decent ride compared to the market in general, then who cares if it's over spec'd?

 

However, had a couple of very interesting emails from a local race tyre specialist, https://www.motmotorsport.co.uk/ who I'm now getting to source and fit.  So he's getting me the 94W,  as he is almost as competitive as KwikF, but I'm certain is on a different level regarding knowledge and meticulousness, and has spent some time typing those emails - rather support him and use him regularly.  He explained one can adjust (increase) the pressure to get higher efficiencies if desired, for example.
So I'll have fun playing with the pressures to measure the effect on efficiency,  while knowing that I can also get the high level of comfort that my fiancé appreciates on those longer trips together by dropping the pressure back to 'standard'.  Win-win!