Help! 69 plate 1.0 TSI SE manual clutch gone after 2721 miles!!!!

[Bollcat]

Hi all,

 

I'm hoping very much that no one else has had the same issue I'm having but would really value some advice.

 

On Monday my 1.0 TSI clutch failed. It is leased and I received it on 14th December 2020. At the time the clutch failed it had 2721 miles on the clock. It was towed by the AA to a Skoda dealer under the Skoda Assistance banner. I assumed everything would be taken care of....

 

This morning I was called by the dealership to say that the clutch plate was 'burned' and that there was no manufacturing error and therefore it was caused by driver error and is not covered under warranty. I was quoted a repair bill of £1,171.48.

 

I'll be honest I was gobsmacked. In terms of background I am 48 and have been an NHS Paramedic since 1996 and hold advanced driving qualifications (inc. IAM Roadsmart Advanced Driver). My wife (who also drives the car) is also an NHS Paramedic (I won't say how long for.....) and also holds advanced driving qualifications. To put it bluntly - we both know how to drive a car. I explained our background and experience to the Skoda technician who couldn't be less interested. There was no manufacturing fault and it was driver error. I told him I would call back as I was not a happy Skoda bunny and needed some thinking time. So, I thought the situation through.

 

There were absolutely no signs of any problems at all with the vehicle (indeed I love it) . On Monday I had stopped at a set of lights, put the gear into neutral and put on the manual handbrake. The lights changed and I tried to put it into first gear. It wouldn't go in and when I tried, it made a hideous noise. Instant horn blowing from behind me so I put on the hazards. I tried again to get it into first and it went in with a 'clunk'. I released the brake gave it some gas and... nothing. The engine revved but no movement. After trying again (with more frustrated drivers behind me) the car did move but wouldn't come out of first. I was in a dangerous position at the junction and so drove it for approx 200 yards until I could pull over into a safe space. Called Skoda Assist who sent out the AA. The AA responder could smell the stench and he said the clutch had gone. The car was then towed to the dealership.

 

I've had the car for less than 6 months, it has 2721 miles on the clock (but it's not covered by the manufacturers warranty) and furthermore it's 'my' fault.

 

So, I've registered a dispute and engaged a VOSPA accredited independent vehicle inspector to attend the dealership (which has cost me £199) and instructed them not remove any parts or take any further action on the vehicle. Can someone advise me if they think there's any additional action I should do whilst I wait for the report? Is the inspection worth it?

 

Has anyone else had a similar issue and how did it pan out? I honestly can't get my head round how a) it's not covered given the mileage and length of time I've had it and b) that I'm being blamed for something I haven't done.

 

I contacted the leasing company and they completely washed their hands of any part in this and have told me it's entirely down to me and Skoda. Is that also right?

 

I'd be very grateful if anyone could give me some advice or point me in the right direction. 

 

Thanks

 

Bollcat

 

 

[Breezy_Pete]

Independent inspector sounds like an excellent move to me.

[Warrior193]

Hi BC, welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear of your problem, certainly not something you would expect so early on.

From your detailed description of the start of the problem, it rather sounds to me as if it started with failure of the clutch-release cylinder - with the clutch plate possibly 'burning out' from resultant damage to clutch diaphragm and slippage afterwards.  

[J.R.]

Have they actually removed the clutch to make that diagnosis or just sniffed under the bonnet?

 

You have done absolutely the right thing and I dont think they will have a leg to stand on when its expected, abusing a clutch once will leave a terrible smell and it will slip but the next day when cooled aside from the residual smell it will drive as good as new and go on for hundreds of thousands of miles.

 

You would have to do the above abuse consistently and regularly before the clutch failed through wear which I'm sure is not your case, indeed you didn't abuse it at all but it sounds like the release mechanism seized.

 

As the smell was there then there will be a sign of overheating but not excess wear and it will be a consequence of the mechanical or hydraulic problem.

[SurreyJohn]

I think you are doing correct thing,

I would remind both parties (dealer and Inspector) that it is your clutch, not theirs, and they are not to dispose of any parts, but are to put them in a plastic bag in your boot.  Your want all evidence preserved until resolved.

 

If it does turn out to be faulty release mechanism, then I would say it was a manufacturing fault, therefore covered by warranty, and for misdiagnosing, dealership should cover cost of report (they have clearly saved by not training technician properly on how to inspect)

 

[Bollcat]

Surrey John, J.R. ,Warrior193 & Wino - genuine thanks from me for taking the time to post. Some great advice and insight into some mechanical issues I can look up. As a Medic I do 'bodies' but I'm a hopeless mechanic 

 

Thanks also for letting me know that the inspection is a good idea.

 

I'll keep you posted.

 

Take care all

 

BC

[motr1912]

A  clutch going after less than 3000 miles points to one thing and one thing only. 

 

Clearly not fit for purpose. 

[NeilRW]

I have a vague memory of some SEAT Atecas with the 1.0 engine having similar issues a few years ago. Have a search on www.atecaforums.co.uk to see if you can find what happened.

[Ootohere]

The expert examination and report is important.

'Driver Error' is the usual response from the Manufacturers / Warranty Provider.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/456623-clutch-gone-after-4900-miles

 

 

 

Edited 28 May, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[Warrior193]

Hi BC, when is your engineer due to inspect the damaged clutch components? 

[nbramwel]

Unfortunately the response from the Skoda dealer is what to expect these days but that certainly doesn't make it right.  They simply want to avoid taking responsibility as it will cost either them or Skoda to fix the problem.  And to charge over £1,000 to replace a clutch is just ludicrous.  Shameful behaviour.  You are wise to get an independent inspection as it will prove invaluable if you have to go down the legal route with this.  Please let us know how you get on.

[Bollcat]

Hi all,

 

Sorry I haven't replied for a while but have waited until I received the independent vehicle inspection which came through today. In short it confirms what I knew from the start - there was a manufacturers error with the vehicle from the point of delivery. Here's the verdict:

 

Conclusion / Opinion: In the engineer's opinion, being based on evidence written, reported, and observed during this assessment of the above defects, the following can be concluded: From the details provided in the report brief, the engineer understands that the vehicle became stuck in first gear whilst stopped at a red traffic light, when the driver could move the vehicle, it was driven to a safe location and recovered into the repairer who have removed the gearbox and clutch components. The engineer can confirm that the clutch friction plate has disintegrated on one side, the debris from the disintegrated friction plate has caused the clutch pressure plate to disengage incorrectly, forcing the clutch release bearing and fork into the gearbox casing locking it to the casing preventing full clutch release and preventing gear change operation. The wear identified on the gearbox casing clearly indicates that the clutch release fork had been fouling against the casing, this would have affected the clutch application and release operation, possibly causing premature clutch slip not controllable by the vehicle operator. From the debris inside of the gearbox bell housing and clutch wear noted on the other side of the clutch friction plate, excessive wear has been occurring for some time. The wear on the gearbox casing and release fork suggests this has been fouling from the vehicles build date, the low recorded vehicle mileage would also confirm the fault was present at the point of sale.

 

So, I feel good that I stood my ground and got the report done, BUT now I'm lost as what to do next. I've just shared this with Skoda and the Ombudsman so I'm waiting to see what they come back with. I'm not mechanically minded AT ALL and the technical terms are beyond me. My question is what next? To me it reads as though there a substantive problem with vehicle and doesn't sound like an easy fix. Indeed, is it a fix or is it inherently knackered...? What should I reasonably expect from Skoda now? It's been over two weeks since this happened and I've been without a vehicle. I'm a paramedic and have been very fortunate that my neighbour has lent me her car a couple of times and my crewmate has also picked me up (miles out of their way bless them) and I'm still struggling to get to and from work. Is it reasonable to be asking for a courtesy car (at no charge to me) whilst this gets sorted out which will invariably take time...?

 

Any advice appreciated.

 

Thanks all

 

BC

[motr1912]

It's good the report is in your favour but I guess you have to hope Skoda don't disregard it but if they did, I'd think you could have a good leg to stand on if you were to take legal action. 

 

No matter how you look at it though, Skoda have been pretty diabolical in the way they have treated a customer and your leasing company not much better. 

 

 

[Breezy_Pete]

Sounds like their initial 'it's user error' must have been a blatant and knowing lie, if they had eyeballed things from the inside at that point.

If they do not offer to replace clutch and gearbox (assuming the independent assessment is that that is damaged more than cosmetically?) under warranty, seek legal advice promptly; and yes, they should definitely be supplying a courtesy car.

Edited 9 June, 2021 by Wino

[Warrior193]

Hi BC, great to hear that your independant engineer has confirmed not user error/abuse, this should have been obvious to the supplying dealer too.

Next step should initially be to go back to dealer with the report to see what they propose to do, escalate to VAG customer services if dealer will not accept liability.

Minimum, loan/free rental car of, at least, same spec as yours for full period and full payment for independant engineers report.

 

Does you vehicle insurance include legal cover?  

Edited 10 June, 2021 by Warrior193
Typo

[Bollcat]

Hi Warrior193, Wino and motr1912,

 

Thanks all for your advice. I sent the report to the dealership and Skoda customer services asking for a courtesy car as a start point and they haven’t even acknowledged the email (I put a delivery and read receipt confirmation).

 

Unfortunately I didn’t take the legal cover option when I got my car insurance but I do have a very good friend who is a solicitor who will act on my behalf if it gets that far but I sincerely hope it doesn’t. 
 

BC

[nbramwel]

Simply don't let Skoda or the dealer get away with this.  They have behaved shamefully and simply want to avoid their responsibilities.  Be firm with them but not over argumentative.  You should not be out of pocket at all and ideally deserve some sort of recompense for your inconvenience.  Take this as far as you can including a loan car at no cost to you, refund of your specialist engineer's costs, repair or replacement of the car to full specification, again at no cost to you and something for your trouble.  Good luck with all of this.  Don't be reluctant to involve your solicitor friend early.  If nothing else, it will show Skoda you are serious.

[Warrior193]

Hi BC, if the dealer continues to ignore your case, I'd strongly consider filing with the County Court, that should get their attention pretty quickly. 

[BigEjit]

If you don't get a response from the dealership (or agent representing the seller you entered the financial agreement with) in a 'reasonable' amount of time, write back to them stating what you want, in that further to your previous communication dated ***,

 

1, An independent evaluation has found and stated in writing that the operation of the clutch system was defective and the fault has been identified with the mechanism outside of the excluded wearing parts listed in the vehicle warranty statement and present since the vehicle was built/prior to your ownership.

 

2, Under terms of the warranty, you expect the defective parts to be repaired or replaced and all other parts damaged as a consequence of the parts failure to be replaced at no further cost to yourself.

 

3, You allow them a stated time period to respond to the request with an appropriate plan of action (1 week from the date of the email/letter for example)

3a, (optional) You require a courtesy vehicle whilst yours is Off Road. (If you have one of theirs, it can speed up their decision making process)

 

4, If they fail to acknowledge the defect was present when the vehicle was built within the time stated or they fail to commit to carry out the repair to meet your reasonable expectations, state that you will make arrangement for the repair to be made elsewhere but you will seek to recover through legal means (Small claims court) ANY out of pocket expenses such as the cost of the repair, vehicle recovery services moving the vehicle to another repairer, time spent dealing with this issue at national minimum hourly wage rates, documented phone calls, costs of reasonable alternative transport arrangements made (bus, taxi, hire car, fuel@45p/mile and time of somebody else moving you about).

 

Make a detailed record of your time and expenses accumilated whilst dealing with this since you presented the vehicle to them on day one of the failure.

 

The more you detail, the more pressure you put on them to sort it out as they can see your costs are escalating. Don't get angry with them, it doesn't help.

 

Be prepared to do what you state in writing to them otherwise they will not fulfil your expectations.

[LondonKamiq]

Hi,

 

Not sure if you got this sorted. Having been through similar crap Skoda service with a brand new lease.

 

If it’s a lease car you should ignore Skoda and raise the issue direct with the lease company (not the broker. The actual underwriters). Don’t let them fob you off (they did the same to me). It’s their responsibility and raise it in writing. You’ve reported it within 6 months. They have one chance to repair it without causing you significant inconvenience. Otherwise pursue rejecting the vehicle is your right under the CRA act. Especially since it’s a pretty major fault as it’s currently not driveable and your new car doesn’t only need a new clutch it’s now got casing damage caused by the fault. The fact it’s a wear and tear item is their only defence but at 2k miles and less than 6 months plus an expert paid diagnostics they don’t have a leg to stand on.

 

Skoda won’t budge until the lease company pressures them and they will only do that if you exercise for your legal rights with them. At which point you’ll start getting emails from Skoda fleet customer services most likely.

 

Try to avoid phone calls. If you do get one request they summarise with an email. If you don’t receive it within the hour send them an email politely summarising all the key points in the call. That way there’s a simple trail of events in writing.

 

Good luck. Remember Skoda know your not the owner of the car. If it ends up in court your just going to get it thrown out because they don’t have to legally do anything for you. Leasing isn’t the same as financing a car.

 

Hope something in this post helps.

 

 

[Bollcat]

Hi all,

 

Again apologies for the late reply but it's been a bloody turgid affair to get to the point where I had my car returned to me today. Sounds like great news (which it is.) but...

 

So, I submitted the independent report requesting a courtesy car and the Dealership promptly replied -  'We reject its findings and don't agree with it'. They were still of the opinion that the only way the damage could have been caused was by 'user error' despite how clear the report had been - that came directly from the Workshop manager at the dealership. They rejected the reports findings that this fault was present at the 'point of sale' outright.

 

At this point my family were trying to coax me down from the ceiling by offering me various sedating medications and a G&T to calm me down. In all seriousness I was pretty despondent to be honest.

 

Anyway, I tried something I've never done before and got the e mail of the CEO of the particular Dealership I was dealing with and e mailed them directly and explained the situation. To their credit his Executive Assistant phoned me within 5 minutes and was brilliant.  She assured me that she would contact the Branch Manager and that they would be in contact with me within the hour.

 

The Branch Manager did indeed contact me within the hour and clearly had been 'briefed' as he was almost too nice. He apologised and said that he was unaware of the issue at his branch and this was the first time he'd been made aware of the situation - that in itself was a pretty big warning sign for me. Although I'm a Paramedic I manage a big team and I NEVER like surprises, so I'd definitely want to know why there was this issue brewing that my team had not briefed me on.

 

Anyway, he then informed me that although the dealership Head mechanic disagreed with the report, as a gesture of goodwill they would complete the repair under warranty, refund the cost of the independent inspection and provide me with a courtesy car. Great news.

 

It took another 4 days to get the courtesy car, I still haven't had the request for my bank details to make the payment for the inspection and when I spoke to the Service manager again (4 days later) he was still saying that the Head mechanic didn't believe the report.

 

Thanks to another forum member he PM'd me with some very useful information which I'll paste below:

 

"HI,

 

Just seen your post about clutch issue with the Kamiq, did you get it sorted in the end? Depending on what gearbox you have fitted and the date the vehicle was made this may help, The Information is from a Skoda tech webinar from September 2020. hope it helps,

 

Vehicle specification  Model: Octavia III, Scala, Karoq, Kamiq, Fabia III  Engine: 1,0 TSI (EA 211) in combination with the manual gearbox MQ200  Complaint/Fault symptom  Clutch slips, smell of burning from the clutch area  After having been removed, the clutch is found to be burnt or degraded/fallen apart

 

Technical background/Cause  Due to anticorrosion protection applied to the flywheel and the clutch, the friction value increase is much more slowly. This may lead to premature clutch failures.  Despite optimizing measures (plate lining of the clutch S308, the diaphragm spring of the pressure plate with temperature stability and decreased rpm in the transport mode), the premature heat overload of the clutch still sporadically occurs.  The clutch failures occur in the range from 10 km to several thousands km depending on how the vehicle is operated.  Measure/Production change  Parts without Anticorit have been fitted to the vehicles since CW 20/2019 (except for Fabia III, where the measure has not been implemented yet).

 

After I sent this, would you believe it the Service manager contacted me and said that the engine mentioned in the above report corresponded to the one I had in my Kamiq and the damage, was, after all, caused by this manufacturers fault - he then asked me where I got the information from. It took every inch of my willpower not to chuffing explode. However, I dug deep, confirmed everything was being repaired and replaced and that it would be ready the next day. 

 

So, on Weds 16th June I went to collect the Kamiq from the dealership and brought it home. It drove perfectly. That is until I got to a set of traffic lights and had to stop to suddenly realise that when the engine was in idle there was a profound vibration coming through the steering wheel and the seat. I genuinely thought for a second that I was going nuts. I continue the drive as I'm nearly home, stop the car and ask my wife to get in and start the Kamiq up. Hey presto about a minute later she says WTF is that vibration and judder? Thank you Lord - it wasn't just me.

 

I get straight on the phone to the Service manager who if I'm being completely honest did everything he possibly could (bar calling me nuts) to convince me that it would settle down. I point blank refused to accept that and asked him to read out to me the road test result and quality control report after the fix to the gearbox and clutch before the Kamiq was released back to me. Conveniently, he didn't have access to them. So, he arranged for a courtesy car to be delivered to my home address the next day and he would take away the Kamiq to get it looked at. 2 days later I hadn't heard anything (there's a pattern here....) so I called him and he confirmed that a high pressure pump had failed which was causing the juddering. They'd ordered the part and would have it fixed by today and get the car returned to me - which they did.

 

After all the grief I'd gone though with this dealership they didn't even road test the bloody thing before they returned it to me?! As I keep saying I'm not a mechanic but this has to be a quality control issue surely?

 

Time after time on these forums people talk about shoddy technicians and poor customer service. The car is back and well, it's different. It drives perfectly well, there is no judder but the old car just purred when it was in idle - it's a 1 litre petrol engine after all. Now, it's just that bit noisier and louder on acceleration. Is it something I can send back? No, but it's not the same. I hoping some of you will be able to reassure me that it'll settle down.

 

Well, they still haven't asked for my bank details so they can refund me the cost of the inspection and despite 2 requests they haven't sent me a single copy of a list of the actual works carried out which my lease company are, not unreasonably, wanting. The bloody car didn't even come back with a valet!??!? Yes, a cursory sponge was put on the outside but the inside was filthy. If I was the service manager I would have had it come back looking like it had stepped off of the production line.

 

So, there you have it. I will write back to the CEO and give them my experience. It won't be in the format of a complaint but it will be from the perspective of a very patient and reasonable service user that was treated like crap from day one, took the intervention of the CEO's office to intervene and even then they continued to **** it up. 

 

One last piece of advice please - it still stinks of a burnt clutch from the outside. It's fine when I get in the car but from the outside it still smells. Is that normal for a replacement clutch or just a hangover from the original smell when the thing was knackered.

 

Lastly - thank you. Thank you to all of you that have taken the time to post and send me advice and encouragement. It's the internet at its best and I'm very appreciative of you all.

 

Best

 

BC

 

 

 

 

[motr1912]

What an utter shambles of a dealership. I have used two skoda dealerships in my time owning skodas and both were great at the simple things and woeful at other things like fixing things and fitting things. 

 

The fact on top of your experience of the dealer and their inability to provide you with a service that isn't anything above effing crap, your lease company also appeared to sold you down the river too from your original post.

 

I have to ask, have you been in touch with the lease company since? Also, are you still paying them? 

 

If you are, I would be pressing for skoda to cover any costs for your lease payments whilst still trying to get their head out of their arse. 

 

Should add that I have a leased kamiq (just over a week now) and I just hope I don't experience anything bad. 

 

My heart goes out to you for having to deal with these idiots. 

[Warrior193]

I suggest contacting the manager again and give them 7 days to, at the very least, refund all your out of pocket expenses - failing which you will start legal proceedings. Lets see how keen they are to have the bailiffs around emptying out their showroom or workshop.

[J.R.]

That horrible clutch smell can hang around for ages, a bit like the smell of death from a decaying rodent in my roofspace you become hypersensitized to it, it can appear to have gone away but one day perhaps the wind is blowing in the right direction and you get a tiny whiff of it which your sensory system amplifies massively probably recognising it as a threat.

 

If it isn't smelling through operation, reverse hill start, reversing a trailer etc then I would not be too concerned.

[J.R.]

I am usually very good at deciphering and making senses google translations from one language to another but this part of the tech webinar is causing me some problems, can anyone suggest what it might be saying? the rest makes sense:

 

Technical background/Cause  Due to anticorrosion protection applied to the flywheel and the clutch, the friction value increase is much more slowly. This may lead to premature clutch failures.  Despite optimizing measures (plate lining of the clutch S308, the diaphragm spring of the pressure plate with temperature stability and decreased rpm in the transport mode), the premature heat overload of the clutch still sporadically occurs.