This self-learning thing has to be a complete myth. Why wouldn't it be mentioned in the otherwise comprehensive manual that has a section devoted entirely to how the gearbox operates?

 

It also makes no sense. Automatics don't change gear depending on the length of the journey made. If you're cruising at 70mph you'll be in the highest possible gear, regardless of whether you are travelling 200 miles on a day trip on a motorway, or whether you pop out to buy a newspaper every morning and you happen to buy it at the service station which happens to be on a motorway only one mile away from your house. If you're up to 70mph you'll be in top gear regardless of it being a short trip you do every day or you're going on holiday.

 

The car responds to throttle input full stop, if you keep your foot to the floor you'll be in shorter gears for longer, that rings true for autos and manuals.

 

The DSG won't ignore throttle inputs, it will do what all autos do in the same circumstances, what is there to learn?

 

I'm not saying there definitely isn't some sort of reset, athough to reset what I don't know, as I don't know either way. I don't believe in this self-learn thing though for the above reasons though, there's zero requirement for it to exist, and no way would a feature that alters the parameters of how the car drives not be mentioned officially in any documentation anywhere by VAG.

 

You will find in a 2010 on Mk2 Fabia Owners Manual the bit about 'Dynamic Driving' with a DQ200 DSG and how you change how the box does behave when driven in different manners.   So the sharp pedal actions and the way driven has it matching the spirited driving.

 

When you lend your car to someone else it can come back driving like ****e, as can cars from a dealers forecourt.

It does not take many miles of giving one going like a slug to behave as you expect.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/228192-resting-dsg

 

Remember that VW Group / Audi were caught with Defeat devices affecting DSG's and not just engines. 

that was for changing behaviour during testing. 

They played about with software before it was commonly used in certain models.

Edited 9 January, 20233 yr by toot

4 minutes ago, toot said:

You will find in a 2010 on Mk2 Fabia Owners Manual the bit about 'Dynamic Driving' with a DQ200 DSG and how you change how the box does behave when driven in different manners.   So the sharp pedal actions and the way driven has it matching the spirited driving.

 

When you lend your car to someone else it can come back driving like ****e, as can cars from a dealers forecourt.

It does not take many miles of giving one going like a slug to behave as you expect.

 

Did they have selectable engine modes on those cars?

 

Just wondering how the two might tie together, or if they don't. I wonder if the differing modes have made that feature obsolete perhaps?

 

Thanks for confirming what the manual covered, that gives a lot of credence to my suspicion that if it isn't covered in a manual then it is because the car doesn't have it.

You had D or S.  Nothing else selectable.

Kick down could be on full down accelerator pedal, or a sharp acceleration it is at 1/3 pedal on a DQ200 DSG on a 1.4 TSI Twincharger.

But then the DQ200 was used in 48 applications /VW Group vehicles, they do not have the same mapping / management from those with 70 ps, to those with 180ps / Skoda.  (192 ps. this was with DQ200 7 speed in Polo GTI 192 ps 2015, limited to 250Nm.)

 

Programmes are there, pre-set.   

They could become forgetful and needed a kick up the backside to remind them who is boss.

(It helps lots if an engine is well serviced up to temp, and maybe running higher octane / cetane fuel.)

 

Edited 9 January, 20233 yr by toot

That does not describe a learning system. It simply adapts to the required throttle input. It may have some level of retention, maintaining a moderate style, dynamic style or any combination in between for a short while until it recognises that you want a different output from it. This again is not a learning system like people think it is.

 

The dsg reset is mainly used to recirculate oil and to let the system re-adapt the clutch bite points. This can have the affect of making the box feel different and many comment that it then starts to relearn. All correct apart from the relearning bit.

On 06/01/2023 at 13:40, Donweather said:

Dealer rang me back this morning and said that with the DQ 250 the whole unit is replaced as one complete DSG (mechatronics and clutch pack). So brand spanking new DSG and first drive it crunches from 2nd to 1st. Not happy. 

Latest update from dealer is that their technician wants to find a car with the same gearbox (DQ250) as mine and test drive that car and then test drive mine to compare the gearboxes. Dealer said they’re having difficulty finding another Sportline as this is the only Skoda car with the DQ250 box. Is this true?  Surely not. I’ve got a superb loan car at the moment with the 162TSI engine. It has a 6 speed. Is it not the DQ250?  I’m in Oz BTW. 
 

This Aussie article states both the 162TSI and 206TSI (Sportline) have a 6 speed DSG but it doesn’t indicate if they’re the same gearbox (DQ250)?

 

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/2021-skoda-superb-pricing-and-specs-detailed-new-162tsi-style-grade-arrives-for-facelifted

Edited 10 January, 20233 yr by Donweather

23 minutes ago, Donweather said:

Latest update from dealer is that their technician wants to find a car with the same gearbox (DQ250) as mine and test drive that car and then test drive mine to compare the gearboxes. Dealer said they’re having difficulty finding another Sportline as this is the only Skoda car with the DQ250 box. Is this true?  Surely not. I’ve got a superb loan car at the moment with the 162TSI engine. It has a 6 speed. Is it not the DQ250?  I’m in Oz BTW. 
 

This Aussie article states both the 162TSI and 206TSI (Sportline) have a 6 speed DSG but it doesn’t indicate if they’re the same gearbox (DQ250)?

 

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/2021-skoda-superb-pricing-and-specs-detailed-new-162tsi-style-grade-arrives-for-facelifted

 

Since they are not exactly the same box. DQ250 in 206TSI is a high final gear version. And the gear ratios are totally different. 

 

1 hour ago, elfensin said:

 

Since they are not exactly the same box. DQ250 in 206TSI is a high final gear version. And the gear ratios are totally different. 

 

Ah OK thanks.  Thought a DQ250 was DQ250 in every car, but clearly there's different DQ250's.

Regardless of which DQ250 he drives there should be smooth gear changes up and down the box.  Planty 6 speed Wet clutch DSG,s in VW group models.  Wet clutch before DQ380 / 381,s were introduced.    Totally different from DQ200 DSG, that have 2 oils, in the MCU and in the box.  These were part of a world wide recall in Australia and 2 more since 2012.   

 

@elfensin

It is just a DQ250. Nothing special. 

Used because the WLTP was not an issue for Australia, same as why there is no GPF. 

Edited 10 January, 20233 yr by toot

15 hours ago, toot said:

Regardless of which DQ250 he drives there should be smooth gear changes up and down the box.  Planty 6 speed Wet clutch DSG,s in VW group models.  Wet clutch before DQ380 / 381,s were introduced.    Totally different from DQ200 DSG, that have 2 oils, in the MCU and in the box.  These were part of a world wide recall in Australia and 2 more since 2012.   

 

@elfensin

It is just a DQ250. Nothing special. 

Used because the WLTP was not an issue for Australia, same as why there is no GPF. 

 

 

Yes and no.

They are all DQ250, but with different sub-name (like the 0D9 in your table).  They might share 99% of the components, but as I said, the gear ratios in them are different.

 

Don's dealer wants to do a comparison test with another car. In this case, they  have to find another car with the EXACTLY same gearbox. Any difference in gear ratio will make the test less trustworthy since the RPM differences between 1st gear and 2nd gear are not the same now. 

 

Other than hardware (gear ratios), I think I saw someone said the software (tuning) was not the same. One tuned toward more smooth, one tuned toward more direct and fast shifting. But just saying, I'm not 100% sure about it.

 

You always want to compare apples to apples.

2 hours ago, elfensin said:

Other than hardware (gear ratios), I think I saw someone said the software (tuning) was not the same. One tuned toward more smooth, one tuned toward more direct and fast shifting. But just saying, I'm not 100% sure about it.

That’s def the case with the Superb (162TSI) loan car I have at the moment. The gear shifts are much much smoother than my Sportline particularly when downshifting under load. 

@elfensinIt is a 6 speed semi automatic gearbox, it should not behave like crap.

There is a load of guff being spoken about any testing or comparison.

They can look at the rpm of changes or anything they like.  A crate DQ250 dsg was delivered fitted and was OK, or fitted poorly. 

 

They like to turn a drama into a crisis.  Or just BS.

 

?

What are they doing to do, drive cars back to back and say, 'They all do that' we replaced the gearbox for no reason according to our experts opinion. 

http://actronics.co.uk/news/the-evolution-of-the-dsg-gearbox

20 years of use and a Master Tech or Fitter in Australia needs to do more looking into these new fangled things.

 

Edited 11 January, 20233 yr by toot

So latest is picked car up from dealer (new alternator). They test drive another Sportline and couldn’t find any dissimilar DSG issues between that car and mine. They couldn’t replicate the crunching from 2nd to 1st downshifts. 
 

Their advice was to not downshift from 2nd to 1st unless the car comes to a complete stop as this is what the car does in automatic mode. I just laughed took my keys and left. 

What an absolutely ridiculous thing to say. Where’s the next closest dealer? 

So continuing on my DSG dilemmas I’ve noticed since my new DSG install that intermittently (although appears to becoming more frequent) when using the engine and gears for compression braking I’m lacking compression braking. Mainly when changing down from 3rd to 2nd the car doesn’t want to compression brake. More just coast. Almost feels like the clutch is slipping in reverse (in compression braking as opposed to hard driving through the gears). 
 

anyone heard of anything similar with the DSG gearbox?  I checked my settings to see if somehow the car/engine had been switched into eco mode hence coasting kicking in when compression braking but it was still in “normal” setting against “drive”. 

On 10/01/2023 at 13:06, Donweather said:

Latest update from dealer is that their technician wants to find a car with the same gearbox (DQ250) as mine and test drive that car and then test drive mine to compare the gearboxes. Dealer said they’re having difficulty finding another Sportline as this is the only Skoda car with the DQ250 box. Is this true?  Surely not. I’ve got a superb loan car at the moment with the 162TSI engine. It has a 6 speed. Is it not the DQ250?  I’m in Oz BTW. 
 

This Aussie article states both the 162TSI and 206TSI (Sportline) have a 6 speed DSG but it doesn’t indicate if they’re the same gearbox (DQ250)?

 

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/2021-skoda-superb-pricing-and-specs-detailed-new-162tsi-style-grade-arrives-for-facelifted

 

tis the "same" DQ250 in both the 162 and the 206 Superb.

what is different is how they drive the wheels - 162 is DQ250 FWD version while 206 is DQ250 AWD version.

55 minutes ago, JR RS said:

 

tis the "same" DQ250 in both the 162 and the 206 Superb.

what is different is how they drive the wheels - 162 is DQ250 FWD version while 206 is DQ250 AWD version.

Yep thanks. 

Please don't all gang up on me......it's a genuine question, I'm not trying to be a smart arse.

 

Why would you downshift to 1st while still moving??

 

I have put over 1,000,000kms on two seperate cars with the 6spd wet DSG box....... and that is something I would never have felt the need to do.

All depends if you drive your car like a manual or leave it in full automatic mode.  I get bored driving in automatic mode hence the downshifts.

@Donweather?

What actual engine and DSG do you have?

 

& do you actually shift it down to M1 when just crawling along in slow traffic or when coming to a halt?

 

Many if in D with different engines / DSG in slow crawling traffic will move the shifter to S so that it might not hunt up and down from 1st to 2nd, but then location location location, 

and circumstances.

22 hours ago, Donweather said:

All depends if you drive your car like a manual or leave it in full automatic mode.  I get bored driving in automatic mode hence the downshifts.

 

Even in “manual” mode, it’ll still change down to 1st at standstill “automatically”. 

16 minutes ago, numskull said:

 

Even in “manual” mode, it’ll still change down to 1st at standstill “automatically”. 

 

+1

i often drive in Manual mode, and i've never had to downshift into 1st.  
i'll drop down to 2nd, and when i'm almost at a standstill, the car will automatically drop it down to 1st, seamlessly.

 

On 25/02/2023 at 22:38, k.young said:

Please don't all gang up on me......it's a genuine question, I'm not trying to be a smart arse.

 

Why would you downshift to 1st while still moving??

 

I have put over 1,000,000kms on two seperate cars with the 6spd wet DSG box....... and that is something I would never have felt the need to do.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. One of my children does that in his manual car and you can hear the gear whining as it's turning at far too high a speed it's designed to do, the driving instructor told me to do it is the answer I get.... It won't be the driving instructor who'll be crawling around the breakers yards looking for a replacement gearbox 😡

4 hours ago, j caff said:

“….the driving instructor told me to do it…”

The driving instructor is an idiot. 

40 minutes ago, numskull said:

The driving instructor is an idiot. 

I know and I can't get him to stop doing it, it's ingrained in his driving. The gearbox is definitely suffering because of it. Learning to drive in a Morris Minor had its advantages!!