How much time do you warm-up your Felicia?

[J.R.]

2 hours ago, HappySkoda said:

https://www.skodaclubpeloponnhsou.gr/2021/09/nea-fabia.html?m=1

Oh really? Try to read this and try to participate in the forum writing in greek language. Just try and see how "easy" it is. 

What are you talking about man! Where did I say understanding another language is easy?

 

Perhaps you quoted the wrong person.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

On 24/12/2021 at 13:14, KenONeill said:

I don't understand "the coolant mixture is too thick". Ethylene glycol has a very similar viscosity (thickness) to water.

 

This is complete b@11ocks! Ethylene glycol has a specific heat capacity about half that of water, so will heat and cool faster.

 

Coolant ''too thick" or ''too strong" means is 80 or 70 or 60% ethylene glycol and the rest distilled water

Coolant ''too thin" or ''too weak" means 30-20% ethylene glycol and the rest distilled water.

Coolant "watery" means 10% ethylene glycol and the rest distilled water but every mechanic will point this to you as a Danger.

 

We know that, for educational purposes a tuning magazine here made a test at 2005, asked from some companies to provide him their products and for those who respond here are the results.

I wish they could test more products but it was not in their hands.

 

Brand - Boiling temperature - Cooling time:

 

Distilled water: 127.4 C, 18.5 min

AGIP ANTIFREEZE EXTRA: 134.3 C, 16.5min

AMSOIL PROPYLENE GLYCOL: 130.6 C, 16.4min

AQUAFLU: 130.2 C, 16.2min ARAL ANTIFREEZE EXTRA: 132.3C, 16.4min

BP ANTIFROST: 132.9 C, 17.4 min

CASTROL ANTIFREEZE: 132.6 C, 17.8min

ELF COOLELF CLASSIC: 133.3 C, 17.7 min

EVANS NPO-R: 215 C, 16.4min

FL PARAFLU 11: 132.7 C, 16.7min

FUCHS FRICOFIN S: 133.1 C, 17.2min

IGOL ANTIGEL: 132.4 C, 16.8min

IP ECOBLU 100: 132.5 C, 16.6min

ANTIFREEZE LOCTITE: 132.1 C, 17.2min

MOTUL INUGEL EXPERT: 133.6 C, 16.9min

REPSOL ANTICONGELANTE: 132.8 C, 11.4min

SHELL GLYCOSHELL CONCETRATE: 132.2 C, 17min

ANTIFREEZE VALVES: 132.5 C, 16.4min

YACCO LR ORGANIQUE: 136.2 C, 15.7min

FUCHS FRICOFIN G12: 132.8 C, 16min

REDLINE WATER WETTER: 127.8 C, 18min

 

It's a common believe here that for a family car with the temperatures that we have (for example in Athens) and the traffic that a mixture of 30%-70% or 40%-60% it's fine and a mixture of 50%-50% cover almost everybody in Greek territory.

I have done a mistake to my coolant mixture due to some problems (thermostat, i was in the middle of the road trying etc) and i calculate it wrong so my coolant now is ''thick" or ''very strong" so comparing to a 50%-50% mixture (that the majority suggest) i think the recovery time of my mixture is worst than 40-60 or a 50-50 one, am i wrong to this?

 

On 24/12/2021 at 17:33, J.R. said:

I know how hard it is even with total immersion over 15 years, I am in awe of those who can do far better  without any exposure to the language and with nothing more than books etc.

 

I would like to inform you (and the other guy which many times has made ironically posts about my english) about the situation here in Greece for studying a foreign language as english for example:

 

How many years does it take to finish English?

Two (2) years of preliminary classes (Junior A + B ) + six (6) years normal (up to the order of Lower B2) + two (2) years to obtain the Proficiency C2 degree, total 10 years.

 

What are the English classes? 1. Junior A ’ (first preliminary) 2. Junior B ' (Monday preliminary) 3. Beginners - A Senior (1st regular) 4. Elementary - B Senior (2nd regular) 5. Level A1 - C Senior (3rd regular) 6. Level A2 - D Senior (4th regular) 7. Level B1 - Pre-FCE (5th regular or year before LOWER) 8. Level B2 (Lower) 9. Level C1 (Advanced) 10.Level C2 (Proficiency).

 

I am a family man who works 6 days per week trying to pay the loan for his house, the bills and maintain a car and a small motorcycle. I born in the middle of 60's and now it's too late for me to abandon everything and go to school for english don't you think?

_______________________________________________

 

PLUS: the challenge (or say it as a wager) is ON,

 

On 24/12/2021 at 17:29, D.FYLAKTOS said:

If someone Non Greek can manage to login and participate to a Greek Skoda forum writing in Greek language (in the same way of learning) better than i do english here, then i publicly commit to accept my loss and delete my account in this forum.

 

except the

https://www.skodaclubpeloponnhsou.gr/search/label/ΤΕΧΝΙΚΕΣ ΕΡΩΤΗΣΕΙΣ-ΑΠΑΝΤΗΣΕΙΣ-ΣΧΟΛΙΑ

there are another two

http://www.groupvag.gr/skodaclub/index.php

and the

https://skodafans.gr/skodafans/index.php

 

I am there with the same nick name so it's easy to be found so let's see if there is a volunteer.

 

 

..

[nta16]

For your coolant if you can buy (or borrow) a refractometer you could see how strong it is and make calculations from there as to how much you need to dilute it and/or dilute it in stages testing each time.

 

Or you could drain off the existing over-strong coolant and refill - and if you want to you could have the new coolant slightly weak to balance out and allow for the over-strong residue left in the system.

 

For full refill you can measure the amount of existing coolant you have drained out, allowing for any spillage or other losses, subtract this from the dry fill capacity of the system and that will tell you the amount of remaining residue of existing over-strong coolant is still in the system and you can calculate from there.

 

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

While searching for this matter i saw this

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethylene-glycol-d_146.html

 

Between 30% or 40% Ethylene Glycol the boiling point is identical, 104.4 'C

 

From the Motul coolant that i use now i have found this

https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/inugel_expert_ultra_en_fr_motul.pdf

 

To maintain anti-corrosion properties, do not dilute below 33%

______________________________

 

I wonder:

1) What's the gain to go to 50%-50% since we don't have here below zero cold start temperatures?

2) With the logic ''my fuel mix is rich at cold start" a 30% ethylene glycol mix won't get warmer one click faster that the 50% mix at morning cold starts?

[KenONeill]

55 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

To maintain anti-corrosion properties, do not dilute below 33%

There is a statement missing from your table of boiling point against mixture. This statement should read "At standard temperature and pressure". Your Skoda, like mine and almost all other cars on the road with water jacket cooling systems, has a pressurised system, which raises the boiling point of a 50/50 mix to more like 115C at sea level.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

23 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

which raises the boiling point of a 50/50 mix to more like 115C at sea level.

 

Yes the boiling point of water is less as we get higher in the mountain but about those number that many coolants say 200-220-23-240 "c etc is there a possibility for our car to stand such a temperature?

The limit is 120 'C and after that the ''Boom" comes.

 

My biggest concern is: a 30% ethylene glycol mix won't get warmer one click faster that the 50% mix at morning cold starts?

 

[nta16]

6 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Yes the boiling point of water is less as we get higher in the mountain but about those number that many coolants say 200-220-23-240 "c etc is there a possibility for our car to stand such a temperature?

The limit is 120 'C and after that the ''Boom" comes.

I am not sure where you have got your figures from with this, do you mean 200-240F or just that the coolant will not boil off before the engine goes, 120c would be pressure cap letting out.

 

 

6 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

My biggest concern is: a 30% ethylene glycol mix won't get warmer one click faster that the 50% mix at morning cold starts?

Is your concern that at 30% you will have less flow of coolant, if so would that matter as you do not want to have much cooling if the engine is already cold.  Also if the manufacturer recommends a minimum of 33% that would be it.

 

IIRC I was told on here lowest weather temperature was -10c, if so you would also need to allow for wind chill factor as you drive the car through the air and margins for accuracy of dilution and effectiveness of coolant as it diminishes.

 

What is the suggested dilution in the Driver's Handbook?

 

[KenONeill]

9 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

many coolants say 200-220-23-240 "c

I'm going to guess that these are described as "waterless coolant" and/or "for competition use"? I've no direct experience of them, but suspect that they'll melt the rubber hoses in normal cars first.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

3 hours ago, nta16 said:

I am not sure where you have got your figures from with this, do you mean 200-240F or just that the coolant will not boil off before the engine goes, 120c would be pressure cap letting out.

 

 

Is your concern that at 30% you will have less flow of coolant

 

Also if the manufacturer recommends a minimum of 33% that would be it.

 

 

What is the suggested dilution in the Driver's Handbook?

 

I have problem in cold starts, i think my cooland takes too long to come to the proper temperature and that costs me in fuel consumption.

I guess that happens because my cooland mixtrure is wrong.

 

The 33% is from Motul G11 specifications.

 

The book says 40% to cover all the countries.

[nta16]

I saw the 33% and guessed it might be 40% in the book, personally I would go with 40% as that gives a good margin for error from 33% too.

 

I am not sure how much if at all this will make a difference to your cold start but as you have put you do not need 50% so why not reduce it to 40% and see how it goes, you could always dilute it further to 33% if you really must later.

 

As I remember it the anti-corrosion additives diminish before the antifreeze properties so you are better to renew the coolant sooner than later.

 

I have just looked it up (and to be clear I personally do not recommend its use) Evans Waterless Coolant has a boiling point of 375f (190c) not that much higher than the maximum of some over coolants. - https://www.evanscoolant.com/how-it-works/benefits/

 

[nta16]

Just thought - do you have an oil cooler and if so does it have an oil thermostat to it?

 

[J.R.]

I found recently that 2 years ago when the front was off my car for the write off repairs that I had refilled the cooling system with plain water and forgotten to refill with anti-freeze as soon as I could buy some.

 

I ordered 2 x 5 litres of G13 concentrate to have a stock but the delivery took weeks and came after I had returned to France, today I bought 3 litres of premixed G12+ from the discount shop as a temporary measure as it looks like it will be finally be getting cold, less than half the concentration I need but it should do until my next UK trip when I can refill with the proper stuff at the correct concentration.

 

I was really really lucky to have avoided freezing damage last winter, the 3 litres that I sucked out today was clear water with absolutely no signs of corrosion which really surprised me, I dont think my header tank has the Silkat teabag (no sign of it and no writing) so either its there somewhere and has done its job which VAG say is to give protection if the system is filled with plain water or I don't have Silkat and there is no need for it.

 

I have driven 23000 miles with only tap water in the system, there was no sign or taste of any residual coolant in what I sucked out.

[Thefeliciahacker]

Well as most of you know I run ethelyne glycol and not G11 12 13 stuff in my car, I run -18c premix which amounts to appr. 30% coolant 70% water, and I never had a problem. In any case water is better at conducting heat than ethelyne glycol that meaning it will keep the engine cooler, but why wouldn't you want to keep a HG failure prone engine cool, even if your fuel economy suffers. Your head gasket will not.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

11 hours ago, nta16 said:

(and to be clear I personally do not recommend its use) Evans Waterless Coolant

 

We know it for years now but it's a ''walking in the razor's blade" decision, you need too much preparation to install it and i case of something goes wrong fro example a leak when you are in the country ''you are done"

You have to carry 1-2 litres of this in your trunk just in case.

 

10 hours ago, nta16 said:

do you have an oil cooler and if so does it have an oil thermostat to it?

 

No.

 

11 hours ago, nta16 said:

so why not reduce it to 40% and see how it goes, you could always dilute it further to 33% if you really must later.

 

 

I am working on that the last days.

 

7 hours ago, J.R. said:

I have driven 23000 miles with only tap water in the system, there was no sign or taste of any residual coolant in what I sucked out.

 

Very interesting sir!

For many years i was running a mixture of 20-30% ethylene glycol and the rest was distilled water, no problem at all.

I made a mistake and believed some guys ''your coolant is too weak, your pump is not lubricated properly, you are gonna have a problem soon" etc and i changed the analogy, my bad.

 

1 hour ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

In any case water is better at conducting heat than ethelyne glycol that meaning it will keep the engine cooler

 

My ECU programmer insisted, ''distilled water FIRST OF ALL and then the ethylene glycol"

The same opinion has it a very respectful forum member here in Greece which was for many years in USA and was working with NASCAR racing team in Illinois, he suggested ethylene glycol at the absolutely necessary amount (for corrosion, pump lubrication etc) and the rest distilled water.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

Wurth Flamix C G11 says no less than mixture for -20 'C because there will be no protection against corrosion.

 

On the other hand Motul G11 suggests to maintain anti-corrosion properties, do not dilute below 33% which is at least for -22 'C protection.

 

But here in Greece we do not have such temperatures, for example till now the worst morning temperature here in Athens was -1 'C at 5 o'clock and since i don't start the car sooner than 9 o'clock my questions is:

The 33% is really THE rule or to put so much of their product is there a possibility to be a selling trick?

 

 

Edited 29 December, 2021 by D.FYLAKTOS

[KenONeill]

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

20-30% ethylene glycol... some guys ''your coolant is too weak, your pump is not lubricated properly, you are gonna have a problem soon"

My bull faeces detector has just gone off. Glycol is not a lubricant.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

My bull faeces detector has just gone off. Glycol is not a lubricant.

 

Unfortunately the additives in our antifreeze breakdown over time and while it may still prevent freezing it will fail to protect the hoses and engine components from deteriorating.

 

 

https://www.waynesgarage.com/tips/more-tip/antifreeze

 

You know very well what they meant by saying "lubrication".

________________

 

We don't have "bull faesces" on the roads here, in the country you may find goat virvilies.

[nta16]

D.FYLAKTOS do bear in mind with America that it is an entirely different country and have different practices to other places in the world and they have different requirements for their vehicles and (many) different ways of doing things.  Some of them at least often change the engine oil at every 3,000 miles, they have "shops" that specialise in quick and cheap oil changes (and then look for other work on the car) imagine what they would think of once a year or 20,000 miles or even 12,000 miles oil changes.  Oil is very cheap and very wide ranging to them, a small engine is 2 litres.

 

And in your link has - "Your automobile cooling system should have a concentration of 50% to 70% antifreeze to water at all times for good protection."  IIRC Europe has different antifreezes to America, in the same way that different blends of oil are available to different geographical areas to suit the local requirements (or marketing).

 

[Thefeliciahacker]

Well I've done research and experiments on that. 

My premixed ethelyne glycol coolant does have corrosion protection based on bs6580:2010 which is a strict standard and if it conforms to that everything else should be Okey. 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

2 hours ago, nta16 said:

Europe has different antifreezes to America,

 

You have the also the Yellow (which yes exists here in Greece) by Amsoil (i have tested it) but we don't have that ''Lime'' Green

 

 

Here Chris shows to us what's going to happen if we have pure water inside our hoses and as you can see he suggests a 50%-50% mix but my main question is:

The 33% Ethylene glycol percentage is really THE rule for minimum protection from corrosion or there a possibility to be a selling trick?

 

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

8 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

 

My premixed ethelyne glycol coolant does have corrosion protection based on bs6580:2010 which is a strict standard and if it conforms to that everything else should be Okey. 

 

You have 30% ''pure'' Ethylene Glycol and the rest 70% is distilled water or 30% ''ready to use'' Ethylene Glycol and the rest 70% distilled water?

[Thefeliciahacker]

100 percent ready to use mixture of 30%

[D.FYLAKTOS]

5 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Well I've done research and experiments on that. 

My premixed ethelyne glycol coolant does have corrosion protection based on bs6580:2010 which is a strict standard and if it conforms to that everything else should be Okey. 

This one?

So 30% is the lowest limit and 20% for example means future problems?

 

https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=511991

 

Edited 29 December, 2021 by D.FYLAKTOS

[D.FYLAKTOS]

 

Commonly used are 40-60% solutions of concentrated antifreeze (usable between −28 °C and −50 °C). The final limits of use are concentrations of 30% (in warmer regions because they provide protection up to only −18 °C

and lower concentrations do not protect against corrosion) and 70%, which are usable up to about −65 °C.

So, to what extent you will mix antifreeze and water mostly depends on the weather conditions. Just be careful not to dilute the antifreeze too much, as this will significantly raise the freezing point and will not protect against corrosion.

 

Further, low concentrations of antifreeze do not protect enough from corrosion because they do not have enough corrosion inhibitors

 

https://totalenergies.rs/en/advice-proposals/ehow/antifreeze-everything-you-need-know

 

BS 6580: https://www.smithandallan.com/documents/PRODUCT INFO Antifreeze BS 6580.pdf

 

For a ready-to-use coolant with good corrosion protection it is recommended to use at least 30 % by volume of engine coolant concentrate.

 

https://vietducjsc.vn/upload/cdn/files/COrrosion Inhibitor BS 6580.pdf

 

@Thefeliciahacker : Thank you! 

 

 

[Thefeliciahacker]

21 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

So 30% is the lowest limit and 20% for example means future problems?

Yes down to 30% it's absolutely safe. The issue as I said before is that it gets depleted rather quickly so I change it every 2 years.