Skoda Felicia has DIS

 

 

 

Here is it on the engine bay

 

 

 

The factory one is from Champion, it's ''plug and play'' with 2 allen screws and 1 clip.

These are my previous Champion, only for 3175 Km on use but the majority of them on slow city traffic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Skoda Felicia has DIS

Yes sorry I realise that, I was just comparing the term "coil".  I cannot remember you mentioning anything to suggest there is anything wrong with your coil pack and anyway it would have shown up when you were at your programmer's.

 

 

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

These are my previous Champion, only for 3175 Km on use but the majority of them on slow city traffic.

I see nothing surprising given the previous issues and the short stop-start city driving.  I would clean them check the gap and carefully store them until you are satisfied with you new plugs (I almost put fully satisfied but decided against it) then throw them away (or give them to someone else).

 

Edited 17 February, 20224 yr by nta16

2 hours ago, nta16 said:

it would have shown up when you were at your programmer's

 

As a matter of fact no one ever told me to change that part as "precautionary".

They only thing that mention over decades here to pay attenrion for any signs of moisture (and do anything to prevent it) inside that plastic pipes.

 

2 hours ago, nta16 said:

I would clean them check the gap and carefully store them

 

I measure the gap, was 0,33 inch which is 0.8382 cm so OK.

The fuel consumption slowly degreases, now i am 11,02 ltr which brings a light smile in my face.

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

As a matter of fact no one ever told me to change that part as "precautionary".

No do not.  I am all for changing serviceable parts and other parts in a timely fashion and well before they start to play up and cause problems, or worse still stop working, but parts like that are best left until they show signs of playing up.  Often now you can replace an old part that is not at its best but it is still better than some modern made brand new parts.

 

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

I measure the gap, was 0,33 inch which is 0.8382 cm so OK.

That would be near enough for me, and perhaps your car might suit an even wider gap depending on what the programmer usually does.

 

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

The fuel consumption slowly degreases, now i am 11,02 ltr which brings a light smile in my face.

What figure for the cold weather starts and city stop-start short journeys would bring a smile to your face?

 

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

What figure for the cold weather starts and city stop-start short journeys would bring a smile to your face?

 

I use the car for house to work and work to house, steady hours same route and the road conditions are 95% the same.

I know when the temperature will start rising, when it will reach the 91 'C when the fan will start spinning for 1st time etc and the weather all these days was the same except a light rain today.

The 2nd cold start of the day is from the same spot 5 floors below earth almost the same time and i follow the same rout to exit, one road block, turn right, main road, here is the 1st traffic light etc.

I began with 13,1 ltr fuel consumption and now i am on 11,02 (same road conditions) and when i pushed it few days back in the mountain (Champion spark plugs) i was in 10,8 ltr.

 

The car is one click better when i start from the traffic light plus on the acceleration after change from 1st to 2nd gear in the alleys close to home.

I want to find a boulevard with minimum traffic to push the car at higher rpm or one evening to go out to the national road to see the difference with the iridium spark plugs.

Update:

 

Today noon after finishing work i found a boulevard and finally manage to put the 3rd-4th gear even for few seconds, i reached the U turn and turn back again having the chance to put 3rd-4th gear again but for a little bit.

Unfortunately the city traffic ''caught me'' and after one kilometre i returned home because i didn't had enough time.

The TC-6 showed fuel consumption 10,68 ltr for that small trip which means:

1) My Trusty as is isn't for hard city traffic

2) the Air Intake Manifold cleaning, the correction on the thermostat Coolant Sensor and the new Iridium spark plugs were worth it.

 

The new plug for the Coolant sensor is coming soon, i can't leave the old cables because after so many years are hardened and i don't trust them.

Considering the type of city driving you do I think the fuel consumption will not be good, you will probably see more improvement on your combined driving and open road with possibly improved spirit in the performance.

 

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

Considering the type of city driving you do I think the fuel consumption will not be good

 

Due to Covid restrictions and 2 times Quarantine period there were no options except home-work-home. Few years back things weren't this way, i could go to a boulevard or make short trips to national roads that's why i was seeing better fuel consumption.

I will try to go the highway and later i will make a detour to a quiet mountain road, so far the spark plus turn out to be an excellent choice!

Same over here but we had home-working so even less use the annual cost per mile was even higher than usual, periods of inactivity are particularly harder on my car.

 

22 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

so far the spark plus turn out to be an excellent choice!

Great news and not expensive considering how long they could last and if they give improvements better still.

 

My next task is to replace the ''clapet'' on the air filter box , below is the lower part

 

VAG 6U0129607B

 

 

 

When you start the car hot air (red arrow) comes from the exhaust manifold and when the temperature rises (if i remember correct at 30 'C) then the clapet opens and allow cool air (blue arrow) to come inside the box while closing the entrance of the hot air.

According to theory those first minutes the hot air will make the starting process easier, the fuel-air ratio will be better etc.

 

As a young driver (No internet back then) i follow the advise of a guy and remove it, i can't find it now so i had to buy a new air filter box or the lower part as Used.

Few weeks back another Felician mention it, i can't remember if it was @Papez @J.R. @Pete_Ex-Wino

I do remember you putting that you had disabled some flap and had recently found it had fallen but I did not realise it related to this(?).  Obviously there is not hot air from the exhaust on initial cold start so bear that in mind for your longer higher idle.

 

This might valve have been something more for emissions, I am not sure, whether it will make any difference to your issue and initial fuel consumption, again I am not sure it will.  Others will know a lot more about this than me.

 

Of course the valve does need to operate properly and fully and not be stuck at warm for your location, if stuck at cold then it is the same as it not being fitted.  

 

I possibly mentioned the manual system on a 1980s Ford we had where you manually turned the air filter inlet tube through 90 degrees to point at the exhaust for winter use and then sometime when you thought it appropriate you manually turned it back to horizontal.  For carburetters you do not really want warm air.

 

Someone may correct you on the 30c but given my record with temperatures it will not be me.  😄

 

9 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Obviously there is not hot air from the exhaust on initial cold start so bear that in mind for your longer higher idle.

 

This might valve have been something more for emissions

 

 

Above the exhaust manifold there is a cover (yellow arrow) which has a socket where fits the hose which brings hot air inside the air filter box (green arrow) those first minutes.

Is this hot air except the better emissions can make the cold start easier? I have removed that hose many years so i can not remember if the ''second" cold starts of 2000-2001 were with a delay of 3:45 as i have the latest years.

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Is this hot air except the better emissions can make the cold start easier?

Sorry I do not follow this - but then I often misunderstand what is written (often more so if I have written it and read it back much later).

 

For 'second' cold starts it depends on if any warmth is left from the heat soak of turning off the engine and leaving the car parked or if all the heat has thoroughly dissipated from the engine bay and the cold has returned to whether there is any warmth to be had.

 

Always bear in mind I am not an expert in anything.  Easy though to tell if any warmth remains by lifting the bonnet and carefully putting your hand in that area, you may not be as precise as the electronics but your sense of touch is probably accurate enough to tell if the area feels stone cold or a slight bit or more of warmth.

 

Depending on how you took it apart, If you have enough of the system left you could bodge something together as an experiment if you really wanted to, any suitable and secure hose and duck tape fixings would do.

 

Again I am not sure of the benefits of this as if you removed this system and your car was fine, or not noticeably different, with it removed until a couple of years ago then it can at worse only be to some extent a contributing factor and not the cause.  If you had all the parts to hand and they all were fully working it would be easy but if you can get the parts and they are not expensive and it settles your mind to try then why not, it is your car, your money, your time, your decision, not mine or anyone else.  As some Americans might say it is "different strokes for different folks" or some say over here "each to their own". 

 

Edited 20 February, 20224 yr by nta16

2 hours ago, nta16 said:

Sorry I do not follow this - but then I often misunderstand what is written (often more so if I have written it and read it back much later).

 

For 'second' cold starts it depends on if any warmth is left from the heat soak of turning off the engine and leaving the car parked or if all the heat has thoroughly dissipated from the engine bay and the cold has returned to whether there is any warmth to be had.

 

When the engine starts the exhaust manifold starts getting hot thus some quantity of warmer air from the hose is transferred to the air box, there must be a reason for this isn't it?

I suspect that is to help the cold start that's why the clapet closes after a while.

 

After 6-7 hours i don't know how much heat can remain in the engine bay. My best cold starts is when the car was outside in the road for all night and the worst are when the car is parked inside a building.

It is to have a warmer inlet charge to minimise the fuel that condenses inside the cold inlet manifold, other vehicles use a water heated manifold but that takes much longer to operate, some had both systems.

19 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

When the engine starts the exhaust manifold starts getting hot thus some quantity of warmer air from the hose is transferred to the air box, there must be a reason for this isn't it?

I suspect that is to help the cold start that's why the clapet closes after a while.

Yes I was being too literal, after the (start of the) car has started yes the exhaust will get warm then hot, but -

 

19 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

My best cold starts is when the car was outside in the road for all night and the worst are when the car is parked inside a building.

So surely the car is colder sitting outside overnight than after being driven and parked up for 6-7 hours in a closed car park 5 floors(?) below ground level(?).

 

Edited 20 February, 20224 yr by nta16

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

So surely the car is colder sitting outside overnight than after being driven and parked up for 6-7 hours in a closed car park 5 floors(?) below ground level(?)

 

I didn't said the car is colder in that case, i said that my worst cold start are in that occasion so except if something ''magic'' is happening then this situation must be the cause.

Keep in mind that for 17 years the car was parked outside (not in a garage) in the road so after finishing my shift at night the 2nd cold start of the day was with the car cold (as in the morning/noon when i was starting from home).

The last 4years allow me to park my car in the garage to the end of it which is 5 floors below earth, has many benefits and only one drawback that 3:45 minutes of waiting.

 

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

It is to have a warmer inlet charge to minimise the fuel that condenses inside the cold inlet manifold, other vehicles use a water heated manifold but that takes much longer to operate, some had both systems.

 

So it's worth to reinstall that system as it was from the factory?

Only if they are reliable and will default to the cold inlet air setting if they fail.

 

Many of my first cars, Fords I think, had a swivelling inlet pipe to the air filter with winter and summer positions, in winter it would be swivelled down over the exhaust manifold to draw hotter air. They were fine for local journeys but not for regular long commuting journeys.

48 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

I didn't said the car is colder in that case, i said that my worst cold start are in that occasion so except if something ''magic'' is happening then this situation must be the cause.

Sorry my use of the question marks made the sentence confusing - I was suggesting being parked below ground for 6-7 hours the car might be warmer than sitting overnight outside.

 

51 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

The last 4years allow me to park my car in the garage to the end of it which is 5 floors below earth, has many benefits and only one drawback that 3:45 minutes of waiting.

This goes back to what was suggested previously that the environment might have some effect but obviously I have no idea about that environment and the conditions.

 

20 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Only if they are reliable and will default to the cold inlet air setting if they fail.

 

I can find a new Skoda Original air filter box from a local parts shop so everything would be as the 1st day.

It was a mistake from that i believed a guy then ''Hey, you have a ECU chip and  free air filter so you don't need that system".

 

7 minutes ago, nta16 said:

the environment might have some effect

 

Maybe the density of air plays some part, the oxygen is different, no fresh air down there.

8 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

no fresh air down there.

Probably another good reason not to be sitting down there in your car waiting more than seconds before driving off towards (relatively) fresh air.

 

After 20 years the original air filter box is in my hands again, take a look of the mechanism.

 

 

 

Upper entrance: hot air from the exhaust manifold

Right entrance: fresh air from the grille

 

The initial position is with the clapet closed which means the throttle gets air only from the upper entrance (hot air)

 

 

 

and later the clapet will removed and the throttle will get fresh air from the right entrance.

As you can see from my finger the spring is strong so how the clapet will open? The fresh air would have the capability to do this? The temperature of the hot air from the exhaust will make the mechanism to make the spring get shrink?

And every time the car stops (no incoming air) the clapet will close and the throttle will get hot air? Is this good for the engine?

 

 

The wax thermostat (the thing you're pushing with your thumb) has a pin that comes out/extends as the wax melts, which will compress the spring and move the flap/clapet.

In this application the wax will have a very low melting point, maybe around 20-30°C, so will soon extend the pin when there is a little warmed air around, and it will remain that way until it cools below that

 

Unfortunately, as they age, they tend to lose wax, which means the pin extrudes less and less, leading to the flap not opening fully, or at all.

I would think that in Greece, for most of the year, fixing the flap in the cold air only position will be best, unless you can demonstrate that this thermostat is working well.

 

Think of it like your coolant thermostat.  To test replicate the conditions you expect it to work under, take it outside where it is cold and get a hair dryer with speed/heat settings and at a steady rate apply and increase heat to the exhaust inlet tube area and you should see it operate, remove the heat for reverse.

 

Edited 22 February, 20224 yr by nta16