Ukraine - war ? UK only economic sanctions or military action too ? Is the Ukraine issue simple or complex ?

[@Lee]

16 minutes ago, roottoot said:

There has never been doubt that Putin will do what Putin wants to do.

 

But the UK is not sending in Peace Makers, and neither is NATO or the UN. 

All that they are doing is protecting NATO partners if even that when push comes to shove. 

Not even sure if Alexander 'Boris' DePfeffel Johnson is even serious about sanctions. In his speech the other day he said;

 

 

"And if Russia invades its neighbour, we will sanction Russian individuals and companies of strategic importance to the Russian state; and we will make it impossible for them to raise finance on the London capital markets; and we will open up the matryoshka dolls of Russian-owned companies and Russian-owned entities to find the ultimate beneficiaries within".

 

So only if? Why not now anyway? Too many people in UK politics benefitting directly or indirectly from Ruskie Roubles maybe in large brown paper envelopes or maybe in plain sight. Anyone for tennis? Well, er, er, ok but for £160,000. Da, ok 'Boris'. 

 

 

 

[xman]

And they 're off.......

 

Vladimir Putin has warned of “bloodshed” as he ordered Russian troops into two breakaway regions in eastern Ukraine, raising fears of a full-on invasion. 

The Russian president ordered the army across the border to "maintain peace", after he recognised the independence of the self-proclaimed republics of Donetsk and Luhansk in a televised address to the nation. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/21/vladimir-putin-orders-russian-forces-maintain-peace-ukraine/

 

Alternative to above link, same information,

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/21/russia-ukraine-news-latest-crisis-putin-biden-summit-kyiv-kiev-russian-invasion-threat-live-updates

 

Russian president has recognised Ukraine’s Luhansk and Donetsk regions as independent states: UN security council calls emergency meeting for Monday night. Follow the latest updates

• Putin orders troops into Donetsk and Luhansk on ‘peacekeeping duties’
• What would Russian recognition of breakaway Ukraine regions mean?
• Russia creating lists of Ukrainians to be killed or sent to camps, US claims

 

 

Is it possible that the meeting with President Xi before/after the Olympic opening ceremony, Vlad agreed to wait until the games were over?

 

Hope my son is safe, he is on a plane right now, returning from the Beijing games due to be crossing Russian/Ukrainian airspace in an hour or two. Maybe Singapore airlines will divert to avoid...🙏

Edited 22 February, 2022 by xman

[@Lee]

'And they're off' comes across as a bit flippant in my opinion. Better than 'And we're off' though I suppose.

 

Hope your lad gets back safe and sound. 

 

On another point I noticed you've posted another link from the Telegraph which is behind a paywall. My thoughts on the Telegraph aside, on 23rd of August 2021 we were told by @cheezemonkhai that "Any articles from behind a paywall, where the content is posted to avoid the paywall will be removed. (link or not)"

 

 

Again, not my rules but I do try my best to comply with rules. Rules such as using heads of state or Prime Ministers or  Presidents correct names. 

 

Edited 22 February, 2022 by @Lee

[xman]

5 minutes ago, @Lee said:

 

On another point I noticed you've posted another link from the Telegraph which is behind a paywall. My thoughts on the Telegraph aside, on 23rd of August 2021 we were told by @cheezemonkhai that "Any articles from behind a paywall, where the content is posted to avoid the paywall will be removed. (link or not)"

Edited my post to include a Guardian equivalent link which I hope meets with your approval.

 

7 minutes ago, @Lee said:

Again, not my rules but I do try my best to comply with rules. Rules such as using heads of state or Prime Ministers or  Presidents correct names. 

 

Did I spell Vlad wrong or was it Xi that was spelt wrong?

 

Or are you just nit picking?

 

As for flippant you're one to talk ....

 

But thanks for the concern about my son though, I really appreciate that

[xman]

More information

 

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/kremlin-says-no-concrete-plans-summit-with-biden-over-ukraine-2022-02-21/

 

It seems Macron and Scholz made no lasting (positive) impression on Putin.

 

 

[@Lee]

23 minutes ago, xman said:

Edited my post to include a Guardian equivalent link which I hope meets with your approval.

 

 

Did I spell Vlad wrong or was it Xi that was spelt wrong?

 

Or are you just nit picking?

 

As for flippant you're one to talk ....

 

But thanks for the concern about my son though, I really appreciate that

I know not whether you've incorrectly spelled their names nor do I care personally if you have.  They're both a pair of utter ******'s IMO. I'm not nit picking, just trying to abide by some of the rules on here even if they're rules I don't always agree with. 

 

As for your son, in case you don't know of it you can track his flight on flightradar24.com in real time. 

Edited 22 February, 2022 by @Lee

[xman]

1 minute ago, @Lee said:

 

As for your son, in case you don't know of it you can track his flight on flightradar24.com in real time. 

Thanks, yes I know, actually using uk.flightaware.com as Flightradar not tracking this flight for some reason. Last time I looked he was over Afghanistan about to go over Turkmenistan or Krygyzstan towards Kazakhstan in the general direction of Russia, bit of zigzagging going on , maybe to avoid certain airspaces.

 

Sometimes real time data is not always available for parts of a journey and then they just draw a estimated position, change of colour on the line drawn to denote that

[xman]

Maybe I'm reading this Reuters article wrong, or some US officials are talking out of turn, but it almost reads as if the US/Biden is not bothered about the latest developments.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-casts-doubt-biden-summit-with-putin-eyes-new-sanctions-tuesday-official-2022-02-21/

 

President Vladimir Putin's decision to send troops he called peacemakers into breakaway regions of Ukraine did not constitute a further invasion that would trigger a broader sanctions package, a Biden administration official told Reuters on Monday,

.

.

.

"This isn't a further invasion since it's territory that they've already occupied," that official said.

These statements seem to tally with the supposed faux pas made by Biden a few weeks ago saying a minor incursion would be ok.

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/is-biden-really-ok-with-a-minor-incursion-by-russia-into-ukraine-538

 

Which then was later retracted by officials

 

[Ootohere]

I wonder if the Ukraine is going to still be getting to borrow 1.7 Billion and if they will be getting 2 minehunters now.

 

That will be some of the Brexit Opportunities Ministers customers from his 2nd job not getting that chance to lend.

https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/uk-ukraine-credit-support-agreement

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-signs-deal-to-help-boost-ukraines-navy-in-the-face-of-increased-threat-from-russia-12470490

 

The UK is so very generous. 

Always right in there ready to help with the Contracts and loan agreement forms and good buy now pay later terms, 

low interest and big shares in minerals and other of the countries assets.

 

 

 

Edited 22 February, 2022 by roottoot

[@Lee]

Just seen on a German language website that Germany has halted certification for Nord Stream 2 'for the time being'. It might translate depending on if your browser supports translation.
https://www.rnd.de/politik/nord-stream-2-deutschland-stoppt-zertifizierung-JU6JZNKVCJHRBIFHDJHDAPPCNA.html
More here
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-germany-europe-berlin-79e3dafb0d231f6a033613b7dab78cdf


I also read that the UK will announce a 'package' of sanctions later on today in Parliament. That should please Sir Lyndsay Harvey Hoyle as he's been getting a bit annoyed with Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson otherwise known as Boris Johnson MP and PM announcing things beforehand. 

Not sure what Leave backer and funder Arron Fraser Andrew Banks's position on the situation is nor am I sure what Nigel Paul Farage's position is but they both seem to be blaming NATO! Back in 2017 Banks said "Ukraine is to Russia as the Isle of White is to the UK. It's Russian". I thought he was all for sovereignty of independent nations?

Edited 22 February, 2022 by @Lee

[Ootohere]

I wonder how much The Donald has invested in the Ukraine.

So much Tory interests in the money from the Ukraine among MP's like John Whittingdale MP, Lord Richard Risby.

Then there are those that have family members like Dominic Cummings brother in law who are in the know about where the money comes and goes from with the Ukraine.

 

2008

https://theguardian.com/politics/2008/oct/25/partyfunding-conservatives

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmytro_Firtash

https://www.bylinetimes.com/2019/10/23/firtash-how-the-trump-impeachment-scandal-leads-back-to-british-brexiteers

 

2015.

Ukrainian Cash.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 22 February, 2022 by roottoot

[xman]

Looks like some sanctions/knee jerk reactions are having an effect, not necessarily the desired effect.

 

 

Dmitry Medvedev is Russia's former president for those who don't know...

 

Benchmark European prices are currently trading at around €830 euros per 1,000 cubic metres.

Edited 22 February, 2022 by xman

[cheezemonkhai]

Wonder if Germany might turn on some of it’s cooling nuclear reactors.

Edited 22 February, 2022 by cheezemonkhai
Typo

[Ootohere]

@cheezemonkhaiSorry for being stupid but what do you mean?

 

Scotland is down to 1 nuclear power station and that might have to get closed down anytime if they can no longer keep patching it up.

 

It is just as well the UK is pretty much through a so far mild winter.

People can turn down or off their heating and really not freeze to death. 

 

Maybe they were going to anyway with prices as they are going but now they might have little choice if Industry is going to get the energy / gas required.

 

The cost of living will certainly be taking a hike as road, sea and air fuels cost considerably more as will transportation of goods and people. 

[cheezemonkhai]

31 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Wonder if Germany might turn on some of your cooling nuclear reactors.

Your should have been it’s.

 

Germany turned them all off (or said they would) after Fukushima. As a station isn’t just turned off but cooled over many years, I imagine a maintenance window and a restart for 5-10 years might not be off the cards.

[Ootohere]

We will see how long VW Group can keep building the various vehicle brands around European Countries if the gas is not flowing from the Ukraine and into and through Hungary. 

I wonder how long their car manufacturing carries on for in Russia. 

[AnnoyingPentium]

1 hour ago, roottoot said:

Scotland is down to 1 nuclear power station and that might have to get closed down anytime if they can no longer keep patching it up.

 

Hasn't Hunterston closed or are you referring to another one?

[Ootohere]

@AnnoyingPentiumTorness near Dunbar. 

https://theferret.scot/torness-nuclear-plant-close-cracks

It has had an eventful life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torness_nuclear_power_station

Good that the pilots could crash their plane other than into the Nuclear Power Station.

What a pity that jelly fish and seaweed can close it down. 

 

Edited 23 February, 2022 by roottoot

[@Lee]

Starmer's just asked Johnson if they'll pull the plug on Russia Today. Johnson waffled on about living in a democracy, free speech blah blah blah and said it's up to OfCom.

Pathetic. A Russian backed TV station is being allowed to peddle its propaganda and disinformation in the UK. The Lord Haw Haw of the Putin regime.
Hopefully OfCom pull the plug sooner rather than later.

Edited 23 February, 2022 by @Lee

[@Lee]

Blackford of the SNP asking the difficult questions about dirty Russian money in the UK. 

[Ootohere]

When censorship of RT comes up you get the likes of John Whiiingdale MP hot under the collar. 

Then the politicians with close ties to Russian and Ukrainian money.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/28/senior-tory-mps-accused-of-accepting-money-from-former-soviet-states

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-whistleblower-bosses-suppressing-russian-stories-lwzn2pm9x

 

Alex Salmond will always get mentioned but then that is for HMRC or anyone else to be looking into as he is an employee or contractor and clearly there as part of RT. 

 

Sometime there might be more looking into Politicians including present and ex Scottish elected ones and money from China. 

That is for the future though.

Edited 23 February, 2022 by roottoot

[lol-lol]

I look at RT/Russia Today now and then, especially when there is Russia specific items but also with the cost of living crisis and gas costs.

Just like Al Jazeera it is good to get someone else's perspective and especially during nationalist time when our own western journalism gets in to nationalist mode and becomes even more blinkered than the usual Oxbridge view of UK journalism.

Some great guests on Bloomberg also saying western politicians actually care very little about Ukraine and are likely to do just about nothing significant.

We just pray Nordstream 1 does not suddenly develop a fault, and the Yamal Russia Europe pipeline is not really working I gather which I have not heard mainstream news mention.  Will Germany use Nordstream 2 if it is the only way to get Russian gas ?

   

 

 

[@Lee]

Interesting piece on how people are debunking Russian false flag operations almost as they happen.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kb75e/the-internet-is-debunking-russian-war-propaganda-in-real-time

A possible example of one. The thread comes with a graphic content warning. I'll leave it as a link.
https://twitter.com/jason_paladino/status/1496518998703452160

Separate
 

 

Edited 23 February, 2022 by @Lee

[lol-lol]

 

Kharkiv area is likely to be next republic to moved on after Luhansk and Donetsk and perhaps the big question is whether to go up to the Dnieper river.

The main problem being the Kiev straddles the Dnieper.

Not common I agree with Boris and not Sir Kier but leave it too Ofcom as to whether RT is bias, or any more then GB News, Fox News in the US or those peddling UK newspapers with their skewered news.

The term "Full Tonto" is also racist and stereo typing of First Nation people. Disgusting.    

   

 

[cheezemonkhai]

If I had to speculate, I'd suggest Zaporishia and Kherson would be likely targets, such providing multiple routes to the military port in Sevastapol