Double or triple glazing?

[Gaz]

That's the old window on its way out cheeze  - this house is now a cockspur free zone.

 

Good news... we've found two faulty hinges, one of which prevented the lounge triple glazed unit from seating itself against a frame seal.  This is good news because having found it (it'll be replaced tomorrow) we've now managed to seat the window against the frame, and the result is near silence, and a vast improvement over what went before in terms of noise reduction 😎

 

But Houston, we have a problem.  Upstairs we could not have fanlight windows as it would make the opener below them too small in terms of means of escape.  So the side openers are full height, which I like, but overlooked was the matter of clearance, and unfortunately the top of the opener now fouls one of the soffit retaining screws (I reckon this could be overcome by counter-sinking the screw) but also the top of the window fouls a lip on the fascia that tucks under the soffit:

 

 

Options seems to be to lower the entire window frame, which is do-able.  Or take the soffit off and remove the board underneath it, thus re-fixing it perhaps 10mm higher than it was.  There's a question over whether the board underneath may be asbestos.  It never rains 🙄

 

Gaz

 

 

[cheezemonkhai]

Or remake the whole window 20mm shorter and add 20mm of frame header over the top.

 

If they measured it, then it’s kind of their problem if they were doing both. I imagine however something will be sorted, although if asbestos then that’s going to be interesting as the company shouldn’t have screwed into it.

 

On the plus side the damaged hinge stays being identified and replaced is good, especially if it provides near silence when fixed. 👍

[mac11irl]

all looking very good @Gaz

 

when ours were done the lads split the ensuite glass panel. 

ordered up and replaced it within 4 days. the plaster in the revels was barely dry. 

then i spotted a little white thread inside one unit, on the black spacer material. again replacement unit whistled up and popped in within a fortnight. dont be afraid to snag at a perfection level of expectation, its a feckin expensive and important upgrade and money outlay..

[cheezemonkhai]

You’ll have to let us know how that window is sorted and also if you’re happier than at first with the noise reduction once all snagged.

 

As said though, expectations of near perfection on the frames/glass are not unreasonable. Fitting should be similar although on older houses you can get a few places where perfect isn’t possible due to previous bodges etc.

 

All in all though it should be of a high standard.

[skomaz]

13 hours ago, Gaz said:

That's the old window on its way out cheeze  - this house is now a cockspur free zone.

 

Good news... we've found two faulty hinges, one of which prevented the lounge triple glazed unit from seating itself against a frame seal.  This is good news because having found it (it'll be replaced tomorrow) we've now managed to seat the window against the frame, and the result is near silence, and a vast improvement over what went before in terms of noise reduction 😎

 

But Houston, we have a problem.  Upstairs we could not have fanlight windows as it would make the opener below them too small in terms of means of escape.  So the side openers are full height, which I like, but overlooked was the matter of clearance, and unfortunately the top of the opener now fouls one of the soffit retaining screws (I reckon this could be overcome by counter-sinking the screw) but also the top of the window fouls a lip on the fascia that tucks under the soffit:

 

 

Options seems to be to lower the entire window frame, which is do-able.  Or take the soffit off and remove the board underneath it, thus re-fixing it perhaps 10mm higher than it was.  There's a question over whether the board underneath may be asbestos.  It never rains 🙄

 

Gaz

 

 

 

That's really poor and should have been picked up when the detailed measurements and window survey were carried out.  I'm assuming you're not paying for any alternations that will be needed?

 

We've just ordered new windows for the front of ours from a reputable company we've dealt with before and they've always been meticulous in terms of surveys, fitting, snagging and payment (nothing paid until the Client is 100% happy).

 

 

[Gaz]

3 hours ago, skomaz said:

That's really poor and should have been picked up when the detailed measurements and window survey were carried out.  I'm assuming you're not paying for any alternations that will be needed?

 

All sorted amicably and they're unfortunately going to have to take off the new fascias, soffits and guttering and start again.  I didn't agree to dropping the window frame as it felt that was dealing with a symptom, rather than the cause.

 

Many years experience of defects, snagging, practical completion et al has undoubtedly stood me in good stead.  I used to arrange major adaptations for disabled people, back even before there were Disabled Facilities Grants (and after).  When I first started working with contractors, great mirth was had at me using a marble to check the fall on newly installed wet room floors (Altro T20 iirc at the time).  What started off as funny, after a few jobs became a thing of fear, and 'Gary's marble' could make the hardiest of contractors break sweat.  Became a bit like a caesarian thumbs up, or down.

 

Avoidable problems, but c'est la vie.

 

Gaz

 

PS:  It's just been conceded that this could've been avoided, had the fascias, soffits, bargeboards, guttering and downpipes been done first, as was originally planned 🙄

PPS: The under soffit does look to be AIB - chaps are now wearing face masks.

 

Edited 8 June, 2022 by Gaz
More typo's

[cheezemonkhai]

22 hours ago, Gaz said:

 

All sorted amicably and they're unfortunately going to have to take off the new fascias, soffits and guttering and start again.  I didn't agree to dropping the window frame as it felt that was dealing with a symptom, rather than the cause.

 

Many years experience of defects, snagging, practical completion et al has undoubtedly stood me in good stead.  I used to arrange major adaptations for disabled people, back even before there were Disabled Facilities Grants (and after).  When I first started working with contractors, great mirth was had at me using a marble to check the fall on newly installed wet room floors (Altro T20 iirc at the time).  What started off as funny, after a few jobs became a thing of fear, and 'Gary's marble' could make the hardiest of contractors break sweat.  Became a bit like a caesarian thumbs up, or down.

 

Avoidable problems, but c'est la vie.

 

Gaz

 

PS:  It's just been conceded that this could've been avoided, had the fascias, soffits, bargeboards, guttering and downpipes been done first, as was originally planned 🙄

PPS: The under soffit does look to be AIB - chaps are now wearing face masks.

 

AIB is IIRC controlled and requires an asbestos licence’s removal company…

 

edit: appears it depends on time of work undertaken…

 

https://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/essentials/aib.htm

Edited 9 June, 2022 by cheezemonkhai

[Gaz]

Yeah, thanks cheeze, I'd already read up about working with AIB, and they're within working timeframes.  Today should hopefully be quicker as well.

 

G

[Gaz]

Before:

 

 

After:

 

 

Close, but a miss is as good as a mile, so that'll do.

 

Front and back all done now, just the gable end bargeboards and downpipes to do, which is what the scaffolding's for.  Scaffolding coming Saturday, rest of it booked in for next Wednesday.

 

Gaz

 

 

 

 

 

[cheezemonkhai]

5 hours ago, Gaz said:

Before:

 

 

After:

 

 

Close, but a miss is as good as a mile, so that'll do.

 

Front and back all done now, just the gable end bargeboards and downpipes to do, which is what the scaffolding's for.  Scaffolding coming Saturday, rest of it booked in for next Wednesday.

 

Gaz

 

 

 

 

 

Give that a check over towards the end of a warm day as both sets of plastic will expand 👍.

 

All seems to be moving in the right direction though. When do you get the hinges and damaged unit replaced?

[Gaz]

All done at last. (Edit: or so I thought...)

 

The bargeboards, drainpipes, cracked glazing unit and two faulty hinges were replaced yesterday.

 

But after the front door was closed and the fitters left I realised I could still hear traffic noise from one window that wasn't closing against the seal properly, so I called the company about it and a cracking chap called Rob turned up this morning.  He had both windows fixed in under ten minutes and while we were chatting he showed me the problem, because it was in reality both simple, and funny.  On both windows a left hand hinge was on a right hand window, and vice versa.  It was that simple. The angled chamfer that pulls the window in to close it against the frame was facing the wrong way so the act of puling the windows closed was forcing the hinge end away from the frame rather than pulling towards it.  Wish I'd taken a photo 🙄

 

Gaz

Edited 16 June, 2022 by Gaz

[Breezy_Pete]

Sorry Gaz, what did you say, couldn't hear you mate! 🙃

[Gaz]

Alas, I've gotten ahead of myself 🙄

 

The one window I hadn't checked is the one above Sally's desk on our front elevation.  Having just checked, it's fouling on the fascia:

 

 

Only just, but it's enough 😡  And the trim strip isn't bridging across both soffit boards at the joint.  Interestingly, in the room next-door, which is about 6' away, the same windows clear the fascia nicely. 

 

Given this was a known issue on the rear elevation, before work was started on the front, this is a bit disappointing.

 

I've emailed them photos.

 

G

Edited 16 June, 2022 by Gaz
Typo

[Gaz]

Now sorted:

 

 

And the gutter brackets, before:

 

 

And after:

 

 

So I think we're there.  Just the scaffolding to come down.

 

Gaz

 

[cheezemonkhai]

Jeez you had the premium fitter team then. Can’t believe the gutter clips or the wrong hinges (I assume replacements).

 

I assume the replacement hinge stays were for triple not double glazing if on those units? Big difference in the hinge weight rating for the two with triple requiring stronger stays. 👍

 

How are the noise levels so far?

 

The front of the house should also get less solar gain/keep more heat in in winter as a bonus too 👍

Edited 17 June, 2022 by cheezemonkhai

[skomaz]

44 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Jeez you had the premium fitter team then. Can’t believe the gutter clips or the wrong hinges (I assume replacements).

 

I assume the replacement hinge stays were for triple not double glazing if on those units? Big difference in the hinge weight rating for the two with triple requiring stronger stays. 👍

 

 

^^^   As above - looks like you got the B Team there!

[Gaz]

Agreed - it does go to show, doesn't it.  I'm from the old skool, measure twice cut once generation.  Everything that went awry was completely avoidable with a little attention to detail (save for the cracked pane - poo happens), and solutions for convenience don't float my boat.

 

I was given some BS about the gutter clips and the relatively small overhang of my roof tiles, so I asked if that was the case, why didn't they use rise and fall brackets.  Don't think they liked I'd been looking at options to improve what I felt was unsightly, even if you could only see it from certain angles.

 

What did surprise me was when Rob showed me the handed hinges (yes, they're the right ones cheeze), and that when opened to 90degs, but then returned to 0degs (i.e. window closed), they don't stop at 0, but can go the other way into minus degrees, making it even easier to get it wrong.  Notwithstanding that, the erroneous hinge take off the left window had a very clear 'RH' stamped on it 🙄

 

I think the manager who came out yesterday was a tad embarrassed at my disappointment that a known problem was immediately repeated.

 

C'est la vie.

 

Gaz

Edited 17 June, 2022 by Gaz
getting past the swear filter

[cheezemonkhai]

Still all quiet now 👍

[Gaz]

On Saturday I was removing a couple of lines of label residue from the replaced triple glazed unit.  They were very minor, but I could see them.  I went to wipe off another mark, but it turns out it's actually inside the unit.  A quick glance and there are six other marks which are the same 🙄  Another new unit needed!  I probably wouldn't have spotted them, had it not been for the label residue, as they sit behind a vertical blind:

 

 

 

 

And at tea time, Saturday evening we had a good rain shower.  There was a lot of noise out back, which turned out to be the new gutter overflowing.  Not easy to take a video while hanging out an upstairs window, and this screenshot from the video doesn't really show it, but the rainwater isn't flowing to the downpipe at any reasonable rate:

 

 

They've been back again today, confirmed the glazed unit is to be replaced, again 🙄 Have corrected the 'rise' in the gutter, so it now flows freely to the downpipe, and have additionally installed what they called cloaking, but I'd call flashing, under the roof tiles and over the rearward edge of the gutter (water was apparent running down the fascia, so the gutter was obviously pretty full):

 

 

Fingers crossed 🤞

 

With all that's happened, it's pretty lucky that I'm no longer working.  Mrs Gaz works from home and she wouldn't have time to deal with all this crap.

 

Gaz

 

 

 

 

Edited 28 June, 2022 by Gaz

[skomaz]

Sounds like you fell foul of the local cowboys?? 

Edited 28 June, 2022 by skomaz

[@Lee]

45 minutes ago, skomaz said:

Sounds like you fell foul of the local cowboys?? 

Gaz went with South Coast Installations if memory serves. Not a small outfit. Used to see a their vans out and about a lot. We were going to use them ourselves for our conservatory but went with an indy as SCI couldn't meet our requirements. I've not heard owt bad about them myself.

[skomaz]

Fair play to them they are sorting stuff out but Gaz has listed quite a few issues, a lot of which are either poor fitting, or poor quality control. 

[cheezemonkhai]

9 hours ago, skomaz said:

Fair play to them they are sorting stuff out but Gaz has listed quite a few issues, a lot of which are either poor fitting, or poor quality control. 

Although at least they’re fixing it. I do agree that most of the issues Gaz has seen shouldn’t have happened in the first place.

[gumdrop]

We had upvc windows fitted by our builder, much much cheaper than a double glazing company.

The air gap is larger and we felt the benefit straight away.

I would like to clad the house outside with pitch pine and a 3" gap at some stage.

[Gaz]

The company we went with are indeed not a small outfit.  They were also not the cheapest quote.  They have a good reputation, came personally recommended, a friend works for them and has been around to correct two issues.  I can't fault the after sales service for getting things sorted (even if they were avoidable).  When I showed the lads the video of water escaping the guttering, they were genuinely surprised, embarrassed and very apologetic.

 

This is my first foray into double glazing replacement.  It's an industry I'm completely unfamiliar with, so I have no yardstick (apart from common sense) as to whether my experience is the norm, nor if what's happened is par for the course.  But everything is being corrected, and once done I'll be happy.  I must admit to being quite bemused over this last glazed unit with the smudges in it though - how on earth did that get past QA?

 

Gaz