16 hours ago, marcb said:

Fabia Mk1 61 plate

 

There are no 61 plate (2011/12) MK 1 Fabias. More confusingly, it says 2010 in your pofile. Those would be MK 2 Fabias.

 

MK 1 ......

 

 

MK 2 ....

 

Edited 25 October, 20223 yr by TMB

Mine is a MK2 like the lower picture. 61 plate. I keep calling it a MK1.

7 hours ago, marcb said:

I see on the strut photos posted above, there's a hole the clamp bolt passes through. I guess the hole is to help get the wheel alignment in the ball park during assembly (and I guess the hole's position might even be calibrated at factory?). In my case I suspect the idiot mechanic wouldn't had respected that at all, likely bent it out of shape and render it useless. 

I do not believe your strut is fitted too high, to me it looks to be a different type of strut, probably aftermarket, maybe the vehicle had warranty or accident repairs, in any case unless someone drilled a new locating hole or cut off part of the locating tab it is impossible to fit the strut in anything other than its correct position, even were they to have done so it would not affect your tracking in any measurable way, your vehicle would sit a few mms higher on that corner not that any road is as flat as a billiard table, it would certainly have sat a lot lower with a broken coil spring end.

 

I am one of the biggest critics of garages but you do seem to be taking this a little out of proportion and finding faults the "idiot mechanic" has made that are not there and which are distracting you from the important task of finding why your vehicle is pulling to one side.

2 hours ago, marcb said:

So it seems then it's normal for these cars to drive fine and straight .... up until the first ever mechanical intervention.

 

Nobody has posted anything to suggest that, you are being overdramatic, that is not going to help you resolve the problem through the garage.

It's not just about pulling to one side. If I keep the car now I expect tyres edges will start rapidly wearing too and then ball joints, bushes and wheel bearings soon start to go.

 

 

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I do not believe your strut is fitted too high,

??Not quite with you on this?. The photos are quite revealing: rust markings on either side suggest one strut is now set higher than it was, and the other side now strut now set lower than it was.  So are you saying it doesn't matter and that has no significant measureable effect on camber/toe? 

 

Fair point but if it's not anything I've pointed out so far then for sure something else is bent or twisted, out of shape or misaligned, or missing, like for instance the carrier bracket plate that someone mentioned before. Does that measureably affect toe/camber then? As I understand the 4-wheel-laser-alighment "tracking" places won't touch these bolts, only fiddle with the track rod ends and hope it fixes it, and then say "your bushes are worn/ result of dry steering/ braking into corners/ tyres are worn..." etc etc as a reason why they can't correct the alignment with the trackrod ends. Have I got this right?.

 

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it is impossible to fit the strut in anything other than its correct position

Unless forced out of shape while in a hurry to get the job done?

 

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it would certainly have sat a lot lower with a broken coil spring end.

I doubt it ever had a coil spring issue to start with. The car is STILL on its original front brake pads and with plenty of thickness. This car only comes out a few days a month. And a broken spring? well that's completely impossible. I would had instantly noticed a pulling to one side or other on taking the car out. In any case the specific MOT failure was "fractured" not broken. They certainly didn't show me this supposedly defective spring, all I have is word for it. There'd never been an advisory from previous MOTs about an impending spring issue.

 

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a different type of strut, probably aftermarket

Looks different maybe beause it's been bent out of shape? I would be very surpised if it is an aftermarket strut, the car has no history at all hardly used, spends most of its life garaged.  Or maybe an aftermarket strut just now been fitted? !

 

Accident/warranty repairs previously? The car has no history as such before me I'm aware of, with me it's spent most it's life garaged, it's a low mileage time capsule. If it did had any previous repairs then I don't know about, in any case I've never noticed anything, I've never any issues with the car apart from a headlight bulb and a cracked rear tyre, that's all the history I have contributed. 

As to considering an 'idiot mechanic' or not, what's clear is the car was perfectly fine until this mechanic got into contact with it and cocked it up, having also left brake pipes flailing around, put back together wrong, missing brackets, letting me collect the MOTd car with a broken CV boot & red danger warning lights blinking, brake pedal like pressing down on a foam block, and more I've not mentioned, I think maybe someone else can put it better than me.

5 minutes ago, marcb said:

It's not just about pulling to one side. If I keep the car now I expect tyres edges will start rapidly wearing too and then ball joints, bushes and wheel bearings soon start to go.

 

 

??Not quite with you on this?. The photos are quite revealing: rust markings on either side suggest one strut is now set higher than it was, and the other side now strut now set lower than it was.  So are you saying it doesn't matter and that has no significant measureable effect on camber/toe? 

 

Fair point but if it's not anything I've pointed out so far then for sure something else is bent or twisted, out of shape or misaligned, or missing, like for instance the carrier bracket plate that someone mentioned before. Does that measureably affect toe/camber then? As I understand the 4-wheel-laser-alighment "tracking" places won't touch these bolts, only fiddle with the track rod ends and hope it fixes it, and then say "your bushes are worn/ result of dry steering/ braking into corners/ tyres are worn..." etc etc as a reason why they can't correct the alignment with the trackrod ends. Have I got this right?.

 

Unless forced out of shape while in a hurry to get the job done?

 

I doubt it ever had a coil spring issue to start with. The car is STILL on its original front brake pads and with plenty of thickness. This car only comes out a few days a month. And a broken spring? well that's completely impossible. I would had instantly noticed a pulling to one side or other on taking the car out. In any case the specific MOT failure was "fractured" not broken. They certainly didn't show me this supposedly defective spring, all I have is word for it. There'd never been an advisory from previous MOTs about an impending spring issue.

 

Looks different maybe beause it's been bent out of shape? I would be very surpised if it is an aftermarket strut, the car has no history at all hardly used, spends most of its life garaged.  Or maybe an aftermarket strut just now been fitted? !

 

Accident/warranty repairs previously? The car has no history as such before me I'm aware of, with me it's spent most it's life garaged, it's a low mileage time capsule. If it did had any previous repairs then I don't know about, in any case I've never noticed anything, I've never any issues with the car apart from a headlight bulb and a cracked rear tyre, that's all the history I have contributed. 

As to considering an 'idiot mechanic' or not, what's clear is the car was perfectly fine until this mechanic got into contact with it and cocked it up, having also left brake pipes flailing around, put back together wrong, missing brackets, letting me collect the MOTd car with a broken CV boot & red danger warning lights blinking, brake pedal like pressing down on a foam block, and more I've not mentioned, I think maybe someone else can put it better than me.

 

No, I think you've covered everything, I don't think you're being dramatic  the garage has taken a perfectly good car, ****ed it up and charged you for the privilege, has the new spring been seated correctly?

Write down all the issues, take it back and get them to sort it FOC, make sure you get a courtesy car too.

7 minutes ago, marcb said:

And a broken spring? well that's completely impossible

Rather common actually.  Often just half a coil or less at the bottom, or most commonly at the top, I think.

Fractured means broken anyway.

But I'm right with you on the struts being cocked up.

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

that is not going to help you resolve the problem through the garage.

With their past record so far as converting a minor MOT failure into a crop of future problems the last thing I'll do is go anywhere near this garage ever again, let alone expect them to be able to put anything right without causing more issues.

 

I'll recommend to anyone if you have a low mileage car like me that's never had any repair work since new and you want to keep it that way, to get a second MOT opinion before considering having "MOT work" done. Especially anything to do with engine or suspension.

Where did you take it for the MOT? Seems no harm in naming and shaming if you don't plan to try to get them to rectify anything?

27 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Where did you take it for the MOT? Seems no harm in naming and shaming if you don't plan to try to get them to rectify anything?

 

I don't think it will be fair to name and shame them because I get the impression the entire motor trade works like this and doing so just for them would be unfair discrimination. I do feel for motor mechanics they are under constant pressure to get through the order book and customers are always demanding cheaper prices. If a bolt doesn't come undone or a tool breaks on the job they have to cut corners to get things done. So covers and brackets are missing. The price of made-in-china throwaway society. 

 

I'll be naming and shaming them to the UK DVSA for letting me collect an MOTd car with MOT defects, the split CV boot, red ABS/etc lights and unsecured brake flexys reaching moving parts are all MOT failures. I can't prove any of this but if enough people do this the government will investigate and intervene for the benefit of national MOT test standards. I'll also leave a fair and factual online review. Businesses can use negative reviews to their advantage to make their best improvements.

 

Edited 25 October, 20223 yr by marcb

It won't be fair and factual if you do not report the faults to them and see what action they are willing to take and what comments they have to offer.

 

I say again you will not find a bigger critic of the motor trade in general than myself but I do feel its important to point out that many of your conclusions are a figment of your imagination.

2 hours ago, marcb said:

Not quite with you on this?. The photos are quite revealing: rust markings on either side suggest one strut is now set higher than it was, and the other side now strut now set lower than it was.  So are you saying it doesn't matter and that has no significant measureable effect on camber/toe? 

That is exactly what I said if you read it, I also dont agree with your conclusion regarding the heights, I have done this job many times, a strut could only be replaced higher or lower than its previous position by the clearance between the bolt and the hole in the locating bracket, a couple of mms at most. One strut is not the same as the other, you will probably find the original VAG sticker on the original one.

 

2 hours ago, marcb said:

then for sure something else is bent or twisted, out of shape or misaligned, or missing, like for instance the carrier bracket plate that someone mentioned before. Does that measureably affect toe/camber then?

 

No, its the plate welded to the strut with the hole for the pinch bolt, its job is to ensure the strut can only go into the steering knuckle in the correct alignment and to the correct depth of engagement, if it were buckled it would need straigtening before it could slide in.

2 hours ago, marcb said:

I doubt it ever had a coil spring issue to start with. The car is STILL on its original front brake pads and with plenty of thickness. This car only comes out a few days a month. And a broken spring? well that's completely impossible.

 

Far from it, in fact its close to a miracle that a VAG car of your vintage has never suffered a coil spring failure before now, every one I have had has broken a front coil at some time and the ones I replaced them with will in their turn break, its a very common known fault and someone recently posted a technical article about it explaining the true origin of the stress cracking.

2 hours ago, marcb said:

They certainly didn't show me this supposedly defective spring, all I have is word for it. There'd never been an advisory from previous MOTs about an impending spring issue.

Did you ask? I always am under the ramp with the tester on my CT inspections, you would not get an advisory of an impending spring failure, they are either intact or they break, very suddenly and very violently often when the car is at rest, I have never heard or been aware of any of my spring failures other than noticing the changed stance of the vehicle.

 

2 hours ago, marcb said:

It's not just about pulling to one side. If I keep the car now I expect tyres edges will start rapidly wearing too and then ball joints, bushes and wheel bearings soon start to go.

Then get it attended to, by an independant mechanic if you no longer have faith in the garage.

 

I understand that you are upset after having used a garage for the first time but it sounds like you already know all the reasons why not to, don't allow your imagination to create implausible events like ball joints, bushes and bearings running out, just get the steering pull attended to, my advice would be to have someone establish both front and rear axle alignments relative to the vehicle thrust line, don't use someone for 4 wheel alignment unless they really know what they are doing, it's easy to do yourself with a laser spirit level, some bungee cords and a paper template sticking out from the B post with the door closed.

 

It is always a mistake having a car MOT'd by a garage that does repairs or that you use for repairs, several local authorities run MOT centres that don't do repairs, my friend in the UK has run an MOT centre for decades and never ever done any repairs, thats his USP. In France you can be a CT testing centre or a garage but not both.

11 hours ago, TMB said:

I notice that one of your track rods has quite a bit more threads exposed than the other (I count about 13 threads on one and about 8 on the other).

While speaking to the service manager of the Marshalls Skoda a few minutes ago to book it in, I asked him about this and he says he's often seen new cars with non-equal number of threads here, I asked "even 8 /13 threads?" he said yes and it varies quite a bit. Interesting.

 

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figment of your imagination

Hmmm.....

 

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and see what action they are willing to take

Respond to online review.

 

Edited 25 October, 20223 yr by marcb

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One strut is not the same as the other, you will probably find the original VAG sticker on the original one.

I'll have to take a good look at each shock - just in case one really is an aftermarket. Would they had aftermarket struts avaiable before I acquired the car? 

 

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plate welded to the strut with the hole for the pinch bolt, its job is to ensure the strut can only go into the steering knuckle in the correct alignment and to the correct depth of engagement / a strut could only be replaced higher or lower than its previous position by the clearance between the bolt and the hole in the locating bracket, a couple of mms at most.

I understand your reasoning, But would this still apply if the hole position was distorted off-centre by a hammer or crowbar while the bolt in place and slack? It's only a flimsy sheet of painted mild steel.

The rust marks seem to show it's displaced by than these couple of mm's this device is supposed to define. 

 

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a miracle that a VAG car of your vintage has never suffered a coil spring failure before now / the stress cracking.

Honestly, the car hasn't gone anywhere it sits for months at a time in a garage block.  Doesn't a spring need to be flexing to get stress cracking? Could a spring crack just sitting years under static load not moving? 

 

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  Did you ask?

Oh I thought I made that clear. Yes, they said no, been thrown away.

 

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you would not get an advisory

I have often.  Once it turned out was just paint flaking off.

 

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get it attended to, by an independant mechanic

Already. Lesson learned.
 

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have someone establish both front and rear axle alignments relative to the vehicle thrust line / don't use someone for 4 wheel alignment unless they really know what they are doing

 

Exactly. I've now spoke to someone who knows what they're talking about.

 

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it's easy to do yourself with a laser spirit level, some bungee cords and a paper template sticking out from the B post with the door closed

 

I did consider that. With elastic thread and trignometry. 

 

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a mistake having a car MOT'd by a garage that does repairs or that you use for repairs, several local authorities run MOT centres that don't do repairs,

Yes! Exactly. I've seen this so many times but this is the first time I've been caught myself. Lesson learned.

 

3 hours ago, marcb said:

While speaking to the service manager of the Marshalls Skoda a few minutes ago to book it in, I asked him about this and he says he's often seen new cars with non-equal number of threads here, I asked "even 8 /13 threads?" he said yes and it varies quite a bit. Interesting.

 

Hmmm, I used to PDI (pre-delivery inspection) new Ford cars and never seen noticeably unequal threads on brand-new cars. Certainly not to the extent yours are. However, you wouldn't believe some of the faults that cars came out of the factory with!

 

By the way, mine has pulled slightly to the left ever since I've had it (2013) and just about everything on the steering/suspension has been renewed including tyres. It doesn't wear the tyres unevenly. I have seen people say that it's quite common with Fabias. I appreciate that yours was not pulling left before the work, though.

Edited 25 October, 20223 yr by TMB

4 hours ago, marcb said:

But would this still apply if the hole position was distorted off-centre by a hammer or crowbar while the bolt in place and slack? It's only a flimsy sheet of painted mild steel.

It is not a flimsy sheet of mild steel, from memory it is between 10g and 8g, almost plate, just think about what you are asking, when the 3 or 4mm section is within the knuckle and with the bolt through the H8 clearance hole what would they be hitting with a hammer or crowbar and how could it move a hole within the material by a distance that you believe it to have moved?

 

If you are unhappy with what you see then remove both struts from both steering knuckles and compare them, wo knows you might find for some unimaginable reason that when the odd strut was fitted all those years ago it was the wrong one and they had to drill or elongate a hole to get it to fit, my money is that it is simply different to the OE one as shown by the previous photographs. You could also take some measurements from the strut top mounting shoulder to the knuckle fixing hole on both struts.

 

In any case, at the risk of repeating myself whether one strut has the vehicle 1cm (for the sake of exaggeration) higher or lower from one side to the other is not going to put out your steering geometry by any measurable amount and will not create a steering pull, your suspension would oscillate more than that amount side to side even if you were driving over a frozen lake.

 

I hope your independant mechanic gets to the bottom of the problem(s) without relieving your wallet too much further.

4 hours ago, TMB said:

By the way, mine has pulled slightly to the left ever since I've had it (2013) and just about everything on the steering/suspension has been renewed including tyres. It doesn't wear the tyres unevenly. I have seen people say that it's quite common with Fabias. I appreciate that yours was not pulling left before the work, though.

 

Mine was like this, tracked straight and everything. Moving where the steering wheel lines up when replacing the wheel seems to have cured that issue.

22 hours ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

 

Mine was like this, tracked straight and everything. Moving where the steering wheel lines up when replacing the wheel seems to have cured that issue.

 

My steering wheel is straight when going straight, Ryan. It's the car that pulls slightly left if you let go of the steering wheel.

1 hour ago, TMB said:

 

My steering wheel is straight when going straight, Ryan. It's the car that pulls slightly left if you let go of the steering wheel.

 

Ohhh, in that case I've misunderstood. I think mine does that too, but I'm not 100% and I'm not going to find a straight road at this time of night to test it.

1 hour ago, TMB said:

 

My steering wheel is straight when going straight, Ryan. It's the car that pulls slightly left if you let go of the steering wheel.

Camber in the road?

Just now, @Lee said:

Camber in the road?

 

Does it even if I drive on the crown of the road. My previous car never did it.

Just now, TMB said:

 

Does it even if I drive on the crown of the road. My previous car never did it.

You still in a MkI Fabia? Mine would always tend to the left. Maybe it's that there's no rear adjustment on them? Just throwing an idea out there. Not had a MkI Fabia for a while now 

7 minutes ago, @Lee said:

You still in a MkI Fabia? Mine would always tend to the left. Maybe it's that there's no rear adjustment on them? Just throwing an idea out there. Not had a MkI Fabia for a while now 

 

Yep, still driving the same MK1 Fabia. I have seen quite a few people say that theirs pulled left as well. Better than pulling right though

Edited 26 October, 20223 yr by TMB

Just to add for something to check. 
Ensure the bottom ball joint nuts are tight and also the wishbone nuts and bolts have been tightened in the same place as before on both sides. 

Recently we encounter a Mk 4 Golf where the bottom ball joint nut had loosened on the drivers side allowing the joint to move up and down on the taper. 
The net result was that the steering pulled to the left and the wheel was round to the left even when driving straight. 
On the bottom of the strut clamp on the side where the strut is high you can see lots of hammering marks as they tried to get the strut lower into the clamp. 
Does the car sit flat on the ground or is it a bit higher on one side at the wheel arch?

17 hours ago, @Lee said:

You still in a MkI Fabia? Mine would always tend to the left. Maybe it's that there's no rear adjustment on them? Just throwing an idea out there. Not had a MkI Fabia for a while now 

 

Mine does it too, tested it today. I've never driven another car that's done it before. I wonder if the LHD ones go the other way... like some sort of "safety" feature?