2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

What was the end of this tale ?

 

I use Smart battery chargers which go through 8 stages of recharging starting with desulphur and try and nurse the battery back to life.

They have digital display as to what they are doing Amps, Volts, temperature etc as well as guessing what percentage of full health the battery is.

 

During early January one can get 20% off new batteries at some battery outlets and prices start at around £54 for a 70AH 650A CCA battery I recall.

 

Some battery chargers and starting device will not even do anything when voltage below 4 volts or so therefore need to have some jump juice from a healthy 12 first to put a few volts in to the dead battery and then one can pop on the smart battery charging device. Recently bought a 10A smart charger for less than £20 from Amazon.

 

If I am worried about my battery I will carry a small solar generator (basically just a lithium battery with a 240AC 200W inverter on it to give the car battery some charge.

 

Some cars are not moving to lithium batteries as we are in motorcycles as lithium batteries seem to have less problems than even standard, EFB or AGM batteries and are so much lighter.    

Morning LOL, did you mean 'are now moving to lithium batteries' - rather than 'not' in your last sentence? The only real problem I can see with Lithium batteries would be thermal runaway - but that certainly appears to be very rare now.  

I think he meant "Shame" instead of "Some".

 

Drive a screw into the side of any lithium battery and you will get a fire every time,   penetrating accidents might be rare but the risk is not diminished.

 

Please don't try this at home!

Edited 8 January, 20233 yr by J.R.

4 hours ago, Warrior193 said:

Morning LOL, did you mean 'are now moving to lithium batteries' - rather than 'not' in your last sentence? The only real problem I can see with Lithium batteries would be thermal runaway - but that certainly appears to be very rare now.  

 

Think I meant very few cars have moved to lithium for their 12v batteries where bikes have much more. 

On a motorcycle on already has 4 gallons of petrol between you legs so a potential incendiary devices under ones bum is just a bit more of the same.

 

The weight change in a bike is significant enough to show up in 0 to 60 a mbps and even in a car changing from lead to lithium can reduces kerb weight by about one percent so maybe a tenth quicker acceleration or a couple of miles more from a tankful.

 

Finding lithium battery suppliers is hard. Irene to use Tayna for my battery supply.

 

Edited 8 January, 20233 yr by lol-lol

Perhaps we will soon start to see lithium starter and hotel batteries (in EVs) being fitted as production costs drop. Note to self - do a search for cost comparison between AGM and Lithium ion batteries. 

Think I have finally found an answer to the "why are Lithium batteries used for motorbikes but not cars" in this article...https://www.batteriesplus.com/blog/power/lithium-starting

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Will LiFePO4 Work as a Cranking Battery?

The answer to this question largely depends on the application. If you are looking to use a lithium battery as a cranking battery in your car, truck, RV or boat then the answer is a resounding no. If you are looking for a battery for your motorcycle, jet ski or ATV, then yes, an X2Power LiFePO4 battery is a suitable choice for a starting battery

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I find the answer a bit weak as motorcycles can have quite large capacity and high compression/performance engines.  I put a lithium battery in my little 350cc Yam R3 and it worked well and would like to do the same in my 700cc Yam Tracer.  My Clio is only 898 cc, the Arkana is 1332 cc and the Zoe, ah that is pure electric 52 kWh.  I think it is the Lithiums tend to have Battery Management systems and which limit the amps per second to about what the AH is ie to one C. 100 AH lithium battery, 100 Amp limit.  Since one might need 600 or 700 Amps to start an engine when cold.  There is our mis-match. 

 

Perhaps a Lithium battery would need a charge build up in an super capacitor before blasting the starter motor with several hundred amps.  Think they might be using one here...

 

6 hours ago, J.R. said:

I think he meant "Shame" instead of "Some".

 

Drive a screw into the side of any lithium battery and you will get a fire every time,   penetrating accidents might be rare but the risk is not diminished.

 

Please don't try this at home!

Hi JR - while that is true for Lithium Ion and lithium Polymer (LiPo) cells, it seems that this is not the case with Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) cells. 

Edited 8 January, 20233 yr by Warrior193
added note.

17 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Think I have finally found an answer to the "why are Lithium batteries used for motorbikes but not cars" in this article...https://www.batteriesplus.com/blog/power/lithium-starting

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Will LiFePO4 Work as a Cranking Battery?

The answer to this question largely depends on the application. If you are looking to use a lithium battery as a cranking battery in your car, truck, RV or boat then the answer is a resounding no. If you are looking for a battery for your motorcycle, jet ski or ATV, then yes, an X2Power LiFePO4 battery is a suitable choice for a starting battery

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I find the answer a bit weak as motorcycles can have quite large capacity and high compression/performance engines.  I put a lithium battery in my little 350cc Yam R3 and it worked well and would like to do the same in my 700cc Yam Tracer.  My Clio is only 898 cc, the Arkana is 1332 cc and the Zoe, ah that is pure electric 52 kWh.  I think it is the Lithiums tend to have Battery Management systems and which limit the amps per second to about what the AH is ie to one C. 100 AH lithium battery, 100 Amp limit.  Since one might need 600 or 700 Amps to start an engine when cold.  There is our mis-match. 

 

Perhaps a Lithium battery would need a charge build up in an super capacitor before blasting the starter motor with several hundred amps.  Think they might be using one here...

 

There are some LiFePO4 batteries out there suitable for starting cars - some up to 1400 amps rating. Price is very high at present, but I can see that improving in future. 

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

Bit of a tangent but as my interest is more in over-priced and over-valued old cars called "classics" I used to follow this American chap's YT channel as he liked small British and other cars, and different vehicles, to actually drive and not as show queens, though how he ever gets time to drive, and sometimes race, all in his collection is beyond me.

 

Installing Ultra-capacitor and Onboard Battery Charger in Sunbeam Tiger (British two-seater with Ford V8 engines put in by manufacturer) - 

 

21 minutes ago, Warrior193 said:

There are some LiFePO4 batteries out there suitable for starting cars - some up to 1400 amps rating. Price is very high at present, but I can see that improving in future. 

 

I have a couple of largish lithium batteries which I use to down load lecky during my cheap 0030 to 0430 period, primarily charging the Zoe of course but also charge a Bluetti B180 and an Allpower S2000 Pro.

 

The Bluetti only has a 1000 watt inverter with 1200 W surve but the Allpowers has  2500 W constant inverter with 4000 W surge.  4000 watts would be well over 300 amps and these devices are improving with big steps each year.   

 

Tried the Zoe's granny charge cable, which is 10 Amps 2.2 to 2.4 kW I gather but Zoe did not lack the lack of earthing.  Bjorn Nyland has sold this with the ecoflow delta max he carries around when he runs EVs to absolute zero power sometimes 10, 20 and nearly 30 miles below zerom just like IC cars.

 

Good to see those who get stuck in Rufford using their starter motor to get out of the flood water once their engine stop due to most electricals shorting out but starter motor still cranking from the battery.  I especially enjoy the BMWs and Mercs failing.......

 

 

2 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

Bit of a tangent but as my interest is more in over-priced and over-valued old cars called "classics" I used to follow this American chap's YT channel as he liked small British and other cars, and different vehicles, to actually drive and not as show queens, though how he ever gets time to drive, and sometimes race, all in his collection is beyond me.

 

Installing Ultra-capacitor and Onboard Battery Charger in Sunbeam Tiger (British two-seater with Ford V8 engines put in by manufacturer) - 

 

 

A lot to be said for an isolated electrical backup that can be called in to help in an emergency.  We carry spare tyres, a light lithium charging battery is worth carrying in winter I reckon,

 

My brothers battery gave up at Collumpton service on NEw Years Eve eve.  Called out service and got a new one fitted for less than £100.  Sould wrong to me, a start stop battery should be EFB or AGM and a decent size and fitted, for less than a ton, I said he was a lucky man and send me the invoice as I suspect he has had a ordinary battery fitted rather than S/S tech. 

 

On 17/12/2022 at 13:28, Gaz said:

An ex work colleague has been medically refrained from driving.  She told me about it two days ago, silly plonker.

 

Her trusty '64 plate Nissan Juke hasn't been started since August 😳

 

I've just been round and it's dead as a dodo, not even LEDs coming on.

 

Looks like it might be the original battery:

 

 

And it's now in my garage, on charge, but at first sight taking bugger all amps:

 

 

So what do we think, will it pick up and be resuscitated, or has it departed this mortal coil?

 

I'll leave it on trickle for a good while, and check in on it from time to time.

 

A quid says it's dead.

 

Gaz

If its below a certain voltage you may need a C-Tec to get it started charging.

 

 

Just now, gumdrop said:

Under 6vdc it may need a C-tec to start it charging, if it will go at all.

 

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

5 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

A lot to be said for an isolated electrical backup that can be called in to help in an emergency.  We carry spare tyres, a light lithium charging battery is worth carrying in winter I reckon,

Coming from "classic" cars where some owners carry spares of all sorts just because they or someone they've read about once had an old part fail (or now new ****-poorly made cheap new part) they carry so many spares just in case.  Some really need to tow a trailer for all they think they might need, mainly because they don't drive the car often enough to get it reliable or to know how to properly drive it.

 

I believe in prevention over cure, I've had enough breakdowns and minor roadside repairs to last me three lifetimes.  Running out of battery power is like running out of fuel it's avoidable - though I've run out of petrol a few times, but not since my wife refused to ever push a car again, despite me doing the steering!

 

It may distress you as it did them when I put I'd not carried a spare wheel (jack, brace and kit) in many of my cars for decades, just a manual foot pump and reliable pressure gauge.  😁

 

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

47 minutes ago, gumdrop said:

Gaz

If its below a certain voltage you may need a C-Tec to get it started charging.

It's been charged up (not sure if fully) now and IIRC refitted to vehicle.  I've seen where others have put some chargers won't bother with below 6v others below 3v, there are ways around this and use of other chargers, C-Tec being one manufacturer, they always seem a bit expensive to me but if with a lot of use they still last decades then they may still be good value.  I've found some chargers don't like it when the weather is very cold or very hot which is why I bought the Ring RSC804 as it claims to operate down to -20c and up to 40c.

 

I've had/got loads of battery chargers/conditioners, some quite expensive, and nothing brings a battery back like a basic, low current charger. The best one I've found for bringing them back is a cheap solar panel if you've got a lot of time on your hands. I normally start them off with a day on that, then move to a charger that's probably 10 years older than me, but that has a 1A shunt on it. 

Edited 8 January, 20233 yr by StevesTruck

12 hours ago, lol-lol said:

What was the end of this tale ? 

 

Early days and nothing much to report really.

 

The battery hasn't been charged since 19th December and is still starting the car fine.  The car is sorned, so isn't being driven, just started and warmed through, so the battery will of course still gradually deteriorate.

 

I've just realised I've got two small solar pv units sitting out in the garage doing nothing, so I might go and connect them up.

 

Gaz

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Good to see those who get stuck in Rufford using their starter motor to get out of the flood water once their engine stop due to most electricals shorting out but starter motor still cranking from the battery.  I especially enjoy the BMWs and Mercs failing.......

They move among us.  Some add a layer of stupidity to their mistake flustered after the event but others start with a thick layer of stupidity and perhaps arrogance.  The bloke in the very old car paid for showing off as that should have made it across as far as I could make out.

 

I preferred the (showing off) of the Landies. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wetdTsck_vo

 

 

13 minutes ago, nta16 said:

I especially enjoy the BMWs and Mercs failing

one, two, three, another one bites the dust,...

1 hour ago, Gaz said:

 

Early days and nothing much to report really.

 

The battery hasn't been charged since 19th December and is still starting the car fine.  The car is sorned, so isn't being driven, just started and warmed through, so the battery will of course still gradually deteriorate.

 

I've just realised I've got two small solar pv units sitting out in the garage doing nothing, so I might go and connect them up.

 

Gaz

 

I use a pv panel on my mx5 when it's laid up over winter it works and extends the period between needing charges but isn't quite up to covering the aftermarket immobiliser drain given the short daylight hours we have at the moment... 

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

17 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

  28 minutes ago, nta16 said:

I especially enjoy the BMWs and Mercs failing

I didn't actually put that, it was part of the quote from lol-lol but as a total generalisation I do find the sort of people that own large models of those marques often tend to be less than the best of drivers and often arrogant but then all the other marques in that video had drivers that weren't the best drivers and some of them seemed to display arrogance perhaps.  Course you can't put anything about the Aldi drivers as it might upset some VAG owners here.  😁  😉

 

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

9 minutes ago, skomaz said:

I use a pv panel on my mx5 when it's laid up over winter

Saw a modern MX-5 being driven Wednesday very late afternoon - and with the roof down! mind he was only in his mid-40s of age.

 

19 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

Saw a modern MX-5 being driven Wednesday very late afternoon - and with the roof down! mind he was only in his mid-40s of age.

 

 

Yep mine used to be my all year car but at nearly 28 years old it's now got a pampered life.  However if its not raining the roof has alway been down whatever the temperature and still is. Unless it's being washed. 

45 minutes ago, nta16 said:

the Aldi drivers

Synonym for "the Audiots"?

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

12 hours ago, KenONeill said:

Synonym for "the Audiots"?

You might very well think that; but I couldn't possibly comment.

3 hours ago, nta16 said:

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

You might very well think that; but I couldn't possibly comment.

Indeed Sir Francis.