Karoq cam belt change - start saving now !

[KenONeill]

7 hours ago, NottsIan said:

they've made it difficult to lock the camshafts and therefore it needs electronically checking and adjusting when the belt has been replaced

Er, this was a thing for best results on the 1.9 TDi engines back in the mid-1990s.

Edited 8 February, 2023 by KenONeill

[NottsIan]

Seems from anecdotal evidence as though VAG have fitted an improved cambelt to these engines which in theory has an extended lifetime. They therefore decided that there was no need for a simple cambelt change mechanism as it is no longer a periodic requirement. There's obviously still a potential need for a cambelt to be removed and changed when other work may be required on the engine. In the factory, when they build engines, they set the cambelt timing electronically so decided that a similar system could be used for the 'once in a blue moon' case where it needed to be done in the dealer network. Of course, the test kit to do this is expensive, its not a problem in manufacturing, they're doing hundreds of engines and its economic. Of course, the franchised dealers are now forced/obliged to have this expensive kit which, in theory, is hardly ever used. The dealers dont like this, so decide (with the manufacturer approval in some regions?) to continue to advise that cambelt changes are necessary and thus make a suitable return on their investment in the test kit.

 

or am I just getting sceptical in my old age😀

[smipx]

I expect that the price will start to drop as the dealers get used to them and do more of them during 2023. At the moment I expect they are assuming the worst (and some are charging accordingly) and it will be a long job until they get used to them. As the recommendation (according to Skoda UK) is 5 years for post 2009 cars (official from their website) the first bunch of 1.5TSi ACT cars presumably have only just started to hit the 5 years mark so I expect that not to many changes have been made at any given dealership. 

 

I will be amazed if the price stays this high in say March 2024 onwards.  Mine is due August 2024 and at that point I'll use the online skoda booking system to scour the dealers within a 4 hour drive and by then, hopefully, one or two will have dropped the price by a few hundred quid as they hit a reality check.....   There is already over £100 difference in online quoted prices (based on VIN / Reg) between dealers 1 hour drive apart.  I expect this difference will increase or they will all push down a bit. 

 

Many of us are worrying about something that is not a problem just yet 🙂

 

That's my take on it anyway.

 

[smipx]

29 minutes ago, NottsIan said:

Seems from anecdotal evidence as though VAG have fitted an improved cambelt to these engines which in theory has an extended lifetime. They therefore decided that there was no need for a simple cambelt change mechanism as it is no longer a periodic requirement.

Except that it is a periodic requirement (recommendation) - every 5 years... so for folk who keep their cars for 9 or 10 years then it is effectively 2x £900 if they ever want to get book price in year 9 or 10.

Edited 9 February, 2023 by smipx

[skomaz]

6 hours ago, smipx said:

Except that it is a periodic requirement (recommendation) - every 5 years... so for folk who keep their cars for 9 or 10 years then it is effectively 2x £900 if they ever want to get book price in year 9 or 10.

 

But according to the official workshop manual it isn't - there is no periodic requirement to replace it...

[varooom]

5 minutes ago, skomaz said:

But according to the official workshop manual it isn't - there is no periodic requirement to replace it...

I bet the same "fight" is happening on Audi, VW & SEAT forum's, the unknown and conflicting information out there is not helping.

 

Factory manual says no,

Importer says X/Y

Forum member say's Y

[Ootohere]

Plenty will see the 5 year service on their almost no miles done 1.5 TSI ACT car and think get shot & a get a new one, not spending £2,500.

@ 5 Years.

MOT time.

Cam Belt.

Brake Fluid 2nd change.

Oil & Inspection Service & Extended Scope.

Told the brake are 80% worn needs discs and pads. 

AC Service. 

Suggested fuel treatment etc etc.  

 

?

Will the Dealers / Trader do the Cam Belt at 5 years before selling them on ? 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/510188-question-re-cambelt-vw-t-roc

 

 

[NottsIan]

7 hours ago, smipx said:

I will be amazed if the price stays this high in say March 2024 onwards.  Mine is due August 2024 and at that point I'll use the online skoda booking system to scour the dealers within a 4 hour drive and by then, hopefully, one or two will have dropped the price by a few hundred quid as they hit a reality check.....   

 

That's my take on it anyway.

 

I suspect you may be right, either that or VAG will come clean and change the recommended replacement period

[johnboy60]

According to Skoda Germany its a lifetime belt and does not need replacing

[Ootohere]

They are right, it will last it's lifetime.   Once we get to over 6 years of the 1.5 TSI ACT's production and use by paying customers we will get to know how long that is.

Maybe VW Group could put a 8 year warranty on the engines. 

German manufacturing is just fantastic and they procure only the best components from around the world for the cheapest they can get them. 

 

Vorsprung Durch Technik. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 10 February, 2023 by toot

[Karock]

A different car, different engine but when our son had the cam belt changed on his Octavia at 50.000 miles (or 5 years) the VAG trained independent in Bradford said he had never known a cam belt fail in all his years servicing VAG cars..

[DBSurrey]

39 minutes ago, Karock said:

A different car, different engine but when our son had the cam belt changed on his Octavia at 50.000 miles (or 5 years) the VAG trained independent in Bradford said he had never known a cam belt fail in all his years servicing VAG cars..

When was this ?  I can believe it.  However, they’ve probably learned how to reduce the “quality giveaway” on cam belts.

[Ootohere]

1.4 TSI ACT,s were introduced in 12 years ago so great if there have been no timing belt or tensioner issues with those on the original, the 1.5 TSI might be the same.

 

As to those getting work done on them and done wrongly, that is another story.

http://seatcupra.net/forums/threads/1-4-tsi-act-cambelt-nightmare.462431

 

[Driveucrazy]

 The problem is they do fail and the consequences are very expensive. Decades ago my cambelt failed on my Vauxhall, 3 weeks after a replacement. Wasn’t the cambelt that caused it but the water pump off the same belt. At least that design doesn’t apply to the 1.5 TSI petrol.

my friend had his replaced on his Diesel Octavia on the 5 year interval. He asked for his old parts to be returned. He is an engineer by trade and his visual inspection could not find any external sign of wear, and all tensioner bearings and water pump run smooth. 
I am sure an actuary would calculate that the cost of prevention for the entire engine population costs far more that rectifying the damage to the rare failure of modern belts.

but you have to allow for poor design. My daughter has a Yeti. Again recommended to have timing belt change at 5 years. However it is a chain not belt, so I investigated why. Turns out the tensioner is worked of the oil pressure and when/ if the chain stretches the the tensioner extends too far and retracts when the engine is turned off. On a cold start the chain doesn’t break, but can jump some cogs resulting in catastrophic damage before the tensioner pumps up.
such bad design should be the manufactures responsibility to correct as not fit for purpose, but that won’t happen soon. 

[skomaz]

The key message there is decades ago the cambelt failed on a vauxhall.

 

That's like me saying Ive had a mk 1 mx5 for nearly 25 years and can't remember ever changing the cambelt (maybe once donkeys years ago).  It's never failed.

 

It's a totally irrelevant statement in relation to modern engines from a different manufacturer.

 

To me given the complexity of the job and the workshop manual requiring no replacement there is more risk involved doing the job and getting it wrong than there is not doing it.

[smipx]

3 hours ago, skomaz said:

The key message there is decades ago the cambelt failed on a vauxhall.

 

That's like me saying Ive had a mk 1 mx5 for nearly 25 years and can't remember ever changing the cambelt (maybe once donkeys years ago).  It's never failed.

 

It's a totally irrelevant statement in relation to modern engines from a different manufacturer.

 

To me given the complexity of the job and the workshop manual requiring no replacement there is more risk involved doing the job and getting it wrong than there is not doing it.

Thats a fair point.   I agree but with the proviso that, should you be planning to keep the car for more than 3 years (say between 4 and 14) and then sell the car you will be paying for it anyway as the best part of £900 will most likely be knocked off the selling price (as it was never done and the dealers will know that is is a VAG UK recommendation) and any private buyer will know if they get any sort of inspection and/or are not naive) and they will see the VAG UK recommendation and think it is the word of the mother ship and will steer clear (if you ask for book price and won't budge because the factory says it never needs doing). I would walk away for sure and find the next seller that has done it - right or wrong morally. 

 

I would argue that it seems logical that if you plan to keep the car for 5-10 years then you may as well get it done at year 5 but only by VAG authorised garage) and have the benefit of your hard earned money and the peace of mind of the risk being reduced.  That way you get the benefit of what you are paying for (providing you get it done at an authorised dealer so they can take the hit if you have it done and then 1 week later you get all sorts of errors or, God fobid, the new belt snaps because it was not fitted correctly).  It is mostly the independent's that have had issues in the past from what I can see by trawling (not exclusively but mostly).

 

The fact is that, by hook or by crook you will have to foot the bill for at least one change of cambelt in one way or 'tother unless you sell a few months before Year 4.

 

And - I expect that if you complain to VAG head office in Germany they will tell you that each country has its own requirements and that the lack of a maintenance regime for it centrally is only the case where there is not a local country override.  That is a guess......

 

Edited 11 February, 2023 by smipx

[Driveucrazy]

Hi skomas,

let me explain the relevance.

as this is a Skoda Forum I thought it relevant to let the reader know it was a Vauxhall , not a skoda

 

The relevant  point was that a brand new belt was broken by an ancillary, namely the water pump failing.

despite the improvement in belt technology I understand this is still the case, the actual belt rarely fails. That is why as well as changing the belt,  Skoda change every tensioner etc, down to the last nut and washer. Cynic will say it is to maximize profit. You may think that , I could not possibly comment.

 

as I said the 1.5 TSI does not have the Water pump driven off the cambelt, so further reduces the need to change the belt. Only time will tell if the tensioners etc are of sufficient design and build quality to outlast the belt.

[Karock]

5 hours ago, DBSurrey said:

When was this ?  I can believe it.  However, they’ve probably learned how to reduce the “quality giveaway” on cam belts.

 

From memory It was about 5 years ago

[Ootohere]

Maybe ask @Crasherif there are ever Cambelt failure engines that come in to dealerships or ones that were caught in time.

 

There will be cars that get Cam belts replacements and the dealership staff will not be shooing them away and saying save your money.

There will be cars that do not get main dealer servicing and maintenance that have not had cam belts changed and if they fail are not likely to be getting taken to a main dealership to be rebuilt.

[skomaz]

For reference the cambelt on my Fabia TDI did over 80k in 5 years and was like new.  The car then went on to do 130k with us over 12 years and totalled 186k with a subsequent owner and the belt didn't fail.

 

The cambelt on our Octavia TDI did 6 years and about 60k and was like new when replaced.  The second one then lasted to 100k and 13 years and didn't fail.

 

When sold neither buyer asked about it.

 

Not really relevant given a different engine but shows failure is unlikely.

 

At the end of the day it's the owners choice but the costs being quoted for something that the official workshop manual says isn't needed are daft and probably equate to throwing money away.  Sure the belt could fail but the risks are very low.

 

And if you take it to a main dealer don't in any way kid yourself your getting a better more reliable service.  In my experience of some  the exact opposite is the case....   Hence the greater risk associated with having it done than not

Edited 11 February, 2023 by skomaz

[Ootohere]

Apples and pears again.   TDI's are a different kettle of fish oil.

Plenty of those about then still so have VW changed the recommendations?

& and then a members 1.6TDI was wrecked.  But then stuff happens.   

 

Just one unlucky.

Not the belt, and not at 5 years. 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/502505-engine-failure

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/502054-i-am-the-1-in-5

 

[skomaz]

2 minutes ago, toot said:

Apples and pears again.   TDI's are a different kettle of fish oil.

Plenty of those about then still so have VW changed the recommendations?

& and then a members 1.6TDI was wrecked.  But then stuff happens.   

 

Just one unlucky.

Not the belt, and not at 5 years. 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/502505-engine-failure

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/502054-i-am-the-1-in-5

 

 

As I said...   Not really relevant and is a comment like many others on here about completely different engines but does show belt failure is unlikely.

[Driveucrazy]

I agree. 
My car is going in for its 5 year service as part of a plan with extended warrantee. Probably last visit to main dealer, and wont have cambelt done ( Yet! )

 

[Ootohere]

An extended Warranty with a 1.5 TSI ACT would be simply clever as the engines are really not tried and tested, and especially if they have a DSG be that a DQ200 or a DQ381.

So Serviced to the Manufacturers Recommendations, Guidelines or Schedules.

 

With those with Haldex and a DQ381 that will be the Haldex & 3 years/ 30,000 miles.  With a keeper and a DQ381 people might leave the Oil change to 80,000 miles with a warranty but again that might not be the best of plans. 

[Driveucrazy]

Hi toot,

my 5 year warranted is just ending, had a couple of jobs done between 3 and 5 years so probably broke even, and had peace of mind during that period..

as a matter of interest, how do I know what DSG gearbox is in my car?