ULEZ and other similar schemes we are being told are all about clean air for everybody but are they really just a means of making money from motorists?

[Graham Butcher]

40 minutes ago, Rooted said:

The weather stations, the thing at road side, the around gardens / parks etc the white box with the thermometer in it is measuring 'Air Temperature'.  A the container in it rain fall.

 

Read a School Childs 'Learning sheet, read a BBC or MET explanation of Map colours.   Your Wind Sock at runways is wind direction, the weather station there is Air Temperature,

1.25 meters above the ground. 

That was what I thought but when @Crashersaid that they had changed to using ground temps, I thought that he knew that to be true?

[@Lee]

lol It seems traffic calming measures are popular and effective but Sunak didn't like the results

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/08/low-traffic-neighbourhoods-generally-popular-report-ordered-by-sunak-finds

lol #2  ULEZ helped London cut pollution faster than the rest of the UK
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/mar/08/sadiq-khan-hails-remarkable-progress-in-improving-london-air-quality?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

[Graham Butcher]

Personally I don't believe it, the true air quality as measured by unbiased organisations does not back up the claims, when in truth the quality is roughly the same as before. If you tell a lie often enough then people will begin to believe it and we have seen that played out before. 

Edited 9 March by Graham Butcher

[@Lee]

Now deleted tory Mayoral election campaign ad attacking ULEZ. They've lost the plot  

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1772297063469883777.html
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/25/tories-sadiq-khan-attack-ad-new-york-london?CMP=share_btn_url

 

 

 

[lol-lol]

1 hour ago, @Lee said:

Now deleted tory Mayoral election campaign ad attacking ULEZ. They've lost the plot  

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1772297063469883777.html
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/25/tories-sadiq-khan-attack-ad-new-york-london?CMP=share_btn_url

 

 

 

The Ministry of Truth getting ever more dirty in its campaigning.   More resignations and less Con MPs re-standing but the risk of ever more loony candidates is the worry. 

Oddschecker showing Cons are about 10 to 1 whereas Labour is 1 to 10 on it seems, cannot wait but the mess they will inherit.

 

Not that there is no money but there is £2.5T debt up from £1T only 14 years ago.  Not fixing the roof in the good time 2015 to 2020.

 

[@Lee]

13 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

The Ministry of Truth getting ever more dirty in its campaigning.   More resignations and less Con MPs re-standing but the risk of ever more loony candidates is the worry. 

Oddschecker showing Cons are about 10 to 1 whereas Labour is 1 to 10 on it seems, cannot wait but the mess they will inherit.

 

Not that there is no money but there is £2.5T debt up from £1T only 14 years ago.  Not fixing the roof in the good time 2015 to 2020.

 

 

Renowned polling expert Sir John Curtice has Labour at 99% to form the next Government. 
The tories should stand aside after the inevitible hammer blow coming in the local elections in May. I think their idea though is a scorched earth policy and raid what they can until Autumn.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/mar/27/rishi-sunaks-triple-lock-pension-conservatives-labour-angela-rayner-uk-politics-live?filterKeyEvents=false&page=with:block-6603f7fc8f0891b675f7695a

[Graham Butcher]

35 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

The Ministry of Truth getting ever more dirty in its campaigning.   More resignations and less Con MPs re-standing but the risk of ever more loony candidates is the worry. 

Oddschecker showing Cons are about 10 to 1 whereas Labour is 1 to 10 on it seems, cannot wait but the mess they will inherit.

 

Not that there is no money but there is £2.5T debt up from £1T only 14 years ago.  Not fixing the roof in the good time 2015 to 2020.

 

They have been busy getting the public purse into private hands and still more to come I fear. 

[mac11irl]

i dont know if this has been mentioned here already, and i thought i saved the video, but...

ULEZ protesters have started putting bat boxes over the cameras

 

genius... because any bat habitat is protected by law and you are not allowed to disturb them or move them, thus the cameras cannot be put back in service.

Im sure theres a clause that does allow the removal in certain circumstances but those clauses tend to have a lot of hoops to jump through..

 

[@Lee]

1 hour ago, mac11irl said:

i dont know if this has been mentioned here already, and i thought i saved the video, but...

ULEZ protesters have started putting bat boxes over the cameras

 

genius... because any bat habitat is protected by law and you are not allowed to disturb them or move them, thus the cameras cannot be put back in service.

Im sure theres a clause that does allow the removal in certain circumstances but those clauses tend to have a lot of hoops to jump through..

 

 

I doubt bats will be taking up residence on main roads tbh

Quick look inside with a cam, box empty? Rip it off and job done. 

something like 95% of Londoners cars are ULEZ compliant now so it's only an minority of a minority whining about it.

There was a hilarious story in the Daily Fail about a bridal shop owner moaning about all her customers have gone since ULEZ. Complete bowlocks of course but funny. 

[Graham Butcher]

4 minutes ago, @Lee said:

 

I doubt bats will be taking up residence on main roads tbh

Quick look inside with a cam, box empty? Rip it off and job done. 

something like 95% of Londoners cars are ULEZ compliant now so it's only an minority of a minority whining about it.

There was a hilarious story in the Daily Fail about a bridal shop owner moaning about all her customers have gone since ULEZ. Complete bowlocks of course but funny. 

It might well be the minority, but the chances are that they are ones doing low paid jobs and ones which we would consider to be vital and were more than likely classified as vital in the past events and these are the ones being hammered by the cost of going to work.

[@Lee]

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

It might well be the minority, but the chances are that they are ones doing low paid jobs and ones which we would consider to be vital and were more than likely classified as vital in the past events and these are the ones being hammered by the cost of going to work.

Any evidence for that?

Or, it could also be rich anti ULEZ people who refuse to get rid of their Chelsea tractors.

Do I have any evidence of that? Nope.

TBH I wouldn't be surprised if the same people moaning about ULEZ are the same ones who moaned about red zones back in the 90s. 

How old would the most modern non ULEZ diesel or petrol car be now anyway? 

 

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few 🖖

Edited 28 March by @Lee

[Graham Butcher]

4 hours ago, @Lee said:

Any evidence for that?

Or, it could also be rich anti ULEZ people who refuse to get rid of their Chelsea tractors.

Do I have any evidence of that? Nope.

TBH I wouldn't be surprised if the same people moaning about ULEZ are the same ones who moaned about red zones back in the 90s. 

How old would the most modern non ULEZ diesel or petrol car be now anyway? 

 

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few 🖖

Nope I don't have any evidence, just applying some logic to it. Clearly the poorest are more likely to have the oldest cars and it is those which are most polluting. My old Superb 2013 was Euro 5 and non compliant, but my current one 2016 is Euro 6 and is fully compliant, so a car does not have to be from the 90s to be chargeable. Also, the rich can afford to replace their cars more often and they like to have the latest models. 

Edited 28 March by Graham Butcher

[Ootohere]

The Supercar driving protesters are joined by Classic car owners and they have older cars.  Exempt are they not?

Then those in the modified cars and bothered about the elderly and disabled.   Vehicles 'Disabled class' for VED are exempt are they not? 

 

It is all a bit of a jolly for many protesting or turning up at protests is it not!

[Graham Butcher]

Well a 2005 Aston Martin emits 394gm/km CO2, costs £395 to tax a year and yet is ULEZ compliant so drivers of supercars of similar ages and newer should be exempt from the charges so I doubt that they would be complaining and much the same for the Chelsea tractors and other higher end vehicles. Of course, people less well off will be buying them as they become older and therefore affordable if their cars are not exempt then it will not be those cars that will be seen turning up at protests.

 

As to classic cars, yes they are exempt, so drivers of those cars etc are probably protesting as they also oppose what many see as yet another money grab? 

Edited 28 March by Graham Butcher

[Ootohere]

Those without ICE cars or the need to have food or goods delivered  by ICE vehicles that live in the areas should have the right to clean air.

That will be hardly anyone then.  

 

Those visiting on the odd occasion should maybe pay up and shut up.    But then people like being rebels with a cause, even if they are not affected. 

[J.R.]

8 hours ago, @Lee said:

How old would the most modern non ULEZ diesel or petrol car be now anyway? 

 

My vehicle, 2015, by far the newest vehicle I have ever owned, non ULEZ compliant.

 

Your 2015 blue Oxmoron, probably non compliant.

[Graham Butcher]

22 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

My vehicle, 2015, by far the newest vehicle I have ever owned, non ULEZ compliant.

 

Your 2015 blue Oxmoron, probably non compliant.

Have you actually ran your registration plate through the ULEZ checking website?  I notice that there are 2 checkboxes, 1 for UK registered, and the other non UK registered, so if you have then just maybe they might be saying that we don't you in London? 

 

As you can see, my old car was non-compliant

 

 

But my replacement car is complaint.

 

 

 

Check your Vehicle (tfl.gov.uk)

[Graham Butcher]

1 hour ago, Rooted said:

Those without ICE cars or the need to have food or goods delivered  by ICE vehicles that live in the areas should have the right to clean air.

That will be hardly anyone then.  

 

Those visiting on the odd occasion should maybe pay up and shut up.    But then people like being rebels with a cause, even if they are not affected. 

Don't believe all the guff that the authorities are telling you, the air in the UK is extremely clean and so is the air in London and is perfectly safe. There are far more PM2.5 particles coming from gas being burnt as a means of heating, cooking and industrial processes then there are coming from ICE, its just the motorist is a far easier target and a cash cow and suits the narrative. There are many millions living in houses, all burning gas and yet do not own a car, relying on public transport, so the car driver is easier revenue source.

Edited 28 March by Graham Butcher

[Stonekeeper]

9 hours ago, @Lee said:

How old would the most modern non ULEZ diesel or petrol car be now anyway? 

 

 

 

for Petrol it's euro 4  which is 2005

 

Diesel would be euro 6 which is sept 2015 by the time most complied for registration time

[Stonekeeper]

On a sort of related note,

 

Today i was behind a Brand new Nissan xtrail Eforce and  Epower

 

all-wheel drive, the dual-motor e4orce version can get returns of up to 43.8mpg. Emissions are increased over the front-wheel drive model, at up to 148g/km with the third row of seats.

 

Stopped at the lights engine stayed running!

Edited 28 March by Stonekeeper

[@Lee]

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Clearly the poorest are more likely to have the oldest cars and it is those which are most polluting. 

 

6 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

for Petrol it's euro 4  which is 2005

 

Diesel would be euro 6 which is sept 2015 by the time most complied for registration time

 

Apparently not then, Graham.

[Graham Butcher]

Just now, Stonekeeper said:

On a sort of related note,

 

Today i was behind a Brand new Nissan xtrail Eforce and  Epower

 

Stopped at the lights engine stayed running!

Not at surprised, the conditions such as battery level, engine temperature etc have to be at certain levels before the stop/start system can kick in, and then, some cars if not all cars fitted with that system, have a push button which cab switch this out of circuit, indeed there are even "cheat" systems on the market to permanently block this system from operating.

[@Lee]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

 

My vehicle, 2015, by far the newest vehicle I have ever owned, non ULEZ compliant.

 

Your 2015 blue Oxmoron, probably non compliant.

 

I wouldn't be driving to the UK and if I did and entered the ULEZ, where would they send the fine  

I've only ever driven into central London and what now constitutes the ULEZ once. I've always found it's far easier to travel to somewhere just outside the M25 and get the tube in. 

[Graham Butcher]

4 minutes ago, @Lee said:

 

 

Apparently not then, Graham.

Apparently not then??? My 2013 reg car was Euro 5 and my 2017 is Euro 6.

Edited 28 March by Graham Butcher

[Stonekeeper]

1 minute ago, Graham Butcher said:

Not at surprised, the conditions such as battery level, engine temperature etc have to be at certain levels before the stop/start system can kick in, and then, some cars if not all cars fitted with that system, have a push button which cab switch this out of circuit, indeed there are even "cheat" systems on the market to permanently block this system from operating.

 

 

The Nissan xtrail does not use the engine to move the car on that model.