Driveway or Road?

[Ootohere]

@skomaz  I know what the thread is about.  But it is Off Street parking, daytime or night time.

 

They ask the question, where do you park day.  Work, College etc, where do you park at night.

 

Many give the Registered Keepers address, Mum / Dads, not where their G/F, B/F, bit on the side lives or where they stay some or most of the time.

It has always been a load of B0llocks and nothing happens until maybe a Loss Adjuster is put in to deal with a claim / claims, like recent flooding incedents.

eg Brechin.  

[J.R.]

27 minutes ago, skomaz said:

As an aside why do you park end on rather than parallel?

Cannot obstruct the footpath by parking parallel.

[J.R.]

22 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

What's the "white" line of border stones shown near your house? That to me suggests an intended separator between private space and public space?

 

Footpath.

[PetrolDave]

39 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

That's the kerbline and edge of carriageway, or at least it's intended to be...

So the front of OPs car is parked in the carriageway - hence my suggestion that he declare parking on the road (even if it's a private road it's still likely to be a road in the eyes of an insurer).

[Winston_Woof]

54 minutes ago, skomaz said:

For insurance purposes that's a road.  On a drive you wouldn't be in a position whereby your car could be struck by passing traffic.  That picture clearly shows you can be and are within the carriageway.

 

As an aside why do you park end on rather than parallel?

for convenience and accessibility ( and it also leaves room for our neighbours visitors to have an additional space to use if required). Our visitors tend to park outside the kitchen window (red zone).

[Winston_Woof]

51 minutes ago, Rooted said:

@skomaz  I know what the thread is about.  But it is Off Street parking, daytime or night time.

 

They ask the question, where do you park day.  Work, College etc, where do you park at night.

 

Many give the Registered Keepers address, Mum / Dads, not where their G/F, B/F, bit on the side lives or where they stay some or most of the time.

It has always been a load of B0llocks and nothing happens until maybe a Loss Adjuster is put in to deal with a claim / claims, like recent flooding incedents.

eg Brechin.  

well as I mostly WFH the car is there a good 95% of the time it's not being used

[Winston_Woof]

1 hour ago, Winston_Woof said:

, got me thinking now, I dont think its tagged as a dead end from the main road, will have to check a little later lol)

Just walked out an looked, yup it's tagged a sa dead end form the main road

[Baxlin]

Mmm,  from the drone picture, I would definitely say it’s on the road, as is the one parked closer to the main road - extend the white road centre line, and it would curve round just in front of your car, but the ‘inbound’ lane would go right through your car.

Edited 20 February by Baxlin

[Winston_Woof]

Just now, Baxlin said:

Mmm,  from the drone picture, I would definitely say it’s on the road - extend the white road centre line, and it would curve round just in front of your car, but the ‘inbound’ lane would go right through your car.

the drone picture that is google maps lol.

Anyways as stated several posts back I've queried it with the insurance company for clarification.

[nta16]

@Winston_Woof having dealt in the past with a couple of much, much less complicated boundary issues I'd say whatever agency you ask you'd possibly get different answers, and different answers from different people in any one agency, but you want to know where you stand for car insurance.  This I believe will depend on the insurer, one insurer may view it differently to another, remember in the end there are two parties to the contract and neither is obliged to take the other so they will generally stick with how they have things even if another insurer sees it differently.

 

I have experience of how different insurers react differently to the same facts, give their interpretation and stick with it even if shown their interpretation is in the very small group against the vast (almost all) majority of insurers giving an opposing view.

 

You seem already to know and accept that many things in life aren't black or white and that with agencies not only can it be that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing they can often contradict each other and everyone else,  Also always bear in mind that mistakes can be made about recording things including maps, road marking and signs, etc. - not that I can know if any mistakes were made.  Personally I'd not put full faith into landowners / developers / builders companies (all three can be the same company with different names or branches anyway) and conveyance / surveillance / solicitors.

 

You could also worry about CCTV / data protection (though the Police won't as they often rely on it) and if you have a change of neighbour(s) or their behaviour or attitudes changes no matter how friendly, open and tolerant you and your other neighbours are.

 

Your land issue(s) I think if pursued could have some in the legal profession in bottles of plonk for a good while, whereas your car insurance answer you would have each year.  If you really wanted you could send the insurer or potential insurer all the details. plans and photos you've put up here for them to make a decision, not that I think they'd be really interested or bothered to do much checking.  If you got anything in writing from say the council to say it's a driveway whether that is right or wrong I bet the insurer would accept it - but of course I could be wrong and of course as you know council get stuff wrong and have incorrect mapping and details even in these days of "everything being on computers" (it's not).  🙂

 

Edited 20 February by nta16
spelling

[skomaz]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

 

Footpath.

 

I'm not trying to be an arse here but officially it's a footway.  A footpath is a formalised public right of way, usual across private land.  A footway is the area for pedestrians next to a carriageway, both of which form part of a highway.

[nta16]

23 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

Anyways as stated several posts back I've queried it with the insurance company for clarification.

Bugger, I missed that.  😄

 

Let us know their answer when you get it.  🙂

 

 

[xman]

I'd park it in the garage

[Winston_Woof]

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

You could also worry about CCTV / data protection (though the Police won't as they often rely on it) and if you have a change of neighbour(s) or their behaviour or attitudes changes no matter how friendly, open and tolerant you and your other neighbours are.

 

 

I do have some (small) signage up at the front of the property with a URL link that provides the following information




https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/domestic-cctv-systems/

2 minutes ago, xman said:

I'd park it in the garage

we have two cars and the garage is used for other purposes

[nta16]

You seem a more than reasonable person to me and do more than most, and with your CCTV, I could pick a few holes and if you have a disgruntled  neighbour or visitor they might find them and a few more that may or may not exist, you'll never please all the people and probably not all all of them all of the time, such is life.  The ICO link says it all about the wooliness of it all.  An old mate would know more as he's been in CCTV since the 80s mainly commercial but some domestic and one time (not) selling a government contract product which I think only ended up watching bails.  I've not done any (office and monkey, monkey installation assistance) work for him for many years back but his personal office system was at pixel level detection and blocking even then, course probably not as many pixels as now but I'd guess the trickle down programs and systems might be quite reasonable cost now - or specialist only and gone up in relative price.

 

How many garages do actually have cars in, modern cars are so big (and heavy) if they fit in the garage you need to exit the car through a sunroof.

 

Last week I was talking with a Property Manager (or whatever they're called now) and he was complaining about a conveyer(?) enquiring about the garage at a property we were in, it's actually a plastic and glass lean-to about 5' wide with single plastic and glass domestic door, you'd struggle to get a motorbike through the door.  😄  Someone before had mentioned a garage so there must be an error in some listing somewhere but a quick look at the plans, Google Earth Street View or heaven forbid site visit would confirm the matter.  Hacking the neighbour's doorbell opposite would be a waste of time as they have their door another side and inlet porch, not that I have a clue if you can as I'm not a criminal or have a criminal mind.

 

I hope that's your grass area on no.4 picture as some people like to get an allover suntan and it's not always an over-pleasant image on your retina and eye-worm.  😆

 

[Winston_Woof]

32 minutes ago, nta16 said:

You seem a more than reasonable person to me and do more than most, and with your CCTV, I could pick a few holes and if you have a disgruntled  neighbour or visitor they might find them and a few more that may or may not exist, you'll never please all the people and probably not all all of them all of the time, such is life.  The ICO link says it all about the wooliness of it all.  An old mate would know more as he's been in CCTV since the 80s mainly commercial but some domestic and one time (not) selling a government contract product which I think only ended up watching bails.  I've not done any (office and monkey, monkey installation assistance) work for him for many years back but his personal office system was at pixel level detection and blocking even then, course probably not as many pixels as now but I'd guess the trickle down programs and systems might be quite reasonable cost now - or specialist only and gone up in relative price.

 

How many garages do actually have cars in, modern cars are so big (and heavy) if they fit in the garage you need to exit the car through a sunroof.

 

Last week I was talking with a Property Manager (or whatever they're called now) and he was complaining about a conveyer(?) enquiring about the garage at a property we were in, it's actually a plastic and glass lean-to about 5' wide with single plastic and glass domestic door, you'd struggle to get a motorbike through the door.  😄  Someone before had mentioned a garage so there must be an error in some listing somewhere but a quick look at the plans, Google Earth Street View or heaven forbid site visit would confirm the matter.  Hacking the neighbour's doorbell opposite would be a waste of time as they have their door another side and inlet porch, not that I have a clue if you can as I'm not a criminal or have a criminal mind.

 

I hope that's your grass area on no.4 picture as some people like to get an allover suntan and it's not always an over-pleasant image on your retina and eye-worm.  😆

 

Garages are for motorbikes and heavy **** that you can't get in the loft lol

No it's our neighbours grass. They do have a hot tub but its directly behind the fence and out of view. Can see it clearly though from our upstairs windows and her daughter was indulging in there with her BF last year  ;o)

[Winston_Woof]

@nta16  appreciate the input and yes there probably are holes but as the ICO website states:

No. People have the right to install CCTV cameras and smart doorbells on their property. They should try to point cameras away from neighbours’ homes and gardens, shared spaces or public streets. But this is not always possible, and it is not illegal to do so.


I think I have minimised as much as possible and  also as I'm not recording audio as per Fairhurst v Woodard that should be less problematic given I can see no more than I can from the house windows and can only hear them when I'm outside.

Probably helps I went out of my way to speak to all the neighbours before installing and they all see it as a benefit

[nta16]

@Winston_Woof you've done a lot more than vast majority if not all, I wasn't trying to say you were illegal in anyway.  I'm like you I really value good neighbours or at least those that aren't too bad, I grew up on council estates, one where I literally had (new) clothes stolen of the washing line, and worse, we've lived here 42 years because the neighbours on the whole are very good (even me) but things change, people move and people change.

 

My mate done installations on commercial properties, one in the old red-light district we saw a few sights on the (time-lapse VCR in this case, digital was expensive then) recordings from there, high romance it wasn't, fast it was, even without speeding up the replay to get to the bit of recording the customer wanted but couldn't find for himself.  With one of the cameras on the old office building ("national headquarters") we were able to help one of our neighbours with his car being vandalised, nowhere near the time he said, it was a neighbour of his that he'd been drink with in the club that night that damaged the car as he left the club by himself, came as a surprise to the car owner who was expecting local kids.

 

My mate used to do a few covert installations, often for family businesses, often as simple as a hole in a cardboard box, simpler days, often it was to catch, or caught, a member of the family with their hand in the till or creating further stock shrinkage, not everything recorded or viewed is what you want to see and the people you trust or distrust turn out to be opposite.

 

Whatever happens wherever usually there's not enough cameras, or they're at the wrong angle, field of view, lighting, cleaning, maintenance, playback quality (even if view quality looks fine), computer stuff, power, time, etc. - but apart from that they can be good sometimes.  😆  

 

 

1 hour ago, Winston_Woof said:

I can see no more than I can from the house windows

Do you stand at your windows 24/7 or 23:00 -7:00 then.

 

I'm only joking.

 

I'm no expert on this, or anything else, but I think you have been very reasonable and so would most people, when you get someone that isn't reasonable with you generally it doesn't matter what you've done or not done if they're determine to stick to their attitude - and I don't think any of this will affect your car insurance question.

 

Some banks used to have some of the worst systems and camera(s) installation(s) and camera or system repairs (not that we done any of either) weren't popular in prisons, with the prisoners or some of the staff, one of the camera reps, who looked particular not from these shores, regaled us with a couple of stories of him being escorted though with the prisoners in their cells, he certainly needed his great sense of humour, it was all very nasty stuff for him to experience and to listen to but you just had to laugh with the way he told it.  Some of his companies cameras were literally bomb-proof, or resistant.  😄

 

[Winston_Woof]

9 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Do you stand at your windows 24/7 or 23:00 -7:00 then.

 

 

no, but my GFs 80 YO mother does lol

[J.R.]

10 hours ago, skomaz said:

 

I'm not trying to be an arse here but officially it's a footway.  A footpath is a formalised public right of way, usual across private land.  A footway is the area for pedestrians next to a carriageway, both of which form part of a highway.

Thanks for the explanation, I never knew that.

 

Am I right in my thinking that as there is the border of stones then pedestrians should have priority and vehicles should not park or drive on it?

 

My first thoughts at seeing the photos were "ugh, I would not want to live there" to be fair it looks no different to many photographs that I see on this forum of people vehicles parked at their modern homes, very little or no front gardens and cars parked on the footpaths all around, my house in the UK that I only sold 2 years ago was built in the 50's when there was little provision for vehicles, nonetheless every house had a driveway and space beside for a garage and pretty much 100% had garages built and were using them as garages when I bought there in the mid 80's, back then it had plenty of room for parking, much more than the then new build estates.

 

When I moved there there would be one car per household, a few with two, gradually over the years children had vehicles, familys got bigger, the garages got filled up with tat or converted to living space and cars started being parked all along every house frontage, if you didn't want to be looking at your neighbours childrens car in front of your garden then you made it into parking with a dropped kerb, gradually every front garden mine included became paved over but that still was not enough for the bigger families buying houses that had been massively extended.

 

It was a lovely community a cul de sac where I had the same neighbours for 3 decades but eventually the sheer volume of vehicles and one household in particular with loads of adult children with cars, their boyfriends & girlfriends cars and worse of all the parents dropping off and picking up children from the childminding business and their totally selfish parking blocking off the whole street destroyed the neigbourhood.

 

It sound like Winston Woof is very considerate and his neighbours likewise but the layout of that close with no front gardens, no seperation between the front doors and the road and footpath is a problem waiting to happen either when there are young children living or playing there or when they grow up and become car owners.

 

The legacy that I left to the close where I sold the house in the UK was to win by hook or by crook planning permission for a second dwelling beside mine meaning even more vehicles and worse still a shared driveway

[Winston_Woof]

15 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Thanks for the explanation, I never knew that.

 

Am I right in my thinking that as there is the border of stones then pedestrians should have priority and vehicles should not park or drive on it?

 

My first thoughts at seeing the photos were "ugh, I would not want to live there" to be fair it looks no different to many photographs that I see on this forum of people vehicles parked at their modern homes, very little or no front gardens and cars parked on the footpaths all around, my house in the UK that I only sold 2 years ago was built in the 50's when there was little provision for vehicles, nonetheless every house had a driveway and space beside for a garage and pretty much 100% had garages built and were using them as garages when I bought there in the mid 80's, back then it had plenty of room for parking, much more than the then new build estates.

 

When I moved there there would be one car per household, a few with two, gradually over the years children had vehicles, familys got bigger, the garages got filled up with tat or converted to living space and cars started being parked all along every house frontage, if you didn't want to be looking at your neighbours childrens car in front of your garden then you made it into parking with a dropped kerb, gradually every front garden mine included became paved over but that still was not enough for the bigger families buying houses that had been massively extended.

 

It was a lovely community a cul de sac where I had the same neighbours for 3 decades but eventually the sheer volume of vehicles and one household in particular with loads of adult children with cars, their boyfriends & girlfriends cars and worse of all the parents dropping off and picking up children from the childminding business and their totally selfish parking blocking off the whole street destroyed the neigbourhood.

 

It sound like Winston Woof is very considerate and his neighbours likewise but the layout of that close with no front gardens, no seperation between the front doors and the road and footpath is a problem waiting to happen either when there are young children living or playing there or when they grow up and become car owners.

 

The legacy that I left to the close where I sold the house in the UK was to win by hook or by crook planning permission for a second dwelling beside mine meaning even more vehicles and worse still a shared driveway

For reference my house has been here since approx 1824 (the oldest title deed I have in my possession though is dated 1837), the other 3 are modern additions in 2018 .

ALso to note, what is now the front of the house was originally the back , the front door was originally accessed via a footpath from the main road (one giveaway internally is that as you come down the stairs you go straight to what is now the back door.

As for kids, currently there are a couple of young teenagers and a toddler and as I (think I )mentioned  earlier what's nice is that we get very little (if any) traffic in here except the residents but I hear what you're saying

Its really sad that we don't still have the original land associated with this property (shown in Red below), it all being split off originally in around 1913ish which is (as far as I've been able to work out) when the row of miners cottages that were  opposite us and the smithy off to the left(& up) were demolished. The house to our right was built in around 1870ish by the original owner of this house (William Baxter) for his daughter when she married. Oh and there was also a small orchard to our left until around 1975 when some other new houses were built.

Now all we have is the leasehold of the section marked (approximately) in green.

Over the years the remainder of the land has been used variously as a timber yard, there's been an undertakers on here, a nursery and more latterly prior to the new houses being built  a car showroom

 

[Winston_Woof]

Oh and I've also been able to establish who has lived (or owned) this house since 1824 

1824 - 1837 Robert Baxter (rented the property from WIlliam Green the original freeholder)
1837 - 1895 William Baxter
1895 - 1909 James Hart
1909 - 1931 Moses Lowe
1931 - 1941 James Pendlebury
1941 - 1972 Mary Ellen Pendlebury (inherited the property on the death of her father James)
1972 – 1980? Millicent Rigby (bought the property in 1972 for £100 and "allowed" Mary to live here rent free until her death in around 1979)
1980? - 2013? Jean & Peter **** (inherited the property on the death of Jeans mother Millicent however never lived here as they live in house on main road below us and used the house mainly as a storage unit)
2013? - 2014 Lee **** (bought  the property from his mother on the death of his father Peter, mother still alive. Still owns the house on main road originally built by Millicent  & husband in 1925 however rents it out)
2014 – 2018 Ryan & Elizabeth ****
2018- Present Mike *** & Gail ****

Edited 20 February by Winston_Woof

[Paws4Thot]

Like the property history WW.

[J.R.]

Fascinating 👍

[J.R.]

Notice all the brick ****houses at the bottom of all the gardens of the terraced cottages with the road access behind them for removing the waste just like the miners cottage that my father was born in.

 

Your house being posh did not have one nor the road access to have one, it probably had a septic tank, are you on mains drainage now? I should have connected by now but waiting for a pal with a digger, the road only got mains drainage about 5 years ago.