8 minutes ago, Exkiwi said:

I really cant be bothered arguing the toss

Then don't, save your time and energy.

8 minutes ago, Exkiwi said:

but in my Passat and wifes Polo the same thing happened in both. Got hard to start Put a Ctek on them didnt last long and all the lights on and got them checked and didnt have enough guts to light a match. Both were only 4 years old and cars had only done about 4000km a year.

That's because you left it too late.

10 minutes ago, Exkiwi said:

Im not into f ing around with chargers to get an extra 6 months out

If you hadn't had left it so long you could have got many more years reliable use out of the battery with very, very little, very very easy (not even) work. Why did you bother with the Ctek in the first place.

14 minutes ago, Exkiwi said:

You do it your way

Yes I will, thank you.

14 minutes ago, Exkiwi said:

As an AGM battery is about $400 here I dont waste money if I dont have to.

Yes you do waste money when you don't have in regard to the $400 batteries.

17 minutes ago, Exkiwi said:

But it IS a fact that batteries can show a reasonable float charge but wont start the car.

Who said it wasn't(?).

18 minutes ago, Exkiwi said:

All I have to say as obviously we are diametrically opposed

Not necessarily - but I put up the vid to hopefully amuse you and build a bridge but it didn't work, my mistake. Up to you what you do, forget me but if you tone down and turn down some of the stuff you put you could possibly get along with more posters more often. You can ignore me and I'll try to ignore bits you put I don't like, 'ow's that for a deal.

Good God almighty people,

why do we have to bicker so?

this is a generally lovely forum to be on, and its up to us memebers to keep it like that.

@Exkiwi Differences of opinion happen, but its a lot easier to get along with a friendly tone than being confrontational even when opinions differ...

Takes 2 to bicker and it's unhelpful on a forum like this if somebody does not read the whole thread and understand what answers have already been given. Utterly pointless to repeat the same answers over and over IMHO of course.

Quick end of the week update....

The dealership initially said "the battery is not covered under the warranty, but I will speak to the head of business to see what we can do".

I have subsequently had an email from them to say the head of business has authorised the replacement of the battery at no charge to myself.

I am going to ignore that it is worded like it's them doing me a favour and take this as a win as it could have been so much more painful with them.

Once again, thanks to all the people offering advice here, it helped me get to where I am now!

Finally, after reading all these posts about people not taking care of their batteries as an ongoing concern, can you recommend anything I should be doing once the new one is fitted to ensure it's kept as good as it can be?

Thanks again everyone (and happy weekend too!)

Good result (hopefully) as long as they fit the same "size" of new battery either a VW Group branded Varta or another brand that you can trust, and code it into the car.

Going forward, how to get a "good" service life out of a car starter battery?:- a lot will ultimately depend on how you use the car, as in frequency of use and length of journeys. Maybe get a proper safe smart charger/maintainer and use that as and when you feel the need to.

I have a Feb 2011 Audi S4 which I don't use on short journeys if possible, I bought a CTEK smart charger to try to make life better for that battery, it was a VW Group branded Varta AGM, it never ever caused me any problems, that car does not have auto stop/start by the way, at the 10 years point, I thought that I had better replace it rather than have to suffer a battery failure due to old age, when away from home, so I replaced it with a Bosch AGM same size, still fit the CTEK now and again if that car is not being used. The original battery is still in my garage, is still being "topped up" every two months and it still, when out of circuit tests as being quite fit.

My wife has an August 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI, with an EFB battery, during Covid I bought a second CTEK(overkill/scatter cash) and made sure it was kept topped up. That car is now at just over 54,000 miles, is used frequently, and its battery still tests okay, auto stop/start still operates if/when I allow it to - the only exemption to that is after a steady dual carriageway, ie no "zooming and braking" it can end up harvesting the battery and so when I arrive at a complex set of traffic lights that have just gone to red, I enable auto stop/start - but it is not available, very annoying watching the extremely "good" average fuel economy slowly drop back a bit! Smart charging is quite good, but could be better so that the situation I outlined does not happen, I know how to avoid it - ie just drive a bit more aggressively just avoiding getting into an accident - but why bother doing that. It's replacement battery, an AGM Bosch, bought in a panic move just before Brexit - when Costco had a good deal running, unfortunately has not been required yet - I'm hoping to off load that into older daughter's 2019 Leon Cupra - but younger generation are not up for spending until after "the event", so her Exide EFB dies slowly but still gets the car started!

16 hours ago, zer081 said:

Finally, after reading all these posts about people not taking care of their batteries as an ongoing concern, can you recommend anything I should be doing once the new one is fitted to ensure it's kept as good as it can be?

Occasional preventative recharges with an appropriate battery charger following the instructions in the car's 'Owner's Manual' and in the booklet for the charger maintainer. Or if the car is to be lefty for weeks without use (not good for the car or battery) then disconnect the battery or connect up the charger maintainer to both recharge and maintain.

Up to you which charger maintainer you choose to buy and use, personally I think the CTek are overrated, over priced and valued based on the two copies of the same CTek model a mate has which giving varying results to each other, not good for the high price - but many users like them.

Lidl/Aldi sell perfectly good and long lasting charger maintainers for £15-£20, a neighbour's had one in regular use for years. and I've known of plenty of others that have bought them and use them. High price doesn't give much higher quality, I've had a cheap charger for 40+ years, stills works fine now.

I bought and have used for a few years now a Ring 804 Smartcharger for my wife's 2015 VWŠkoda Fabia Mk3 the current model is 904. 4-amps is more than enough, it takes a little longer but generally lower amps is better than higher (faster) amps for the battery. Other makes. models and suppliers are available. - https://shop.ringautomotive.com/rsc904-4a-smart-battery-charger-maintainer.html

Batteries like about 20C weather temperature and IIRC self-discharge twice as much at 30c and twice as much again at 40C, plus at those temperatures the air-con is going to be used more so bear in mind recharging for summer as well as winter. Some recharge at the same time they swap to or from winter tyres.

I always recharge to the Ring showing "FUL" even if that takes two sessions as the VW battery computer system only goes to about 80% to allow for regenerative top ups from braking and the battery will appreciate going to 100% even if the computer system will have it back to about 80%. Less wear on the battery means less work and wear on the alternator as they work with and for each other.

HTH. Good luck.

Not sure if there is a time limit on these posts, however, I read with interest the issues experienced.

I wan't sure if the "power consumption too high" was ever answered, or perhaps I missed it if it was.

With this particular message would you tend to think it was battery related, as I assume all is well now

When I got the battery tested it was down to 71% of it's performance when new.

I believe 70% is when a battery is classed as "dead" / in need of a replacement.

The dealership initially said that batteries are not covered under warranty, but after some pushing they agreed to replace it.

This was a couple of months ago now and since the new battery was installed stop start has worked flawlessly and I have not seen a return of that particular message.

Glad it's all sorted.

I was interested as ive got the same type of fault, I am going to get a new battery fitted but just wanted to know the reason for the message on the car

20 hours ago, EMike said:

I am going to get a new battery fitted but just wanted to know the reason for the message on the car

ETA: just realised the first paragraph here might have been covered in another thread (missed your member name) -

Try a long charge of your existing battery first, it might take many hours, overnight or perhaps more but patientive and time are good, low amperage charging (3,4, 5-amp charger maintainer). If you can't do it in one session do it in two or three if required, get the battery to it 100% - even if the car only wants 75-80% it'll be better for the battery to be at 100% of recharge.

The message will be to warn that your concussion is too high for the 'power' in the battery and what the alternator can keep up with and charge the battery. Usually it means the state of charge in the battery is low and the battery needs charging.

Think of it like spending too much for what's in your bank account (without overdraft available) you either need to slow down your spending or put more money into your bank account.

High electric consumers are electric power-steering, air-con, blower, heaters perhaps - or accumulative effect of constant low drain items like something you leave plugged in or switched on when the car engine (so alternator) not running.

HTH.

Edited 22 August, 202522 Aug by nta16
ETA:

21 hours ago, zer081 said:

I believe 70% is when a battery is classed as "dead" / in need of a replacement.

For a garage perhaps, this report of the battery's death might be exaggerated. But in your case you can ignore what anyone or machine says and go by your experience. They should have replaced your battery before they handed the car over to you or certainly when you made a repeated complaint about it but obviously they were hoping to get away with it and you buy a new battery, at least they saw sense (or gave in) in the end.

Do remember the new battery is newer but still a store that can be depleted so at some point (hopefully not too soon) need charging by driving or use of an appropriate charger maintainer. You will get (many) more years out of this new battery than an average owner by when required preventative (low, slow) recharging with an appropriate charger maintainer. Good luck.

Thanks for that information, it makes sense what you've said.

I have bought Ctek 5.0 amp charger and set it to recon, it charged battery within a day to fully charged. Voltage readings were 14.40 - 16.65 and finally 13.66 when finished.

In the morning I checked standing voltage and it was 12.2 volts, I thought that a little low, but I guess being an older battery maybe that was acceptable!

Yes sorry I totalled missed your name, I remember now you got the (to me over-priced and perhaps over-valued) CTek.

I'm not sure where you took the voltage readings but 16.65 sounds a typo.

12.2v depends when and how you took the reading but if it was with a digital multimeter a good number of hours after the battery had been charged and the car's system were awake then you could add say 0.2v or 0.3v to allow for that taking the battery to say 12.4v or 12.5v which is Ok(ish) but not great IF you recharged the battery to full (100% of what it can do). It really depends on hold well and long the battery holds that charge and how well it can be used (the drop test mentioned earlier in the thread).

Batteries do age but also it depends on their use, abuse and possible neglect as to how well you might be able to recover them, if they've been flogged too much and/or too then their recovery will be less, recharge(s) left too late (or too little).

Check the battery again, after the car hasn't been used for a good few hours or if used not long ago turn the headlights on for 60 seconds to take off the surface charge to give a truer voltage. When comparing readings consistence of equipment, method and conditions is important.

23 hours ago, EMike said:

Not sure if there is a time limit on these posts, however, I read with interest the issues experienced.

I wan't sure if the "power consumption too high" was ever answered, or perhaps I missed it if it was.

With this particular message would you tend to think it was battery related, as I assume all is well now

'Power consumption too high' is a message displayed as a reason for stop/start being inhibited (there are around 6 to 10 reasons in total) - it usually means that the battery voltage is below a set threshold - which could simply be because the vehicle has been static for a long period or subjected to repeated short trips. Frequent display of the message can indicate a failing battery, or a charging issue.

Unfortunately, my car is subject to short trips, so I suppose I will get these errors.

Those voltage readings were taken at random times from when I put the ctek charger on until is was fully charged.

The 13.66 volts was when charger had completed its charge but was still powered on.

The 12.2 volts was taken in the morning just to see what it said.

All the readings were taken across the battery terminals.

That's why I thought the 12.2 reading was a little low.

My name is Mike by the way.

Hi Mike, 12.2 volts is about 65% charged for EFB/AGM battery - but as NTA16 says, it depends on when the readings are taken.

To be accurate, the voltage reading needs to be taken when it is certain that the various control modules have all entered sleep mode - this can take at least 15 to 30 minutes after locking the vehicle, ideally, the hood latch detection switch should also be bypassed, although I get reasonably reliable readings for both the Octavia and Fabia without doing this last thing for shutdown.

You say your battery is 'older' are you able to see a date code stamp on the top of the negative terminal? The format is WW, YY.

Edited 22 August, 202522 Aug by Warrior193
question

No, I can't see any battery spec because of this connection cluster sat on top of the battery.

I was originally in another post, if that's what you call it, and I know you were all very helpful there.

I saw the stop/start issue here and read through it all.

That's what made me ask about the power too high message, which again has been answered for me.

I see what you mean about popping the bonnet, but leaving the controls to settle. What a world we live in now, I would never have thought of that.

I do recall when I connected the meter across the battery in the morning, the voltage started climbing back up. I'm guessing these readings were starting to climb after a minute or so, but I didn't take much notice then!

I've just noticed when I was about to close, some notications, when I looked it said congratulations you've reached the status of apprentice. Wow, that takes me back, so I'm allowed to make a few mistake now then, ha.

Mike just FYI a post is er, one post and the whole lot of posts is the the thread, e.g. this thread has the title "Stop/Start issue / Battery Question". Threads can be added to (and revived) years after the last post.

Somewhere I put a post with the voltage on the 4-year old (AGM) battery of my wife's 2015 the morning after the day before when it was charged to full, I can't remember for sure but think it was 12.6V then.

It depends on how long and how many times the "power consumption too high" has been up to the possible state of charge and state of health of the battery but if you follow consistent use of the battery charger maintainer to full battery recharge you'll soon learn if the battery is getting worse by its recovery and time to dropping again (allowing for use, abuse and neglect each time) and by consistent testing the next day.

No doubt we went through all the alternatives in the other thread.

It was the 16.65 that caught my wonky eye.

1 hour ago, EMike said:

I've just noticed when I was about to close, some notications, when I looked it said congratulations you've reached the status of apprentice. Wow, that takes me back, so I'm allowed to make a few mistake now then, ha.

Yeah, but it meant that you got all the sh1tty jobs too 😄

Thanks for that, I'll be talking like the rest of you at this rate.

Re that voltage, it seemed to go higher and higher as the charger continued, got me thinking i read it wrong now.

I'll try again and check it, probably next week now

Your description of battery voltage climbing on engine start could indicate any number of things:

The hot topic in this thread is worn out battery but it is not impossible that there is a higher than warranted current draw when the car is parked up, engine off. This could be due to something staying on when it should turn off. If the draw is high enough for long enough the batter will become noticeably discharged. You may recall in the old days we had ammeters in cars and a wise owner checked the ammeter settled to zero when the engine was turned off.

Overvoltage warnings are nearly always about the voltage regulator failing to do it's job. There is a slim chance the electronics have got it wrong so measuring the voltage with a meter is sensible.

I have a Jan 2019 Polo with only ~ 23000 miles, all short runs, stop/start used selectively.

The Battery SOC never exceeds 83%/85%, I have a DVM plugged into the internal power point which is quite reasonably accurate as checked with a accurate Multimeter, the voltage here always reads ~ 0.2V < than the battery terminal volts but is quite OK for checking charging pattern. The charging volts sits around 13.5V under normal driving but will always increase to 14.8V on the overrun.

Recently when the SOC was only 73% I went on a round trip of 2hrs duration and the battery charged continuoisly at 14.8V for most of the trips duration but did fall to 13.5V about 15 minutes before reaching home. The "SOC 73%" scan was taken just before that trip but the "SOC 83%" scan wasnt taken until a month + ~ 530 miles later, the scans may be oft interest.

What is interesting is that even with only a SOC of 73% the charging voltage/current fell from 14.96V/16.5A to 13.51V/2.2A in only 33 seconds, this with the car idling but once on the road continuously charged at 14.8V, BMS at its best for economy?

SOC 73%.txt SOC 83%.txt

Edited 23 August, 202523 Aug by Johngerard

Jeez All this Take your car to a battery shop and get it LOAD TESTED A battery can show a good float charge and still be stuffed

A load test as it says puts a set load across it and pulls it down to what it really is. Absolute sure way of testing. Takes 5 mins and saves all this stuffing around charging and recharging and its kaput anyway

Edited 24 August, 202524 Aug by Exkiwi

Why should I get my battery load tested?, its working perfectly, in 62 years of car owenrship, all from new, I've never done this and have never used a battery charger/tender, all my previous cars charged at a constant 14.2/14.4V and all lasted "for ever", all the cars were in the family (handed down) for well over 20 years and none ever had a battery problem, I changed the battery on handing them down after 10/12 years purely as a precautionary measure. This is the first car I've owned with a smart charging system so I purchased a DVM which I leave permanently plugged in and occasionally glance at it, I will soon know if the charging system is acting up, if not, and the car fails to start then I will just go away and buy a new battery, so far, the indications seem to say that I should get, hopefully, at least 8 years+, I would be quite happy with this. I would suggest that a reasonable load test is to monitor the battery voltage with a multimeter connected across the battery terminals while someone starts the car. Assuming any car battery is charging properly then like ourselves, age kills them as their internal resistance keeps building up, I think this car's battery new resistance showed a VCDS resistance of ~ 2mohms, its presently a indicated around 7mohms,assuming a starter load of say 300A then the voltage drop will be 300*7/1000, 2.1V, to give a battery terminal voltage approx 10.3V, eventually, this volage drop on starting will either not pull in the starter solenoid or fail to crank the engine.

Edited 24 August, 202524 Aug by Johngerard