urgent advice needed please

[jcblincs]

I have had a call from the dealer to say they cant find any faults with my alarm. They only thing they found was a low battery voltage which woudl trigger the alarm so they have charged the battery on a trickle charge.

THEY HAVE SAID AS THEY CANNOT PINPOINT A FAULT THAT THEY CAN RE-CHARGE TO SKODA UNDER WARRANTY THAT I WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR THE DIAGNOSTIC WORK :eek:

I told them "no way".

i need advice on where to go next- i told them that i will simply point blank refuse to pay. Can they keep my car if i dont pay ? Can I keep their courtesy car ?

They agreed to "meet half way" with the costs. I said no way. Its a new car under warranty and its faulty.

i am going on holiday tomorrow for a ski break and dont want all this hassle. Obviously i am a bit wound up as i have just come of the phone but i thought some of you on here could help and give me some objective advice please. thanks

[Skoda-Man]

I think that the law is on your side. If the is a clear fault in your car, which is new and has a warranty, there is no way in hell that you have to pay the costs. It is their problem to find the problem, not yours.

[jcblincs]

its getting a bit tricky. They are saying there is no fault other than a low battery voltage which is the result of me flattening it. I did flatten it in january - slightly. but the fault did not show up on the previous 3 visits so why now ?. I am negotiating with them now and skoda UK have agreed to pay a "contribution" as well. bottom line is i still have to pay something to get my car today otherwise i am told they can legal hang on to my car and take action to legally get their courtesy car back. not sure how true this is but really dont want to get into this mess - i am going to France tomorrow for a relaxing ski break and dont want this looming over us.

I am not convinced they have solved the problem anyway and they said if the alarm goes off again then they will refund any payment and continue to investigate the problem. I really dont think the alarm issue will go away just by charging the battery. I have had loads of flat batteries on other cars and my passat has a drain issue at the moment and goes flat every weekend - the alarm doesnt go off at all. maybe the superb is too complicated for its own good and a slight voltage drop is enough to set it off. Only time will tell i guess. I hope the problem is solved in one way but in a another I want it to go off again so I can get my money back and say "I told you so" !

[pcs7038]

Firstly, I'm not a lawyer. If you want water-tight advice, go to a lawyer, Citizens Advice or Trading Standards.

That said:

Sale of Goods Act requires a retailer to supply goods of merchantable quality. Your contract is with the dealer, not with Skoda, so it's not your problem if the dealer can't bill the warranty costs back to Skoda. However, enforcing that position is another matter.

Whether the dealer can keep your car if you don't pay probably depends on what - if anything - you signed when you dropped it off. However, he has the car and it would be difficult for you to retrieve it if he won't let you. If you have to pay anything, make it clear - in writing - that you are doing so under protest, that you reserve the right to seek to recover the payment at a later stage.

You certainly can't keep the courtesy car. Just because he is in the wrong, it doesn't make it right to keep his car. And you almost certainly will not be insured. Most insurance gives you third party cover to drive another car if driving with the owner's permission. If you are keeping it because he won't fix your car, doesn't give you permission. Oh and that's third party only cover, so if you are in an accident, your will be exposed.

You probably need to get Skoda involved. The dealer should be willing to confirm that (a) the fault exists and ( that he can't get a diagnostic code. If you are both giving the same story, they may be more likely to respond.

A thought on payment to secure release of your car. If you offer to pay the parts cost only, you have covered the dealer's out of pocket cost. He will be want to get his labour cost back, from Skoda, you want to get the parts cost back. Your interests are aligned.

[jcblincs]

thanks for you view, PCS. I agree with most things you say. The problem is there are no parts as they are just billing for diagnostics time. The other problem, as this is where it gets tricky, is that my local dealer didnt supply the car (lesson learnt for next time !) so my supplying dealer are 200miles away. There is thus little incentive for my local dealer to do anything but the minimum necessary. If I am honest then they are probably meeting that minimum standard and they need to recover their costs. Skoda UK are involved and I have had 2 telephone calls today from them to discuss / negotiate the issue.

[bigal rallyred]

It might be an idea to give your supplying dealer a call and see what they have to say.

I'm guessing they've done all the previous investigating to solve the same issue so may help with speaking to Skoda direct.

Unfortunately all the dealings I've had with Skoda CS have been a waste of time but that was a 2nd hand car not a new one.

I'd be wanting them to prove to you that the fault that you're paying a contribution towards has been rectified. I'd suggest offering to pay the small amount once you're happy that the work carried out is worth paying for.

It's always nice when dealers start to blame the customer for faults, on a brand new car I would expect the new alternator to work well enough to recharge a new battery so there must be a fault with one of these components.

All they have done on this occasion is charge a battery not fixed the reason for the voltage being low in the first place.

If you're going away for a holiday what are the chances of the battery being flat enough once you come back and what happens if your alarm goes off when you're away?

[jcblincs]

battery should not be flat when i get back as its been fine all the time. no issues starting or anything, alarm may go off when we are away but will be in airport carpark and apparently only goes off a finite number of times then stops. fingers crossed !! will pack jump leads and power pack just in case !!

have collected car and paid for some work - dealer reduced bill to 50% and skoda Uk contributed 50% of this so i paid 25%. they have assured me i will get it all back of the alarm goes off again and they will throw it back to skoda Uk

[dan123]

My thoughts;

Their behaviour IMHO is horrendous.

Do not apologise because they are not the supplying dealer, that is your absolute right. My gut feel is they are trying to "punish" you for daring to get a good deal.

I would be tempted to issue a claim against them (for the 25% you have paid) in the small claims track of the county court, that will focus their minds.

Dan

[Supurbia]

Sadly this was my experience of Skoda's backup policy, we'll fix the car but you have to pay, if we find a fault that is, which they also couldn't in my case, I wonder if it's the dealers or Skoda themselves that is the problem, it would suggest Skoda as the dealers with a few exceptions do not seem committed to providing a good service, this is indicitive of something not right in the background, as in reality a dealer should welcome work that should be covered by Skoda to keep themselves busy out back, I wonder if VW is the same, so far I've only had me pay for work done with them and it's been 1st class so far, but I wonder if I had a Passat if I'd face the same treatment if it went wrong.

[xmy]

Sad to hear about the alarm problems and before that the seat one. You say that you did flatten the battery slightly in January. If this was your fault then I can understand the dealer wanting some money to fix the alarm issue as they could be related.

However it's still very disappointing that you of all people have had so many problems. If you were on here praising your car then I'm sure that would help sell a few more Superbs. As it is your continuing problems just make me feel that Skodas are best avoided. If I was Skoda I would be doing everything I could to keep you onside simply because of your contribution to this forum.

FWIW my understanding from reading a number of car forums is that VW don't have a good reputation for customer service so I suspect they will be much the same as Skoda.

[tom1362]

BRAND NEW CAR = = = = WARRANTY

YOU PAY = = = = £0.00

YOU TELL THEM = = = = Goan-Fu-Kurself !!!!!

[jcblincs]

BRAND NEW CAR = = = = WARRANTY

YOU PAY = = = = £0.00

YOU TELL THEM = = = = Goan-Fu-Kurself !!!!!

unfortunately - in the real world -an attitude like that gets you nowhere as it simply gets people's backs up.

I had a meeting with the service manager and the master tech today. They showed me all the telemetry data from the car and talked me though their logic. I really dont think they are taking the pi55 - they are trying. They are in the control of Skoda a lot and the service manager did go and talk to the main man (Steve Horton) as he was so concerned about how this was making the dealership look. They agreed it was not fair for me to have to pay the full bill.

I am not 100% happy but i think the best think to do was what i did - pay the bill and then deal with the matter next week, after my holiday. we needed the car to get us and our skis to the airport.

if the alarm goes of i get a full refund and the investigation continues.

Life is too short to fight every battle to the bitter end. the bill came to about 1.5hrs pay for my wife - we have spent 10 times that in time so far !!

I will pursue the matter next week in a constructive fashion. In a way it would be really good if the alarm went off whilst I am away so i can go back and say "see - i was right. the route cause has not been found"

cheers for all your views - it does help.

[tom1362]

didn't mean to come across so bluntly,

But i must say that you are entitled to have any problems resolved with whatever you purchase..

To me , it just seems that If i buy a 50c packet of rich tea biscuit's inTesco's , i have more consumer rights should there be an issue, than if i fork out considerably more on a car thats just" out of the box" !!!:confused:

Anyways,

Best of luck and hopefully you can keep the credit card where it is .......(The wifes Handbag:D) !!!

[Burnsey]

Hope you have a great time on holidays. It's been a trying time but I'm sure the dealer you are dealing with have a point. You have a contract under sale of goods act with a dealer 200 miles away. Anything they do that isn't recovered from skoda UK, the supplying dealer or yourself is effectively goodwill, so you seem to be approaching it in the most constructive manner and the nearby dealer also, in a manner that might get them repeat service business. All needs to be done in a grown up fashion. One thing that can be contemplated is to have the dealer charge the supplying dealer to recover costs but skoda UK seem to be covering it anyway, as its under their warranty

best of luck, and remember to have a great time in the snow

[Fabia00]

Hi,

Really sorry to hear about the problems you are having with your car. Have you tried to get in touch with Whatcar? or Which magazine who may help to fight the problem on your behalf? At least it may get delt with a bit quicker and reduce some of the stress for you.

David

[Supurbia]

Jon, I assume you are taking the car on hols with you, if you are leaving it at a long term car park ask the staff if the alarm should go off if they could capture it on a mobile phone video, same thing if you are driving it and it goes off outside the hotel. hth.

[jcblincs]

back from hols now. dont think the alarm went off as the red led on the drivers door was still flashing (last time it went off at home the led came on constant to indicate the alarm had gone off - i am not 100% on this as I was a bit bleary eyd having just got out of bed - i will set the alarm off manually by sitting in the car and locking the doors)

airport carpark was not manned - large car park at Luton so could not get them to check

its all a waiting game now. I have paid £170 to the dealer. Its annoying and not right but not the end of the world if we end up having to accept this cost.

[RADIOTWO]

back from hols now. dont think the alarm went off as the red led on the drivers door was still flashing (last time it went off at home the led came on constant to indicate the alarm had gone off - i am not 100% on this as I was a bit bleary eyd having just got out of bed - i will set the alarm off manually by sitting in the car and locking the doors)

airport carpark was not manned - large car park at Luton so could not get them to check

its all a waiting game now. I have paid £170 to the dealer. Its annoying and not right but not the end of the world if we end up having to accept this cost.

Hi Jonathan

A couple of things,

You did not say what was wrong with the alarm, and the other question why was the battery low on charge (had you flattened it?)

I don't thing it was the same fult I had on my alarm, but I found every time we used the Microwave, it set the alarm off, or another problem it could be RF that is doing it.

Tell more about the times and conditions when it goes off ?

Radiotwo

[jcblincs]

Well - guess what......the alarm went off again this morning (3.30am). Car is going back to the dealer later today. The good news is i get all my money back as that was what was agreed last week when they were convinced the problem was down to the battery having been flattened (not covered by warranty). I said I was not convinced and I have been proven right. The bad news is that we are now at visit number 5 to solver the alarm issue.

i am waiting for the knock on my door from the pi55ed off neighbours as it always goes off in the night (this in itself is a bit odd - earliest time 3am and latest time 8.30am. never in the daytime)

so I am now thinking what the hell i do next. The dealer is trying and being helpful but ultimately I have had the car handed back to me 3 times now with the assurance that the problem is fixed. Clearly it is not. The diagnostic computer is showing "no faults". so how can the dealer fault find if there are no faults. We are going round in circles. I have emailed all the detail to skoda Uk and await there repsonse.

i think I am getting to the end of my tether now and seriously considering rejection. I dont want to but cant see any other solutions. help !!

[GrahamElegance]

I wonder if there is any chance that a milkman, or other early morning delivery person is "knocking" your car, either accidentally or on purpose! This seems more likely as it only happens early morning and I guess at your home, not at the airport!

[darrenm2001]

I don't thing it was the same fult I had on my alarm, but I found every time we used the Microwave, it set the alarm off, or another problem it could be RF that is doing it.

Reading that reminded me of something. I live in a block of low-rise flats and we have a communal car park. I owned a Furby vRS at the time and a neighbour had a 1.4 Fabia. By me unlocking or locking the doors (I can't remember which it was) with the keyfob buttons I could occasionally set off his car alarm. I thought it was just coincidence at first but after I'd done it three or four times I realised I was causing this weird behavior.

He never did work out it was me...

So the question is: Do you have a neighbour that leaves home or comes back during the early hours of the morning and drives something from the VAG family?

[Chris Westy]

Well - guess what......the alarm went off again this morning (3.30am). Car is going back to the dealer later today. The good news is i get all my money back as that was what was agreed last week when they were convinced the problem was down to the battery having been flattened (not covered by warranty). I said I was not convinced and I have been proven right. The bad news is that we are now at visit number 5 to solver the alarm issue.

i am waiting for the knock on my door from the pi55ed off neighbours as it always goes off in the night (this in itself is a bit odd - earliest time 3am and latest time 8.30am. never in the daytime)

so I am now thinking what the hell i do next. The dealer is trying and being helpful but ultimately I have had the car handed back to me 3 times now with the assurance that the problem is fixed. Clearly it is not. The diagnostic computer is showing "no faults". so how can the dealer fault find if there are no faults. We are going round in circles. I have emailed all the detail to skoda Uk and await there repsonse.

i think I am getting to the end of my tether now and seriously considering rejection. I dont want to but cant see any other solutions. help !!

Buy you're neighbours cat a nice big fish on the way home!

[jcblincs]

I wonder if there is any chance that a milkman, or other early morning delivery person is "knocking" your car, either accidentally or on purpose! This seems more likely as it only happens early morning and I guess at your home, not at the airport!

unlikely. we dont have a milkman on our street. dont think there will be any deliveries. its a small cul-de-sac with 10 houses in a village.

thanks for the lateral thinking !

no alarms go off on my other cars and had a VAG car parked in the same spot for 6 years with no alarm going off.

[jcblincs]

Reading that reminded me of something. I live in a block of low-rise flats and we have a communal car park. I owned a Furby vRS at the time and a neighbour had a 1.4 Fabia. By me unlocking or locking the doors (I can't remember which it was) with the keyfob buttons I could occasionally set off his car alarm. I thought it was just coincidence at first but after I'd done it three or four times I realised I was causing this weird behavior.

He never did work out it was me...

So the question is: Do you have a neighbour that leaves home or comes back during the early hours of the morning and drives something from the VAG family?

interesting thought. no other VAG cars on the street. only early starter is a postie but he goes out at about 5am and has a knackered old pug 306 !!

next time it goes off i will get out of bed and look. we do have some cars parked by nurses who work at the old folks home and they do random shifts.

[AJB1]

As an Electornics Engineer, I would suggest that EMC needs to be considered. I doubt it would be GSM - more "old" radio systems - like Taxis and CBs

Do you have anyone who arrives home in a Taxi at that time of day ?

Do you have any mad buggers with CBs and Linear amplifier nearby ?

Are you anywhere near any MOD establishments ? (Do NOT laught at this, this kind of thing really has happened and the MOD have paid out real money in compensation - Most famously at Fylingdales).

*IF* it is EMC, then it is not very likely to show up in the logs as a fault.

And "fixing" it would involve looking very closely at all connections and earth points - including things like the battery earth strap and engine earth strap. Some very strange things can happen with EMC. Most importantly would the grounding of the processor modules involved. For various reasons the length of wire between the module and "ground" is Crucial. If a local ground point is faulty, but the module is still effectively grounded by a more distant one in some way (very possible) - then the effect on EMC can be disasterous.

Rather than thrash around blindly - someone who really know what they are doing (as opposed to "reading fault codes" is going to be required. A sensible approach would be

a) If possible determine from memory which sensor(s) are triggering the alarm.

Double check this - do NOT rely on the manual.

simplest way to check this is "set the alarm", trigger the sensor, check that memory shows what you think it should show.

c) When you know which sensor, go to the sensor/switch etc. Check the Earth (if relevvant). With a meter. Even then, unscrew it and verify there isn't paint under the earth point.

d) Then follow the wire all the way to Module. Look for damage. Look for scuffing. Look for missing grommits, look for anything out of place

e) When the wire gets to the module, check the ground and supply to that module - extremely carefully. Check all the other functions of that module.

Ideally get a friendly taxi driver to park next to you and make some transmissions. See if this can trigger the alarm.

Anything you can do to make the problem "more repeatable" will help.

Andrew

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