Felicia Combi 1.3 - what oil?

[D.FYLAKTOS]

1 hour ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

How tf I'm I not seeing any of these except the rough cold start.

Please make a test when the oil is hot. 

 

Maybe you have a faulty pressure release valve or smth. 

 

5000rpms are useless in our engines in any case we have no reason to ever exceed 3500rpm

 

No problem when it's hot, even with that useless 15W-50, that sound like a construction compressor heard it first time with 15W-50, never-ever had it at least for 15+ years with other viscosities.

 

I don't know what the ''smth'' is.

 

My Felicia for many years can reach the 6100 rpm, of course i don't push it till there but 5000 rpm with 2nd-3rd gear in Mountain Roads for me it's very common.

 

 

 

Here are the results from tonight's round.

 

 

That Total 15W-50 is nothing than disappointment and i blame the 15W for these terrible results and engine rough behaviour, it's like an 80's carburettor car with Choke control closed.

I can't stand that cold start sound, all the dashboard is shaking like everything in there is slacken, it tears my heart out.

[Papez]

2 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

5000rpms are useless in our engines in any case we have no reason to ever exceed 3500rpm

 

Why? IMO the engine is useless under 3500. 😁 Max power is achieved at 5000RPM and even beyond that is higher than next gear. That's something that I liked about that engine.

[RicardoM]

It all depends on how long you want to have your car. If you rev it to the bone, you will kill the engine faster or smth. You can use alien oil engine from Mars, the engine will start to run $h|ttier and the fuel consumption will go to the roof. It is over.

[Thefeliciahacker]

8 hours ago, Papez said:

Why? IMO the engine is useless under 3500. 😁 Max power is achieved at 5000RPM and even beyond that is higher than next gear. That's something that I liked about that engine.

Happiest cruising range is from 1250 to 2250 then it gets noisy useful torque is avaliable from 2000 to 3500 rpm then it just drops off and you cause only nvh. 

Maybe I've taken it up to 4000 when in need but that happens once a year per say 

[Papez]

5 hours ago, RicardoM said:

It all depends on how long you want to have your car. If you rev it to the bone, you will kill the engine faster or smth.

 

Ocassional acceleration through the rev range with a warm engine won't kill anything - 320k here, I always accelerated all the way to the redline when it was needed and over my ownership, the consumption went down. Of course, slamming it right after start and keeping it on 3rd at 90km/h is something I didn't mean.

 

55 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Happiest cruising range is from 1250 to 2250 then it gets noisy useful torque is avaliable from 2000 to 3500 rpm then it just drops off and you cause only nvh. 

Maybe I've taken it up to 4000 when in need but that happens once a year per say 

 

Of course I didn't mean cruising at 5000rpm. @D.FYLAKTOS was referring to uphill acceleration which is circumstance where higher RPMs are useful.

I'd say that best practice for consumption is keeping it within the green area. There's torque drop between 2000-2500, so torque at 5000 is actually higher than at 2000. If torque drops that noticeably beyond 3500, something's wrong. It's not a VW engine, useful torque range is whole RPM range 😁

Edited 21 December, 2023 by Papez

[Thefeliciahacker]

1 hour ago, Papez said:

2000-2500

Nooo max torque is at 2600 rpm

[Papez]

14 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Nooo max torque is at 2600 rpm

 

On paper and a fresh engine. From what I've seen and experienced in two different cars, real peak on an older engine is around 3k RPM. 

 

[Thefeliciahacker]

14 minutes ago, Papez said:

On paper and a fresh engine. From what I've seen and experienced in two different cars, real peak on an older engine is around 3k RPM.

This graph says everything I say above 3.5k rpm the engine starts loosing torque. 

I tell you that above 3k the engine feels laboured, I much prefer to drive it up to 3250, in fact it's happy zone is BELOW 2k rpm there you have enough torque to putter along yet a very comfortable experience without noise nor vibrations. 

In the nvh department anything below 2500 is acceptable, everything more than 3000 is unacceptable so it try to keep my accelerations below that margin, maybe if in need I will go past 3500 but that is a very straneous task

[Thefeliciahacker]

7 hours ago, RicardoM said:

smth

Smth? wut ya mean wit Dat hommie? 

12 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

 

That Total 15W-50

Can you please perform quantitative measurements? 

[Papez]

1 hour ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

This graph says everything I say above 3.5k rpm the engine starts loosing torque. 

 

You said that the peak is at 2600RPM, that's why I posted this graph that corellates with my experience.

Yes, it starts losing torque, but only starts. It never drops bellow low range torque values, and power still increases. Power is what's needed for maximum acceleration. 

 

1 hour ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

in fact it's happy zone is BELOW 2k rpm there you have enough torque to putter along yet a very comfortable experience without noise nor vibrations. 

 

I experienced audible vibration accelerating below 2k rpm. I wouldn't call that happy zone. Cruising at that range on lower gears was fine, but acceleration below 2200-2500 was terrible, so even efficient driving required going up to 3000RPM to avoid that lower range and get to the highest gear as fast as possible.

 

1 hour ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

In the nvh department anything below 2500 is acceptable, everything more than 3000 is unacceptable so it try to keep my accelerations below that margin, maybe if in need I will go past 3500 but that is a very straneous task

 

In NVH I never found Felicia "acceptable", so it didn't matter if it was a bit noisier during overtaking. 

3k RPM is a weird zone, where driveshafts start to resonate - a functional mass damper on the longer one helps significantly with that. It was actually quieter at 4000RPM than 3500 😂 Agree that it sounds terrible, but once you push yourself, Felicia becomes surprisingly quick car. 

Edited 21 December, 2023 by Papez

[D.FYLAKTOS]

49 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Can you please perform quantitative measurements? 

 

Means what?

Dynamometer?

 

15 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

or smth. 

 

Which is what?

 

I asked for Mahle OC 981 oil filter and the seller said no, the weird is that looked a guide as as refference was ton the Mann W7123/43 but other.

He said has Meat & Doria 15193/9 ,on the label has VAG 5020700025 VAG Skoda and the Mann W712/43.

 

I have made a video with that terrible cold start sound with that dumpiest of all oils the 15W, i will upload it soon.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

OIL PRESSURE WARNING LIGHT - DOES IT INDICATE THE QUALITY OF THE FILTER?

 

Many people think that the quicker the oil pressure warning light goes off after replacing the oil filter, the better the quality of the installed filter. However, the time after the warning light goes off does not in any way indicate the quality of the filter. If the system works correctly, the light turns on because the newly installed filter is empty for a brief moment. After a few seconds, the oil from the oil gallery reaches the interior of the filter and the light goes off.

 

There may be a problem if after starting the engine, the low oil pressure warning light does not go off after a while. In this case, turn off the engine immediately and check the engine oil level. Add more oil if necessary. If the warning light does not go off at the correct oil level, it may be caused by one of the following reasons:

The oil pressure sensor may be malfunctioning.

The cable between the warning light and the sensor may be damaged.

The oil pump is not filled with oil (may be aerated).

Obstruction of the line connecting the oil pump to the oil pan.

High wear of the engine (bushes, bearings), and thus too low pressure in the oil gallery.

The reason for the oil warning light not going off may also be the condition of the filter:

The flow resistance may be too high due to the installation of an incorrect or weak filter

Filling the filter after its expiry date

By using FILTRON oil filters, you can be sure that if the oil pressure warning light does not go off after replacement then it is not related to a malfunction of the filter. Each FILTRON oil filter is manufactured on modern, automated production lines operated by qualified specialists. The effectiveness of our filters and the quality of the raw materials used are constantly monitored and controlled in our laboratory.

 

https://filtron.eu/en/insights/filter-guide/oil-pressure-warning-light-meaning.html

[Papez]

7 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

By using FILTRON oil filters, you can be sure that if the oil pressure warning light does not go off after replacement then it is not related to a malfunction of the filter. Each FILTRON oil filter is manufactured on modern, automated production lines operated by qualified specialists. The effectiveness of our filters and the quality of the raw materials used are constantly monitored and controlled in our laboratory.

 

Ironic. Filtron was one of the filters that didn't have functional anti-drain valve and caused long interval of pressurisation.

They are Mann subsidiary but I guess that they sell lower quality filters that didn't pass Mann QC. 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

 

 

Here is the engine sound from that cursed 15W-50 engine oil.

See the sound graph, after the first crank the idle went to 900 rpm and stayed there, what i had all these years (needle at 1100 rpm and after 3:40 minutes to proper idle level) never-ever showed up with that ridiculous 15W-50 Total.

One of the worst decision of my life was to put that 15W-50 in my car, a terrible mistake and i regret it so much.

My Trusty was working like an old tractor and ripped my heart that i pushed more than 4000 with that stupid-crappy oil.

All i want is to behead the bottle cap, hang the bottle, stab and shoot it, burn the remains and throw the ashes to the pit latrine. 🤬

 

[Thefeliciahacker]

2 hours ago, Papez said:

a functional mass damper on the longer one helps significantly with that

can you give me a part number plz

[Thefeliciahacker]

41 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

 

Here is the engine sound from that cursed 15W-50 engine oil.

See the sound graph, after the first crank the idle went to 900 rpm and stayed there, what i had all these years (needle at 1100 rpm and after 3:40 minutes to proper idle level) never-ever showed up with that ridiculous 15W-50 Total.

One of the worst decision of my life was to put that 15W-50 in my car, a terrible mistake and i regret it so much.

My Trusty was working like an old tractor and ripped my heart that i pushed more than 4000 with that stupid-crappy oil.

All i want is to behead the bottle cap, hang the bottle, stab and shoot it, burn the remains and throw the ashes to the pit latrine. 🤬

Absolutely normal, please take an unbiased look

[Papez]

7 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

can you give me a part number plz

6U0 407 307A - damping weight

6U0 407 186 - bushing

[D.FYLAKTOS]

45 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Absolutely normal,

 

Not for my car, first time heard that noise after 23 years.

I don't like it and i don't want to hear that ''cement mixer" sound again, that's a fact.

__________________________________________

 

 

 

 

 

Take a look at the needle, one click above 1000 rpm.

 

I think about it all night, absolutely impossible to torture my car in Highway and in Mountain Roads in high rpm with that stupid 15W.

Case Closed, never-ever again no mattter if they pay me for it, Eneos Premium 10W-40 Synthetic now is my new oil, with this i will make the trip (with my recently refurbished Koni suspension).

[Thefeliciahacker]

cant find it damn it

[nta16]

@D.FYLAKTOS the Total Quartz 15w-50 m i n e r a l oil doesn't suit you and perhaps your car - perhaps another 15w-50 mineral or better still good synthetic might suit you and you car (or perhaps not) it doesn't matter as you will never try another another 15w.

 

Sorry I didn't make myself clear with not believing something until you see it with your own eyes that was not about the 15W-50 m i n e r a l  but that if the most suitable oil for you was suggested at the very start you might try it and still find, to you, a compromise so you would still go on the journey you have taken and then forget that the first one was possibly the best as you (and possibly your car with some) may have disliked some effect of every oil you tried.

 

Your car is 23 years old and has been modified so unless you put it on a rolling road you won't know the exact figures and peak power and torque points or level of curves but you have driven it enough to have a reasonable idea of how it performs in the way you drive it.

 

Now you have totally dismissed the Total Quartz 15w-50 m i n e r a l and 15w I would suggest as I probably included a while back (but perhaps I didn't) try a good quality 10w-50 s y n t h e t i c.  This is only what I think will suit you and the car, others may think differently.

 

I hope I have laboured the point enough (or as we over here might say "laid it on with a trowel") of a good quality synthetic for you.

 

[nta16]

On 20/12/2023 at 08:14, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Now with the 15W-50 everything is not good, i haven't see something positive

I have a positive for the Total Quartz 15w-50 m i n e r a l you no longer have the 3 minute plus at higher revs.  😁

 

I decided to replace the trowel with a shovel and put my happy hat on.  😁

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

11 minutes ago, nta16 said:

unless you put it on a rolling road

 

I have done it twice, more Hp and torque than a stock Felicia.

[Thefeliciahacker]

1 hour ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Absolutely normal, please take an unbiased look

does @Papez and @RicardoM see anything out of the ordinary for a 8deg C cold start?
Honestly guys

[RicardoM]

1 hour ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

does @Papez and @RicardoM see anything out of the ordinary for a 8deg C cold start?
Honestly guys

Nothing abnormal. It all depends on who starts the engine😎

Since you asked, the abnormal part in this topic can only be cured by a good psychiatrist.

Edited 21 December, 2023 by RicardoM

[nta16]

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

I have done it twice, more Hp and torque than a stock Felicia.

So you knew where the power curves and figures were on those two occasions from the two particular rolling road(s) as they and your car were at that those particular times to give you some idea unless you have changed things on the car since to make a significant difference you will have a reasonable idea allowing for age, wear and tear since.

 

 

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Eneos Premium 10W-40 Synthetic now is my new oil

Sorry I missed this bit in your post.  You will I'm sure be happier with this oil and certainly through winter and perhaps even summer but I'm sure we will hear reports back.

 

Just for the pre-established sake of looking at the numbers - 

 

Eneos Premium 10W-40 Synthetic 

• Kinematic viscosity (40°C) -  99.6 mm2 /s 
• Kinematic viscosity (100°C) - 14.7 mm2 /s
• Viscosity index - 154

(API SL/CF, VW 500.00/505.00) - "Note: The above typical properties may be changed without notice. (February 2006)" - https://oilgroupbg.com/pdf/eneos/eneos-premium-10w40.pdf

 

 I could not find Premium as a current oil on Eneos Europe's website for a more up to date spec sheet but this was the result of the oil selection search for as near as I could get with their system for your car, note the alternatives, should warm you up on a cold day,  😁 -  https://jx-nippon-uk.ewp.earlweb.net/equipment/felicia_estate_ii_1_3_50kw_FawEcWamX 

 

Edited 21 December, 2023 by nta16