Felicia Combi 1.3 - what oil?

[Ootohere]

Surely (Shirley),

'The fuel consumption is increasing,'  the number displayed lowering.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

2 hours ago, Rooted said:

The number displayed lowering.

 

The temperature here start rising, the fuel consumption start rising too just a click, i will show that with photos in next post.

The 11,7 ltr/ 100 km (few days ago) is the lowest i have seen for many years and the 5W-40 is responsible for this.

I am monitoring every change (cold start, fuel consumption, engine noise etc) with that new 5W viscosity and present the results till the next oil change.

 

[nta16]

Is the current 5w-40 the same make and model of oil as the previous 10w-40 otherwise it's not a direct (real world) comparison of 5w to 10w plus with smaller oil blenders it's sometimes suggested that the absolute consistency of product make up.

 

So what make and model of 5w-40 oil are you currently using and what make and model of 10w-40 are you comparing against?

 

The car manufactures, as a generalisation, go for "thinner" as good for fuel economy too.

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

5 hours ago, nta16 said:

So what make and model of 5w-40 oil are you currently using and what make and model of 10w-40 are you comparing against?

 

 

Synthetics: 5W-40 Shell and 10W-40 Motul (2 oils) and Amsoil, so far the 5W-40 is the ''winner'' in everything (i don't know about engine wear that other memebers said that i am going to face).

Semi-synthetics: 10W-40 Castrol (poor performance-fuel consumption) and another cheap brand from a local dealer at the 1st service, a terrible engine oil but i had to go due to the warranty rules..

 

I have used before 17-19 years Valvoline 5W-40 and Motul 15W-40 but i don't remember something ''great'' about them plus i wasn't paying too attention to fuel consumption those years.

I am on the tablet now, not at home to check my notes but i don't think that i have forgoten something.

[nta16]

OK, thanks.

 

What I meant was which Shell(?) model of oil is the current 5w-40 and which Motul(?) model of 10w-40 were you using just before the current (5w-40) oil.

 

BTW I still have not received a reply to my email to Motul UK from a week or so back (Millers replied very quickly and asked me more questions to try to pin things down). 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

12 hours ago, nta16 said:

What I meant was which Shell(?) model of oil is the current 5w-40 and which Motul(?) model of 10w-40 were you using

 

Here is the whole list, keep in mind that in first years there was no internet, no forums, no e-stores etc but only some advises from car magazines-other drivers and local mechanics.

Inevitably due misinformation some mistakes could happen.

 

Factory oils, (i couldn't know the brand or viscosity)

Warranty oils (couldn't see the brand from a distance, was green bottle with yellow cap, they didn't told me which brand or viscosity)

EKO Megatron 5W-40 (synthetic)

Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 (synthetic) - Surely not happy

Repsol 5W-50 Master Racing (synthetic)

Motul 300V 10W-60 Le Mans (synthetic)

Mobil-1 5W-50 Rally Formula (synthetic) - Extremely Not happy

Mobil-1 15W-50 Motorspost (synthetic)

Amsoil 10W-40 AMO (synthetic)

Castrol Magnatec 10W-40 (semi-synthetic) - Not happy

Motul 6100 Synergie 10W-40 (technosynthese) - Not happy

Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 (synthetic)

 

The engine oils that i ''pushed'' hard were (and i rate them for: engine noise, cold start few meters, rev-up and fuel consumption):

 

3rd: Mobil-1 15W-50 Motorspost (synthetic)

2nd: Amsoil 10W-40 AMO (synthetic)

1st: Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 (synthetic)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

Mobil-1 15W-50 Motorsport

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/our-products/products/mobil-1-15w-50

now is very hard to be found here, no VW specifications.

 

Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 (synthetic)

Mobil-1 5W-50 Rally Formula (synthetic)

I change them very quicly, i din't like the engine loud ''rattle" noise.

 

Repsol 5W-50 Master Racing (synthetic)

I didn't push it too hard, i don't remeber something about noise.

 

Motul 300V 10W-60 Le Mans (Ester)

I didn't push it too hard either but they told me that Ester oils are not good for more than a year inside an engine, are hygroscopic plus have no VW specifications so i din't tested them again.

 

All of my engine oil intervals were from 5000-7000 Km excpept the Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 (synthetic) and the Mobil-1 5W-50 Rally Formula (synthetic) which change them after few months of use.

I start taking seriously measures about fuel consumption after Mobil-1 15W-50 Motorspost use, those years i could only via Gas Station pupm test, Motul 6100 Synergie 10W-40 and Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 tested via TC-6.

 

 

[nta16]

I have used (UK?) Mobil 1 15w-50 Motorsport for a number of years in a few cars built in the 1970s (with engines designed in the 1950s) and in newer or new cars built in the 1990s (with engine designed in 1950s) and had no problems with it, a good oil but I could have got better if I had wanted, on engines with metal rocker covers I could hear the "tappets" more but it never worried me.  Not been able to get it new in UK for a number of years and old stock was very difficult to find a number of years back too.

 

Personally as I put I would not worry about VW numbers for your VW made Skoda engine and take Viscosity Index as a guide only.  "The viscosity index (VI) is an arbitrary, unitless measure of a fluid’s viscosity change relative to a temperature change." - https://www.tribonet.org/wiki/viscosity-index/

 

 

Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 (synthetic) (*GB)

• Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt. – 12.8
• Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt. – 75.7
• Viscosity Index – 170

(*GB) - https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en-GB/a779a5f5-2cc7-44ab-b772-6e9fc36d99b0.pdf

 

On 22/11/2023 at 18:22, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Amsoil European Formula 5W-40

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt. - 13,6

Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt. - 83

Viscosity Index - 168

On 22/11/2023 at 18:22, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Amsoil 10W-40 Full Synthetic

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt. - 15,6

Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt. - 101,3

Viscosity Index - 164

 

Repsol 5W-50 Master Racing (synthetic)

• Viscosity at 100 ºC cSt – 17.5
• Viscosity at 40 ºC cSt – 116
• Viscosity index - 169

https://lubricants.repsol.com/content/dam/repsol-corporate/en_gb/productos-y-servicios/lubricantes-documentos/MASTER_RACING_5W-50_EN.pdf

 

Mobil 1 15w-50

• Kinematic Viscosity @ 100 C – 18
• Kinematic Viscosity @ 40 C – 125
• Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270) – 160

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/our-products/products/mobil-1-15w-50

 

So - if you just go by the numbers Mobil 1 15w-50 would be your winner, so why not give second place Repsol 5W-50 Master Racing another try as you didn't push it too hard and don't remember anything about noise last use.  It's a 5w for your winter use and 50 for your summer city traffic and hard mountain driving and claims to be designed "for powerful vehicles used daily in any environment and circumstances".

 

Edited 2 December, 2023 by nta16

[D.FYLAKTOS]

11 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Repsol 5W-50 Master Racing (synthetic)

 

A bit hard to find here but it can be done.

Repsol produces also G11 antifreeze, i have use it nd i was very happy with it.

 

12 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Mobil 1 15w-50

 

Can not be found here any more, i must order it from aboard country.

 

Another one is MOTUL 4100 POWER 15W-50 (Technosynthese) but i hesitate since Motul 6100 Synergie 10W-40 (also technosynthese) didn't worked for me.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

I also made a research for 15W-50 Synthetic but there are not many options.

 

There is Total QUARTZ RACING 10W-50

https://www.finol.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/quartz-racing-10w-50-engine-oil_79.pdf

says "can be used in the most difficult operating conditions (motorways, dense city traffic...) whatever the season.

 

Although does not mention VW

Specifications ACEA 2007 A3/B4
API SM / CF
Referent engine oil for PEUGEOT SPORT ans CITREON SPORT
SUBARU (Level)

 

Viscosity at 100°C mm²/s - 17

Viscosity at 40°C mm²/s - 115
Viscosity index - 164

[nta16]

(Bearing in mind I didn't get a reply to my email to Mutol so don't feel included to particularly favour them.)

 

MOTUL 4100 POWER 15W-50

• Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) - 19.8
• Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) - 154.7
• Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270) -148

API - SL - Meets 2001-2004 requirements of Automotive manufacturers

Approval - VW 501 01

"All driving conditions: City, Road, Highway"

https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/4100_POWER_15W-50_en_FR_motul_14600_20220504.pdf

 

https://penriteoil.com.au/knowledge-centre/Specifications/194/api-service-classifications/363

 

Again figures only.

 

As I put before you have a wide choice (and I would not worry about VW spec but I am not you) and numbers are numbers.  You could go on for a very long time researching and trying oils at one change a year or every 5-7,000km going trough different multigrades, makes and models of oils.

 

You are just as able as me to get the information on figures and only you can decide what oil(s) you want to try and I will wait for your choice and reported results of use.  If you are worried about the 5w then as your weather appears to be 21c (Google for Greece, generally) then change the oil as soon as possible.  Minus 1.6c here at the moment (Apparent Temperature -4.1 °C) and it certainly feels like it.

 

Edited 2 December, 2023 by nta16
spelling

[D.FYLAKTOS]

4 hours ago, nta16 said:

MOTUL 4100 POWER 15W-50

• Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) - 19.8
• Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) - 154.7
• Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270) -148

API - SL - Meets 2001-2004 requirements of Automotive manufacturers

 

Felicia had in the manual

SG - Meets 1989-1993 requirements of Automotive manufacturers. Now obsolete.

 

That Motul "looks promising".

 

4 hours ago, nta16 said:

If you are worried about the 5w then as your weather appears to be 21c (Google for Greece, generally) then change the oil as soon as possible.

 

The worst temperature here in my place was -4,5 °C before two decades, the average temperature for January here is about + 7°C and we very rare we see snow.

The 5W so far did a record in fuel consumption at Summer,Autumn but let's see for the December (next oil change) what he can do.

[nta16]

Yes I thought you would like the SG part but as with all it is a case of "swings and roundabouts" with a good suitable oil, what you gain on the swings you loose on the roundabouts, it is a 15w, and by the numbers a "thicker" one at that, whereas you have been using a "thinner" oil with the Shell.

 

I am reasonably sure (never certain) that I was using a mineral 20w50 oil when the car had been sitting unused for a god number of days in winter when it was very cold most days and (minus) -10c the day I needed to start it, it started fine, about second or third turn of the motor, only one turn of the key, but it was it sluggish and made me think of forgetting the "classic" engine oils and going back to the then available "modern" Mobil 1 15w-50.

 

I can't remember ever having the situation in the following winters but I'm not sure we had -10c when I had not used the car for a number of days.  I tried to avoid using the car the few times we had standing snow only because I got fed up of being behind wider tracked RWD Mercs and BMW (non-) drivers who either got stuck or spun the rear wheels to have weaving tracks into the kerbstones.  For many years now people here panic if we get lying snow and have forgotten or never knew have to drive in snow.  Panic in Cumbria (north England) yesterday because it snowed (7 inches) it always snows.

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

but it was it sluggish and made me think of forgetting the "classic" engine oils and going back to the then available "modern" Mobil 1 15w-50.

 

I remembered this:

 

 

5W40 VS 15W40 Diesel Oil at -25C

_______________________________________

 

I found a photo from my archives, was Spring (not too hot) but that cusred Motul 10W-40 Synthetic didn't perorm so well in coolant temperature.

 

 

With the 5W-40 Shell i nevear had this indication even at hot days of July with +40 °C outside.

Isn't that a bit of weird?

 

[nta16]

The 5w40 vs 15w-40 diesel oil at -25c video makes a rough point but is a bit too over simplified and comparing a 5w-40 synthetic to a 15w-40 "regular" so certainly not the same model of oil even if both are the same manufacturer or blender.  I have not read the 264 remarks (is that longer than the threads here 😁 ) so I make the assumptions (always foolish) that both oils are unused and new(-ish), if they are quite/very old then there is no mention of giving the cans a shake before letting the oils get that cold and/or dispensing them into the plastic bottles.   There are a few other videos of comparing pour rates of named oils as comparisons.

 

-25c would be near record lowest temperate over here though Google shows "Scotland recorded -27.2°C, the UK's coldest ever temperature, in 1895, 1982 and 1995" and locally to me "Lowest recorded in Northampton (since 1880) -18.3C on 8 February 1895" and "Lowest recorded at Pitsford Hall (since 1998) -13.0C on 11 February 2012".

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

"For eductaional purposes only", for sure i don't care about -25 'C but it's interesting at +20 'C

 

Flow test 0W20, 0W30, 0W40, 5W30, 5W40, 5W50, 10W40 temps +20°C and -25°C Mobil

 

 

The synthetic 5W-40 beats the semi-synthetic 10W-40.

_______________________________

 

Flow test 10W30, 10W40, 10W50, 10W60 temps +20°C and -25°C.

 

 

The 10W-40 beats the 10W-50.

 

[nta16]

Good looking apparatus but again the tests are not testing like for like oils, same make but different varieties, the colours even vary.

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

Can we consider an engine oil test like this as ''reliable''?

 

 

[nta16]

As long as you are not relying on it in a court of law to save your life.  🙂

 

I am not sure how much it tells you for your concerns here unless you mean the chap has the machine and measuring instruments and knows how to use them.  I did note his text included comparing like for like oils.  😉

 

BTW Motul (UK & Ireland) sent me an email asking for car details at 17:11 today, I will give them and let you know their response.

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

On 18/11/2023 at 12:32, Thefeliciahacker said:

YOU ARE GOING TO STARVE THE MOTOR FROM OIL PRESSURE

 

Since i have left the Secondary school and the Physic lessons for almost 40 years, that type P=F/S apply?

In the oil pump when the S is steady, the F is the Viscosity of the engine oil?

The thinner the oil the F is getting higher so the P gets lower? 

[Thefeliciahacker]

Uhm nooo it doesnt work like that.
Not at all, you are looking at the phenomenon all wrong

[D.FYLAKTOS]

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Since i have left the Secondary school and the Physic lessons for almost 40 years

 

That's for the Hahas which 40 years back had a PhD already and worked in F1.

 

1 hour ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

you are looking at the phenomenon all wrong

 

That's why i am asking.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

New engine oil ordered, Total Quartz 15W-50 which is a viscosity hard to find here in 5lt, most them have them in 1lt.

There are not many old cars so the stores don't have them so easily as in the past.

 

One think that worries me is that the red light (with engine oil indication) when the car is Cold takes 2 seconds to turn-off when the other lights already are off.

That means that the engine oil pump start had difficulties with the existed 5W oil or it's natural?

 

 

[nta16]

I got a reply from Mutol UK it states the "vehicle requests 504/507 VAG specifications, these specifications can only be achieved on a fully synthetic formulation and is requirements by the manufacturer".  So just following VW’s dictates which for UK sticking to VW 504 00 507 00 would give Motul 8100 X-Clean+ 5W-30.

 

The red light staying on for two seconds could be the oil used perhaps fulfilling Thefeliciahacker warnings, or perhaps the oil switch, see what happens immediately after the the engine starts if you blip the accelerator.  From what I'm told in the 1960s and 70s the bulbs were removed from oil warning lights to stop drivers worrying about it occasionally coming on.  Earlier models of the Midget used to have a light to show if the oil filter was blocked, no oil warning light though as a combined mechanical coolant temperature and oil pressure gauge was fitted.  Theses gauges had number makings on originally then the markings became more general on the coolant and in the 1970s the oil pressure gauge wasn't fitted.  As put previously the gauges worried, perhaps newer, drivers with their markings and what they "should" read at and for some no doubt the amount of movement of the needles with the use of the car or way it was driven, so on the more modern cars they were removed or dampened and biased to a "normal" reading to save this worry.

 

Edited 8 December, 2023 by nta16

[D.FYLAKTOS]

42 minutes ago, nta16 said:

would give Motul 8100 X-Clean+ 5W-30.

 

@Thefeliciahacker will not be happy with this viscosity suggestion. 

 

44 minutes ago, nta16 said:

The red light staying on for two seconds could be the oil used perhaps fulfilling Thefeliciahacker warnings, or perhaps the oil switch, see what happens immediately after the the engine starts if you blip the accelerator.

 

This occurs only when the car is completely cold, then while driving nothing happens.

After 8 hours when i take it to return home everything is normal.

I am curious how the new 15W-50 will perform especially in city traffic fuel consumption.