i havent read the audi forums only what ive seen on here. Is it just the 170 models that are affected or 140 bhp engines too?

I have a a3 2.0 tdi 140 ive borrowed this week and im rather liking it!

Anyone know if the 140bhp models are affected too? if thats the cause the range of cars that engine is in is huge!

Another afterthought dont the Seat Leons run the tdi 170 now too?

i havent read the audi forums only what ive seen on here. Is it just the 170 models that are affected or 140 bhp engines too?

I have a a3 2.0 tdi 140 ive borrowed this week and im rather liking it!

Anyone know if the 140bhp models are affected too? if thats the cause the range of cars that engine is in is huge!

Another afterthought dont the Seat Leons run the tdi 170 now too?

It can affect some of the PD140s, but as far as I know the Audi A3 2.0 PD140 (and Golf and Leon 140) uses the same BKD engine as the Octavia which has Bosch solenoid injectors and doesn't suffer from this problem.

It can affect some of the PD140s, but as far as I know the Audi A3 2.0 PD140 (and Golf and Leon 140) uses the same BKD engine as the Octavia which has Bosch solenoid injectors and doesn't suffer from this problem.

ok

so the new cr engines which are in the leons too are ok then its just the pd engine s is that right?

Yes the CR engines are ok.

From teh various forums I have been on and people I spoken to, it will be the 170BHP engines across the VAG range as they are fitted with these Siemens Piezo injectors that are causing the whole problem.

Re-post from what I said on Audi-Sport.net:

===========================

I have had a long conversation with Trading Standards and have got the below. Basically Audi have no leg to stand when discriminating between FASH and independent servicing, private or hire-purchase owners, they have to address the problem, their policies mean d*ck against the law. The problem is that we could write to them and cite the following (as TS said we should be doing), but they will most likely say it is not a fault (as expected) and it will end up having to go to court to get anything done…

Relevant or Related Legislation:

Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

(What is an inherent fault?

A fault present at the time of purchase. Examples are:

• an error in design so that a product is manufactured incorrectly

• an error in manufacturing where a faulty component was inserted.

The "fault" may not become apparent immediately but it was there at the time of sale and so the product was not of satisfactory standard.)

• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.

• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit

• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).

=========================

Keep the pressure on people... we have also had a report a dealership has now accepted a car that has NO servicing with it and replaced them all once the customer mentioned their responsibility under this act.

So you know, I had another failure on Thursday... Basically I am getting a solicitor and I am taking the dealership that sold me my 170 to court...

For the people who have suffered injector failures, did the injector fail instantly or were there any signs leading up to this ie white smoke from the exhaust. Normally white smoke can be a sign of an injector failure but would the DPF "collect" all the smoke before it becomes visible?

No tell signs apart from the warning light 2 seconds before failure.

it happened to me on Tuesday 17th May. M1 South bound, middle lane at 70mph. complete loss of power without any warning. managed to swerve it onto the hard shoulder with 'engine fault' warning on the dash. contacted the breakdown company and when he arrived the car started after turning over a couple of times. as there was no fault now showing there was no point in going to a garage as if there's no fault then theres nothing to fix! carried on my way with some caution to Boston in Lincs. After a bit of lunch I returned to my car but on leaving the cafe car park the engine cut again and refused to start. eventually got recovered to Leeds. Fault found on wiring loom to injectors and failed No 3 injector. Total cost of repair £822.61.

with 3 potentially faulty injectors still in place I'm driving a time bomb

I will be passing on my concerns to VOSA watchdog etc.

I was looking into getting a vrs estate (got a wee one on the way) but not so sure now :( maybe i can get one cheap with no injectors

I have to say these "common" faults on vag cars just seem like a way for the vw parts dept & the stealers to me more monies I have read a lot of forum post's stating that dealers insist that its not a common problem!!!

bah!

I hope something happens about this soon or in the next 6 months at least!

Also theres a lot of sad passat owners here: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=86615

Edited 22 May, 201115 yr by pieman[vrs]

' timestamp='1306054244' post='2397911']

I was looking into getting a vrs estate (got a wee one on the way) but not so sure now :( maybe i can get one cheap with no injectors

I have to say these "common" faults on vag cars just seem like a way for the vw parts dept & the stealers to me more monies I have read a lot of forum post's stating that dealers insist that its not a common problem!!!

bah!

I hope something happens about this soon or in the next 6 months at least!

Also theres a lot of sad passat owners here: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=86615

wow! the vws are just as bad

no wonder there's so many vrs sup for sale now!

has anyone looked into uprated injectors?

' timestamp='1306054244' post='2397911']

I was looking into getting a vrs estate (got a wee one on the way) but not so sure now :( maybe i can get one cheap with no injectors

I have to say these "common" faults on vag cars just seem like a way for the vw parts dept & the stealers to me more monies I have read a lot of forum post's stating that dealers insist that its not a common problem!!!

bah!

I hope something happens about this soon or in the next 6 months at least!

Also theres a lot of sad passat owners here: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=86615

I've just been reading some stuff on this forum, its quite scary.

One thing i did pick up on though was this comment by 659FBE -

Relatively few engines are affected as it was only the last of the PDs which used these Siemens injectors - later engines were common rail.

Is this true? I was under the impression that all the vRS PD 170's were fitted with the siemens piezo injectors. My vRS was registered in december 2006 so will it have different injectors as its an earlier model?

chances are yours will have the problematic ones fitted

My dad is picking up an 08 octavia vrs on saturday is this likely to have an issue?, from what i have read millage does not really factor in to the equation. This one has done 28k and has skoda full service history and this will probably be maintained by my dad, i hope this does not happen to him other wise i am sure we will be ripping the local skoda dealer a new one.....

I've just been reading some stuff on this forum, its quite scary.

One thing i did pick up on though was this comment by 659FBE -

Relatively few engines are affected as it was only the last of the PDs which used these Siemens injectors - later engines were common rail.

Is this true? I was under the impression that all the vRS PD 170's were fitted with the siemens piezo injectors. My vRS was registered in december 2006 so will it have different injectors as its an earlier model?

It's 'last of the PDs' in the sense that the PD170 was the last PD engine variant to be launched - the PD170 used Siemens piezo injectors right through production. The PD105 used Bosch solenoid injectors right through AFAIK. The PD140 in general could have either, but the particular PD140 variants used in the Octavia always had Bosch solenoid injectors

"The PD140 in general could have either, but the particular PD140 variants used in the Octavia always had Bosch solenoid injectors"

Is it correct that the BKD had Bosch and the BMM had Siemens?

There's a confusing array of numbers and letters to be found on the internet...

(I've a BMM 2.0 TDI PD 140 in a Scout)....

In reality what are the chances if the problem occuring?, only people who have a problem post on forum, not the 99% of owners who are happy! Also what is the ultimate aim?, free injectors for life or all cars to be recalled & fitted with uprated part?

Is it correct that the BKD had Bosch and the BMM had Siemens?

There's a confusing array of numbers and letters to be found on the internet...

(I've a BMM 2.0 TDI PD 140 in a Scout)....

As far as I know the BMM has Bosch injectors too, unless you know different?

VOSA update, VAG have agreed to replace failed injectors for free. They will only cover the part cost, and you should be able to push for all 4 to be replaced if you push with the dealers.

There is a further meeting happening sometime in the next weeks between VOSA and VAG to iron out the fact that replacing AFTER failure does not solve the safety issue, and whether money can be claimed back for all who had to pay to get this done in the first place.

In reality what are the chances if the problem occuring?, only people who have a problem post on forum, not the 99% of owners who are happy! Also what is the ultimate aim?, free injectors for life or all cars to be recalled & fitted with uprated part?

I tried to get numbers before this all started but nobody from any of the breakdown companies or from VAG would give them out, for obvious reasons. Making up percentages doesn't help. All we know is that garages and franchises are all too familiar with the problem but nobody has spoken up on the SAFETY ISSUE involved WHEN it breaks. If they want to class it as a wear and tear part, then why isn't it on any service shedule or covered in any of the other checks. Why does it have no symptoms that we know of and why is it acceptable that a dead engine while driving is the only way to get them replaced?

I would like to think VOSA have done their homework and collected the correct national figures before going to VAG, otherwise it would have been very embarrasing to confront them with only 10 forum dudes' complaints. The least they would have done is crunch up numbers from dealers and worked out how many have been affected in reality before facing the mighty VAG.

I honestly don't know what the solution is. If there are improved parts, then have them swapped, if they can determine the wear-time, then add it into a service schedule, if it can be detected then test and replace at intervals... anything will do apart from the "replace at your own cost after failure, oh and we'll still replace it with a refurbished part"... wtf is that all about?? Juggling with my life to save money on new parts? I don't think so.

Either way, I hope you don't get any failures.

VOSA update, VAG have agreed to replace failed injectors for free. They will only cover the part cost, and you should be able to push for all 4 to be replaced if you push with the dealers.

There is a further meeting happening sometime in the next weeks between VOSA and VAG to iron out the fact that replacing AFTER failure does not solve the safety issue, and whether money can be claimed back for all who had to pay to get this done in the first place.

Do you know whether this agreement has been published anywhere and if so where to find it?

Dealers have a bulletin with instructions on how to claim injectors now and what is allowed etc.

Dealers have a bulletin with instructions on how to claim injectors now and what is allowed etc.

I've just spoken to someone from work and there is a goodwill gesture for injector faiure on desktop (internal vw system) I would imagine this is accross the VAG range. i'll have a looky monday and see what it states.

I've just spoken to someone from work and there is a goodwill gesture for injector faiure on desktop (internal vw system) I would imagine this is accross the VAG range. i'll have a looky monday and see what it states.

Any news on this and what the criteria is for replacement? i.e. do you need to wait for them to go, can you get it fixed as a pre-emptive measure, etc?

I've put a £500 deposit down on a 2006 (56) 170 PD A3 with an independent dealer, and having just read all the horror stories about the injectors I'm thinking of walking away and sacrificing my deposit as I value my life more.

Cheers,

Craig

I've just replaced my third injector however all three were replaced by an independant. Is there any way I can reclaim the cost of the injectors????.......I dearly hope so yet somehow doubt it!