VRS Burning oil

[ChrisRs]

UPDATE:

Just spoke to my dealer

New inlet manifold and oil breather pipe ordered and being fitted this Friday

He said that this is an official Skoda fix and it works

[Jabozuma]

Inlet manifold fixing oil consupmtion issue?

My only guess is it was optimised to improve fuel air mixing, provide more power this way so boost could be lowered to keep it at the same level thus reducing pressures.

Maybe it is my turn to talk out of my ar$e lol.

What other "fixes" did you have attempted on your car so far?

[ChrisRs]

I dont have any other issues........I let my warranty and Skoda 'Fix' them

We had a rattle which was cured by the dealer applying some lubricant

and some rear shocks replaced that were clicking

My Octavia is faultless still after 30 months...far better built though

[Jabozuma]

Sorry, I meant fixes aimed at curing the oil intake issue.

[Norry]

If ever fitted any piston rings and held any in your hand you'd know that your esteemed "springy action" can be played with using your fingers. At the aforementioned pressure your fingers would not only be crushed to molecule level pulp but also instantly vaporised due to high temperature under such pressurization. Yet you somehow think that the force of "the springy action" of the rings (which you can play with using your fingers) is sufficient to act against such massive force.

Your conception of the 2 forces is wrong - the combustion pressure acts downwards in the bore and the ring pressure acts outwards against the wall so comparing the 2 is totally wrong. The total force on such a small area is minimal, and as for the gases getting behind the ring to create outward pressure to form a seal, that is the last thing required as the carbon would soon cause the rings to stick in the grooves. The shape of the ring face is made to cause outward pressure. The words "get between" do not occur in the Wikipedia piece.

You are very obviously one of the most rude people on this forum.

[arnold]

Ding, Ding. Round 2 ....

[Jabozuma]

I give up, Norry is unable to do basic research and take any non-wiki knowledge on board - Wiki RULEZ!

You here to have a chat and learn new things or preach your Wkipedia "knowledge"?

In any case, I am obviousle the rudest preson around having dared to point out that somebody is talking rubbish in this thread, fine, I can live with it.

And be careful dude, I am not getting personal here, I never said you are full of $hite, I just said you were talking $hite and that is a difference between going personal and having a discussion. You on the other hand started calling me names. This in itself is quite telling. Lack of arguments - raise your voice and start offending your interlocutor. At such point I drop it.

Good luck with your world of alternative physics, "combustion force acts downwards" - Blaise Pascal is turning in his grave lol. Newsflash genius, pressure in non directional, scalar forces mean anything to you? - common knowledge since 17th centurey. It's been a while since I laughed so hard :clap: .

@Arnold - I always stayed away from Flame Wars and I thought I'd have a go this time . For however short lived it was!

Edited 22 October, 2012 by Jabozuma

[Norry]

Good luck with your world of alternative physics, "combustion force acts downwards" - Blaise Pascal is turning in his grave lol. Newsflash genius, pressure in non directional, scalar forces mean anything to you? - common knowledge since 17th centurey. It's been a while since I laughed so hard :clap: .

As far as the pistons and rings are concerned the forces are downwards - what happens to the rest of the combustion chamber is not relevant to the rings. I did not call you names, I merely described you as one of the most rude. Your arguments are so weak.

[Jabozuma]

For those interested in some anorak facts

Piston ring inner surface (Lets just look at the first one) is approx 600mm2 (they are 2.5mm thick https://onlineshop.m...lang=E&vko=0001 - not exatly the ones for CAVA engines but maybe new units have CAXA designation).

Peak cylinder pressure is 1740psi (120 bar). This pushes the rings against the surface of the bore with the force of 732 kg for the whole ring or 122kg/cm2. "Springy" force is max 15kg for that ring or 2.5kg/cm2. Can't bothered to calc how much force is pushing rings downwards against piston grove.

So if bores are not too much out of whack those rings will be able to shape them nicely and no oil should be used as the bores will be sufficiently sealed.

@Norry,

If you are not going to stand corrected and apologise for your horrible attitude after reading this http://www.federalmo...n/section_6.htm then there is no hope for you and please stop posting in this thread - waste of space.

EDIT: Another article on the subject of piston rings and actual running-in process http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Edited 22 October, 2012 by Jabozuma

[Jabozuma]

http://www.federalmogul.com/korihandbook/en/section_58.htm - this is exactly what I am thinking about, check the bottom of the page

[ChrisRs]

If the breather pipe and inlet manifold works then youre wasting more effort having a slanging match over pistons IMO

Step back guys and wait for more fixes to be done

[Norry]

http://www.federalmo.../section_58.htm - this is exactly what I am thinking about, check the bottom of the page

And this is what it says:

CO₂ / Friction Loss Reduction

The demand for lower CO₂levels brings with it the need for further reductions in piston ring friction loss. To accomplish this there must be a move towards smaller axial widths and radial wall thicknesses and consequently lower tangential forces. However, at the same time the functional values like durability, oil economy and assembly must not be neglected.

Edited 22 October, 2012 by Norry

[Norry]

For those interested in some anorak facts

Piston ring inner surface (Lets just look at the first one) is approx 600mm2 (they are 2.5mm thick https://onlineshop.m...lang=E&vko=0001 - not exatly the ones for CAVA engines but maybe new units have CAXA designation).

Peak cylinder pressure is 1740psi (120 bar). This pushes the rings against the surface of the bore with the force of 732 kg for the whole ring or 122kg/cm2. "Springy" force is max 15kg for that ring or 2.5kg/cm2. Can't bothered to calc how much force is pushing rings downwards against piston grove.

How come this force, which you say is acting in all directions, is pushing the ring hard up against the bore when in fact the outer surface area is larger and therefore should be pushing it into the groove? Also this chap (as do you) tells us that the rings do nothing towards containing combustion, so I'll ask you again, what are they for then?

By the way do VW recommend his method of running in new engines?

[Jabozuma]

If the breather pipe and inlet manifold works then youre wasting more effort having a slanging match over pistons IMO

Step back guys and wait for more fixes to be done

There is one thing which inlet manifold and breather pipe together with ECU mod may be trying to address, rings flutter. This is due to specific pressure difference conditions between crank case and cylinder. It causes the rings to lift and let oil through. But the usual way of dealing with it is to change the type of rings used. My bet is still on liners distorting as in some cases breather mode, rings, ECU did not help at all...

[Big Gray]

With regards to the piston ring/oil consumption problem on these engine. The cause is nothing to do with the design or fit or how the compression rings work. The problem lies in the oil scraper ring, the problem being that they do a poor job, leaving too much oil, allowing it to get into the combustion chamber.

Some my be aware of a factory modification on them for certain engines.

This is from an Italian vw forum .

03C 198 151 M The old one >>09.01.2012

Composto da:

Segmento Sup. 76,5x1,2

Segmento Inf. 76,5x1,2

Anello Raschiaolio 76,5X1,9

03C 198 151 Q New one from 10.01.2012>>

Composto da:

Segmento Sup. 76,5x1,2

Segmento Inf. 76,5x1,2

Anello Raschiaolio 76,5X2

Notice that the scraper ring is increased of 0.1mm

Seems to have fixed the issue in some, others with no joy, But that is most likely down to the dealers not honing the bores before fitting!

Gray

[Jabozuma]

Unless you change ring type increasing its thickness is not going to have much of an effect. Other fixes they were trying, like crankcase breather system, ECU mod, and know the intake manifold would indicate that there is something more complicated going on.

[Jabozuma]

Gray, funny 'nuff that part number pops up on websites from Russia, Ukraine, Turkey but nothing here. The latest is type M.

[leevrs180]

I dont get it how come only some are effected then. If the rings/intake/breather are wrong in all engines as they are the same.

Yes i know about slight changes in later engines but many from both early and late have oil consumption issues

[Jabozuma]

I dont get it how come only some are effected then. If the rings/intake/breather are wrong in all engines as they are the same.

Yes i know about slight changes in later engines but many from both early and late have oil consumption issues

That is why I am thinking that the problem is more serious and it lays with the bore geometry under load. Reason for it could be poor quality block cast resulting in mating surfaces between cylinder liners and block cast not being perfect causing liners to distort under load and let oil through in high pressure environment. They are trying to cure it by lowering pressure in the crank case but this may be causing rings flutter and worsening the oil consumption even further as some people reported that after ring change and breather pipe change consumption sky rocketed.

The problem with faulty block cast is you cannot repair it ad have to bin it hence they bending backwards trying to find patch up repairs and solutions before they swap motors.

Conversely my theory may be completely wrong lol.

[Big Gray]

Gray, funny 'nuff that part number pops up on websites from Russia, Ukraine, Turkey but nothing here. The latest is type M.

The Q variant is showing as the latest revision on ETOS all models (polo/Fabia/Ibiza with cave engine) from 10.01.2012 onwards

Gray

[Furbytom]

Mine hasn't used a drop since I swapped to a Milltek cat-back exhaust 4 months ago.....

Doubt skoda will cough up for this 'fix' tho hehe ;-)

[Jabozuma]

Oh, I was looking at part stores .

[Jabozuma]

How much was it using before you swapped?

[Furbytom]

How much was it using before you swapped?

Used 4L in 12000miles. Dipstick level hasn't budged since the swap 4months ago. Have done another 2k since. I suspect it us coincidence tho!

[Mark2924]

Hi folks

I had a problem with my Octavia TSI 1.4 122bhp ?? (2010)

Very " Rattly " sounding engine noise on cold/hot starts !!? Initially thought it was oil pump, valve lifters etc..

Sounded like a diesel starting !! As found on U tube !!??

Turns out there wasnt enough OIL in the engine! TBH i didnt even think to check the oil ( i will in future!?)

Main dealer said, " Oil level didnt even register on dip stick! " No dash oil lights came on! No leaks found.

Dealer replaced Oil free of charge ?? Bonus!!

They put in 1.5 litres ? Last serviced 8k ago by them.. So thats 1.5 ltr Oil in 8 k

They seem to consume quite allot of OIL ??

Oil seems to have solved the problem ( told to keep an eye on it! )

Thanks..