Warning: Fabia Door Leaks

[DRJ]

No need - just seal around the carrier after getting as much of the existing sealing out as possible.

[Dean-]

I spoke to the owner and he has blamed his mum. saying she had left the boot open.

He said he's going to dry (get his mum to dry it out) this week. so I'm going back to look again on Saturday and see what its like.

I also told him to park it down hill and tape his windows up........don't know if he will take the advice though.

Nice to see a local guy on! Welcome Adam I am from Brighouse - If you purchase the car and need to run the car for faults give me a shout I have VCDS.

[Gyp]

Saturday update - checked that Plumbers Gold had sealed the rear doors by using the hose to get as much water through the door as possible and making sure it came out the right holes. It did. Reassembled door cards etc. Happy.

Sunday update - negotiated trade in of Fabia for a Mitsubishi Colt Convertible at Faintree Skoda in Telford.

So, after wanting to fix the leak for years, I manage to do so immediately before replacing the car with one that's bound to leak like a seive. At least I've now got a small dehumidifier so that'll not be wasted!

[VRSD30]

Mines still dry in the back even though I only did a very quick job with silicone sealant, didn't even remove the full door trim.

[tisme]

I bought my Fabia Estate back in May this year (2012) - it's a late 2007 model and I was kind of hoping that Skoda may have sorted out the leaking door problem after 7 or so years of knowing about it. Wrong !

Thanks to this excellent forum and all the contributors to this article, I suspected I may suffer the problem sooner or later, so I was prepared for the job (and to be honest, I love the car and it's economy and "drive" and I've had cars in the past, including some very expensive company cars, where there have been problems of one sort or another - often much more serious !)

Anyway, with all the rain we've had, I did the usual checks and sure enough, heavy condensation on the windscreen was the first clue followed by the usual puddle on the inner seal but fortunately only the start of a damp carpet.

Being mechanically minded, I wanted to see the exact cause as it logically doesn't make sense to get water on the inner door "carrier" panel - until you see the design of the actual window glass (a "wine glass" shape with the narrow "stem" being the bit that fits into the winder carrier mechanism). The winder mechanism is then riveted to the inner carrier panel at almost it's lowest point - I think I can see some little "nodules" that may try and act as drip points but the surface tension of any water coming down through the outer window seal will slowly trickle down until it gets to the bottom of the winder mechanism and then onto the inner carrier panel and then straight onto the "seal".

In theory it should then hit the "seal" that is used between the inner carrier panel and the door assembly and then get diverted into the bottom of the door and out of the drain holes. Unfortunately (in fact after 7 years of Skoda knowing this, I'd say "stupidly"), the "seal" is made of very low quality open cell sponge that has a very thin "skin" - it would barely be good enough for a dust seal let alone one that Skoda must have known was getting soaked on a regular basis. And then the "seal" is only attached to the inner carrier panel - being pushed against the door assembly simply by the "compression" of eight rivets space around the inner carrier.

The "seal" was stuck on with what looked like double side sticky tape, and of course, after a couple of years, the seal just get totally waterlogged being an "open cell" sponge it literately acts like one and the sticky tape breaks down as well allowing the sodden sponge to fail completely and start to ooze out from between the carrier and the door - hence the water leak.

I discovered this by drilling out the lower five rivets and removing the sponge from behind the carrier (I could have drilled out all of the rivets but didn't want to dismantle the window/winder/locking mechanisms if at all possible. If you're gentle, you can pull the carrier out enough at the bottom to remove all the seal to well up past any likely "high water" marks and of course it also allows you to dry everything off before apply sealant. I also managed to get a couple of cable ties around the winder mechanism to try and get any drips to fall into the bottom of the door rather than continually run down the inside of the carrier.

Best idea I also saw earlier on on this post was to make a couple of temporary plastic sheet "curtains" - I've taped these in place over the carrier and will leave the trim panel off for a few weeks to let everything dry out and make sure there are no more leaks - the plastic trip clips will always break on removal so want to make this a "once and for all" job !

I appreciate that not every one will feel comfortable about drilling out the rivets - I used a large 13mm drill bit to drill the heads off and then the rivet will just push out and lodge itself somewhere in the door sill - just make sure you either remove them if you can find them or that they're not obstructing the drain slots !! (I used rivnuts and stainless steel bolts as a replacement though to be honest I think the sealant would be more the strong enough to hold the carrier in place). I also added a stainless steel self tapping screw spaced between the two lowest bolts on the curved bit where all the water would accumulate inside - it was the fact that there was no fixing here that also allowed the original seal to fail as the carrier panel naturally "bulged" between the rivet points.

If you don't want to go to this length to fix the leak, I suspect unless you're very careful about the type of sealant used, and also that a sufficient depth and coverage of sealant "bridges" the carrier to door, then it will fail again at some point as the original seal will still be totally waterlogged and water will try and push its way through (or around) an uncompressed layer of sealant. I know this is the recommended "solution" for those with riveted carrier panels but it is a little bit like papering over a crack in a wall - it's not really addressing the main problem.

It really is atrocious that Skoda (VW) have never really addressed this problem properly - it would have been so easy to have used a more robust "closed cell" sponge held on with adhesive tape on both side - or better still, proper sealant given that they now rivet the carrier onto the door so it's not exactly a five minute job to remove it anyway ! (and one assumes that is only ever to access the lock or change the window glass).

I just wonder if Skoda / VW have redesigned this for the Fabia II or is there a whole new set of dripping door seals and warranty claims to fix in a year or so !!

Apologies for the long post - I'll just wait for a call from the Skoda / VW design department !!!

[Breezy_Pete]

You may have a point about water dripping down the glass onto the lifty-uppy/droppy-downy mechanism, but when I looked at it not long back, I couldn't convince myself that much water would get onto the carrier this way; and with carrier completely removed, I didn't see much if any watermarking around there.

The same is not true for the plastic bracket that connects the lock mechanism to the carrier near the rear top corner. This bracket only does anything useful during factory assembly, so I'd recommend anyone who actually takes the carrier plate off to remove it and seal up the 3 holes in the carrier. Here's a pic of the offending bracket:

When you look at the inner face of the carrier where this attaches (by plastic rivets) there's all too much evidence of watermarking...

So whatever you do to seal your door carriers, I would recommend removing the bracket if possible, but if you don't, sealing all the way up the rear edge to the top corner, otherwise that stream will surely still get through.

[kiddy1]

I bought my Fabia Estate back in May this year (2012) - it's a late 2007 model and I was kind of hoping that Skoda may have sorted out the leaking door problem after 7 or so years of knowing about it. Wrong !

Thanks to this excellent forum and all the contributors to this article, I suspected I may suffer the problem sooner or later, so I was prepared for the job (and to be honest, I love the car and it's economy and "drive" and I've had cars in the past, including some very expensive company cars, where there have been problems of one sort or another - often much more serious !)

Anyway, with all the rain we've had, I did the usual checks and sure enough, heavy condensation on the windscreen was the first clue followed by the usual puddle on the inner seal but fortunately only the start of a damp carpet.

Being mechanically minded, I wanted to see the exact cause as it logically doesn't make sense to get water on the inner door "carrier" panel - until you see the design of the actual window glass (a "wine glass" shape with the narrow "stem" being the bit that fits into the winder carrier mechanism). The winder mechanism is then riveted to the inner carrier panel at almost it's lowest point - I think I can see some little "nodules" that may try and act as drip points but the surface tension of any water coming down through the outer window seal will slowly trickle down until it gets to the bottom of the winder mechanism and then onto the inner carrier panel and then straight onto the "seal".

In theory it should then hit the "seal" that is used between the inner carrier panel and the door assembly and then get diverted into the bottom of the door and out of the drain holes. Unfortunately (in fact after 7 years of Skoda knowing this, I'd say "stupidly"), the "seal" is made of very low quality open cell sponge that has a very thin "skin" - it would barely be good enough for a dust seal let alone one that Skoda must have known was getting soaked on a regular basis. And then the "seal" is only attached to the inner carrier panel - being pushed against the door assembly simply by the "compression" of eight rivets space around the inner carrier.

The "seal" was stuck on with what looked like double side sticky tape, and of course, after a couple of years, the seal just get totally waterlogged being an "open cell" sponge it literately acts like one and the sticky tape breaks down as well allowing the sodden sponge to fail completely and start to ooze out from between the carrier and the door - hence the water leak.

I discovered this by drilling out the lower five rivets and removing the sponge from behind the carrier (I could have drilled out all of the rivets but didn't want to dismantle the window/winder/locking mechanisms if at all possible. If you're gentle, you can pull the carrier out enough at the bottom to remove all the seal to well up past any likely "high water" marks and of course it also allows you to dry everything off before apply sealant. I also managed to get a couple of cable ties around the winder mechanism to try and get any drips to fall into the bottom of the door rather than continually run down the inside of the carrier.

Best idea I also saw earlier on on this post was to make a couple of temporary plastic sheet "curtains" - I've taped these in place over the carrier and will leave the trim panel off for a few weeks to let everything dry out and make sure there are no more leaks - the plastic trip clips will always break on removal so want to make this a "once and for all" job !

I appreciate that not every one will feel comfortable about drilling out the rivets - I used a large 13mm drill bit to drill the heads off and then the rivet will just push out and lodge itself somewhere in the door sill - just make sure you either remove them if you can find them or that they're not obstructing the drain slots !! (I used rivnuts and stainless steel bolts as a replacement though to be honest I think the sealant would be more the strong enough to hold the carrier in place). I also added a stainless steel self tapping screw spaced between the two lowest bolts on the curved bit where all the water would accumulate inside - it was the fact that there was no fixing here that also allowed the original seal to fail as the carrier panel naturally "bulged" between the rivet points.

If you don't want to go to this length to fix the leak, I suspect unless you're very careful about the type of sealant used, and also that a sufficient depth and coverage of sealant "bridges" the carrier to door, then it will fail again at some point as the original seal will still be totally waterlogged and water will try and push its way through (or around) an uncompressed layer of sealant. I know this is the recommended "solution" for those with riveted carrier panels but it is a little bit like papering over a crack in a wall - it's not really addressing the main problem.

It really is atrocious that Skoda (VW) have never really addressed this problem properly - it would have been so easy to have used a more robust "closed cell" sponge held on with adhesive tape on both side - or better still, proper sealant given that they now rivet the carrier onto the door so it's not exactly a five minute job to remove it anyway ! (and one assumes that is only ever to access the lock or change the window glass).

I just wonder if Skoda / VW have redesigned this for the Fabia II or is there a whole new set of dripping door seals and warranty claims to fix in a year or so !!

Apologies for the long post - I'll just wait for a call from the Skoda / VW design department !!!

Brilliant post 'tisme' I am doing exactly as you have done. Drilling the rivets out and scraping all of the open cell foam out, drying the door and then sealing from the inside and a further layer of sealant in the usual place.

[DRJ]

I found mine had had extra self-tappers installed owing to the fact that the rivets were installed loosely not properly compressing the seal - it's really very poor factory quality control

[@Lee]

I found mine had had extra self-tappers installed owing to the fact that the rivets were installed loosely not properly compressing the seal - it's really very poor factory quality control

makes you wonder why the hell Skoda went from bolts to rivets? Any idea what year the change took place? My 53 plate has bolts, much ease in removing the carrier!

[Gyp]

makes you wonder why the hell Skoda went from bolts to rivets? Any idea what year the change took place? My 53 plate has bolts, much ease in removing the carrier!

54 with rivets.

Rivets are much cheaper than bolts

[@Lee]

54 with rivets.

Rivets are much cheaper than bolts

but, bolts are unboltable, and go back in unless you lose one. Bolts are reusable, therefore cheaper in the long run

[Gyp]

but, bolts are unboltable, and go back in unless you lose one. Bolts are reusable, therefore cheaper in the long run

Very true, but would make the car more expensive/reduce profit

[@Lee]

Very true, but would make the car more expensive/reduce profit

agreed, and I'd bet my last turd that that was Skoda's motivation for the change in the first place. Muppets

[Gyp]

agreed, and I'd bet my last turd that that was Skoda's motivation for the change in the first place. Muppets

True, but I'm sure the Mistubishi MLCC that's replacing the missus' Furby next weekend will make me realise just how splendid the Skoda design and build is :(

[Breezy_Pete]

I would guess that the rivets may actually cost as much as, or more than bolts (they look more expensive, quite fancy rivets).

What would surely be cheaper though, is not having to have anything with a thread in it (for the bolts to go into) attached to the inside of the door skin in 8 'just right' places.

I assume there are some such threaded bits on the door itself, with the old bolted design?

[DRJ]

Remember it's not just the cost of the materials but also the speed of assembly.

[tophervrs]

Like every 1 else this leak is a total nighmare, i sealed my carrier about a month ago and dryed out the carpets aswell, thanks to the recent rain the leak is still there so i stripped the door trim off again and inspected the seal, as i used silicone and not gutter sealant it has failed..

I also got my friend to hose the car while i looked to see where along the sealant its failed but i noticed 2 other problems, first the top door seal lets in quite alot of water, i thought it was because i had wind deflectors but also leaked when removed .

The seal between the window and the outside of the door looks if theres a gap but its acually a u bend like seal but the water runs doon the edge of the seal and into the door , imo that shudnt be happning in the first place and also is y water leakes in to the door and throught the carrier.

So if anybudy could check that aswell to verify and also if anybudy has had the window seal replaces as im not keen on the 2 edges letting that much water into the door , it seams a very bad design fault.

Chris

[tisme]

I suspect they changed to rivets as it's probably quicker to assemble on the production line (may even be done by robot?) - a rivet is "in, bang, done" (if you'll pardon the expression ) - if it's a screw, it'll need a "rivnut" type insert popping first and then the screws screwed in - more time consuming but of course so much easier to dismantle to get behind the panel or indeed fix the water leak properly !!

I don't think you'll ever stop water getting past the top outside window seal - in my experience the brand new rubbers will be pretty water tight when new but they all tend to shrink (lengthwise) in the sun - opening up little gaps at the end (more at the door lock end on mine, so problem could be worse depending on whether you park on a slope and which way !!)

The only way I can see to stop anything coming through the carrier panel long term is to get the sopping wet sponge seal out and replace with good quality sealant (gutter sealant looks best as it has some butyl rubber ingredients that make it waterproof and flexible). I found some good stuff at Homebase - Thompsons - not the cheapest but it says it'll stick in damp conditions which at this time of year is difficult to avoid even if you can get everything dry in the first place.

This is probably also the reason why other sealants will fail - if the original sponge seal is still in there, it'll be full of water and whatever you do to dry all the surfaces, the moment you start to apply the sealant and any pressure, you'll squeeze more water out of the old seal. Evostik do some "Sticks Like ****" sealant which it says will even stick to wet surface so may be worth a try - perhaps one layer to get things started, wait a few days and then put on another layer. Try using masking tape at the edges to keep the sealant where you want it - that "Sticks Like" really does and a pain to clean up from places you didn't want it !!

[kiddy1]

I have successfully solved the leaking rear doors

Drill the rivets out and remove the carrier, scrape the crappy seal off, dry the carrier, drill new holes (I added an extra couple at the bottom) stick on LOADS of sealant and the rivet the carrier back to the door

Note: I have added extra rivets to the bottom of the door to keep it SUPER tight.

[R4NDY]

I'm going to have to d this when I get chance, so so so fed up of condensation/ frozen inside windscreen!

Interesting how tisme commented on parking on a slope!

I park reversed down a steep drive and the problem is quite bad I think!

So thompsons or evostick sticks like are the recommended sealants???

[DRJ]

Interesting how tisme commented on parking on a slope!

I park reversed down a steep drive and the problem is quite bad I think!

Interestingly ten days ago I was away for the weekend and parked up for two days on a slope, front downwards. After that the condensation was suddenly back! However it disappeared again as soon as I started parking on the level again and has been fine since.

[mouk]

I did the sealant repair but looks liek its failed as I still have water showing on the inside of the bar.

My car has a seirous leak elsehwre as the front and rear windscreen are soaked i nwater in the morning. I am taking it to a garage to let them have a look.

With regards to the rear door fix I note most people just pivot up the door and do the seal but I might take the doors fully off before going to the garage so they can have a loo (otherwise they will charge me to take the doors off) - how hard is it to fully take off the inner door card

Also once its off is there any easy way to see if my old fix has failed and where? just a case of puring water down the outside of the door and seeing where it goes?

[Warby]

Hi Everyone

First post from a (up until 2 days ago) skoda virgin. Just bought an 08 Fabia 2 14TDI. Condensation took a long while to clear on the way back from the dealer so a quick trawl on google revealed this forum debate. True enough, my rear nearside footwell is wet/damp, offside rear is ever so slightly damp, both front are as dry as a bone.

I have read every one of the 22 pages, lots of useful stuff, thanks for posting. I do have a couple of questions

1. I noticed that my 08 Fabia is the latest model specifically mentioned. There was a suggestion earlier in the topic that it only affects upto 07 Fabias, am I barking up the wrong tree or does this design relate to my car? I noted that 'later models' have riveted panels but wasnt sure if this was the only diference.

2. I am not used to any sort of maintenance on cars but realise that some dealerships might not do a great job. I would like to fix the seal on the rear doors, is there anyone that's done it before and would be happy to lend a hand for cash/beers/both? I am based in Lincoln and would come to you!

[softscoop]

I'm in Lincoln, and am happy to lend a hand, but I didn't think the mk2 Fabia suffered the same issue?

2007 is when they last sold the mk1.

[DRJ]

I wasn't aware that the problem afflicted the Mark 2 model. Can I suggest you research and potentially post on the Mark 2 forum to see if anyone there has the same problem? But let us know if it turns out to be the same cause