winter tyres

[Eleg4by4]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but can anyone recommend a good all-weather tyre (I do not want winter tyres as I don't want the hassle of new wheels, storage etc, and I'll take a chance on the weather in the South)?

Also, presumably if you do buy winter tyres and new wheels, you need to buy 5 sets (in case of a puncture) or is that too extreme?

By the by, can you buy run flat winter tyres yet?

Edited 23 October, 2012 by Eleg4by4

[oldstan]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but can anyone recommend a good all-weather tyre (I do not want winter tyres as I don't want the hassle of new wheels, storage etc, and I'll take a chance on the weather in the South)?

You're right, it has been covered in extremis - but - http://www.oponeo.co...es-225-50-r17?? for the Goodyears which are recommeded by myself and others (Don't know why they seem to be showing the same tyre with two prices....give them a ring - they're very helpful)

Also, presumably if you do buy winter tyres and new wheels, you need to buy 5 sets (in case of a puncture) or is that too extreme?

I didn't - just bought four, but I have a full size spare

By the by, can you buy run flat winter tyres yet?

Don't know. Have a look on Google.

Edited 23 October, 2012 by oldstan

[bahnstormer vrs]

By the by, can you buy run flat winter tyres yet?

Don't know. Have a look on Google.

Yes you can and I'd be tempted to go this route if even I ditched my spare wheel/tyre.

[r999]

Yes you can and I'd be tempted to go this route if even I ditched my spare wheel/tyre.

Careful. To go to runflats, you'd need EH2 rims; you'd also need the tyre pressure warning system; and you might find the ride quality was terrible afterwards.

Where a car's suspension has been designed from the outset to have enough compliance for runflats, the ride can be acceptable, though not as good as with non-runflats. Where the suspension was not designed for them, the ride is usually ghastly. For example, BMW introduced the E60 5-Series on runflats from the outset, but with a suspension that hadn't been designed for them. Not until they reworked the suspension 3 years into the car's production run did the ride become acceptable. Similarly with the R50 Mini: they stuck runflats on it half-way through its life and the results were awful.

[Llanigraham]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but can anyone recommend a good all-weather tyre (I do not want winter tyres as I don't want the hassle of new wheels, storage etc, and I'll take a chance on the weather in the South)?

Also, presumably if you do buy winter tyres and new wheels, you need to buy 5 sets (in case of a puncture) or is that too extreme?

http://www.briskoda....has-what-where/

Only if you have a spare wheel!

By the by, can you buy run flat winter tyres yet?

Not seen any, but as the Yeti is not equipped to take them, you shouldn't fit them anyway.

Agree with what r999 says above.

[bahnstormer vrs]

Not seen any, but as the Yeti is not equipped to take them, you shouldn't fit them anyway.

Agree with what r999 says above.

Oops; thanks Gents.

My earlier comment about run-flat winter tyres being available was based on having seen them listed in the size I use of 225/50 17 but I had omitted to consider r999's comments. Sorry!

[speedsport]

Just bought winter tyres for our other Fabia II (yes we have two with a third on the way ) decided to save some penny's and went for Avon's Ice Touring ST, it's a British manufactured tyre made for our roads and if you look at these new tyre labels then they have one of the best wet road ratings

TP

I bought the Avons last year (on 16" steels" after losing control at little more than walking pace on snow in 2010 and kerbing 2 alloys. The Avons are pretty good in cold weather, but typically since having them standing by, we didn't get much snow in these parts to try them out properly last winter.

They are quieter at speed than the standard P Zero Rossos, but strangely are noisy on smooth roads at low speed. Whilst many people wont be able to tell the difference in the handling dept, I do find them less direct than lower profile tyres, but it's not something that worries me, and I'm happy with my choice.

Would i buy the Avons again? Probably not - Continentals or Nokians would be my preferred choice, though if price comes into the equation, then the Avons seem reasonable value.

Yer pays yer money & makes yer choice !!

[mike 111]

Aldi currently have a torque spanner set on sale for £15.99 complete with extension bar and 17, 19 and 23mm sockets, ideal for anyone changing their summer wheels for winter wheels and wanting to tighten the wheel nuts to the correct torque. Seemed very cheap but it looks identical to the Siverline wrench that was recommended by Auto Express as a great budget buy so I bought one!

To test it I set it to 120Nm and "torqued" the wheel nuts on my 2012 Yeti - wheels were put on at the factory and haven't been changed since. I checked 4 nuts on each wheel (didn't bother with the locking nuts). Resulrs as follows:-

Wheel 1 - spanner 'clicked' on 2 nuts without any movement of the nuts, on the other two there was a slight movement of the nut before the spanner clicked.

Wheel 2 - 3 nuts no movement before click, 1 nut slight movement before click.

Wheel 3 - 2 nuts no movement before click, 2 nuts very slight movement before click.

Wheel 4 - 3 nuts no movement before click, 1 nut very slight movement before click.

I am assuming that the factory fitted the wheels to the correct torque and it seems that the Aldi spanner is quite accurate because it mirrored the factory settings almost perfectly. Seems a good buy and will insure your wheel nuts are tightened evenly to the right torque when you change to your winter steel wheels, and probably more importantly, when you change back to alloys in the Spring.

Bought one today reduced to £8.99. Aldi in Barnsley,they had quite a few in.

[io1901]

By the by, can you buy run flat winter tyres yet?

You can get from other brands, I have them on the X5- they seem to be essential if you want to use it in even light snow as the standard 20" wheels aren't that good due to their width (front 295 rear 315).

Y.

[GlenAnderson]

Fitted the winter wheels/tyres to SWMBO's Urban over the weekend.

As previously mentioned, I went for a set of factory steel 16" rims, which a mate painted silver for me. Total cost, inc. painting, £240.

Tyres, after some deliberation, are 215/60x16 Falken HS449 Eurowinter. £374.40 fitted and balanced for the four.

Finished with a set of VW Caddy hubcaps, £10 secondhand off ebay.

Total cost £625 give or take a copper or two.

As has been pointed out by others before, the summer tyres and expensive, shiny Matterhorn alloys are safe in the shed (washed and dried), and every mile driven on the winter tyres is a mile saved on the summer ones - over the five years or so I plan keeping the car, the cost of the winter rubber will be recovered completely (hopefully) in saved summer tyre wear; leaving the only real outlay that of the steel wheels, paint and hubcaps. Spread over the same five years that's under a pound a week.

Anyway, pictures:

I'm tempted to fit some Skoda badges to the centres, but from more than a few feet away you can't see the VW anyway - and you certainly can't see it from the driving seat!

Glen.

[bahnstormer vrs]

As has been pointed out by others before, the summer tyres and expensive, shiny Matterhorn alloys are safe in the shed (washed and dried), and every mile driven on the winter tyres is a mile saved on the summer ones - over the five years or so I plan keeping the car, the cost of the winter rubber will be recovered completely (hopefully) in saved summer tyre wear; leaving the only real outlay that of the steel wheels, paint and hubcaps. Spread over the same five years that's under a pound a week.

Glen.

That's not 'alf bad; pretty good actually; well done. Steelies do look good in silver.

One small point for storing your lovely Matterhorns. Having been washed and dried, a light smear of grease or squirt of WD40 on the face of the centre of the wheel, where it mates onto the hub, is beneficial to minimise the risk of any corrosion.

[GlenAnderson]

That's not 'alf bad; pretty good actually; well done. Steelies do look good in silver.

One small point for storing your lovely Matterhorns. Having been washed and dried, a light smear of grease or squirt of WD40 on the face of the centre of the wheel, where it mates onto the hub, is beneficial to minimise the risk of any corrosion.

Ta.

I once got the job of removing a set of "P-slot" alloys from a Mk 1 Golf that had stuck fast to the hubs through dissimilar-metal corrosion, so I've always used a tiny smear of vaseline on any subsequent alloys I've ever had on/off a car since. I was pleased to see some kind of anti-seize gloop on the wheels I took off the Yeti, obviously some factory-fit concoction - nice touch.

I'm a total convert to winter rubber. I had no end of ribbing from certain quarters at work about spending £400 on a set of winter wheels and tyres for our old Golf a couple of years back. Took great pleasure in working out that spending that £400 had saved me from having to replace all four summer tyres last year, prior to selling the car last May, which would have cost me £300. I sold the Golf with all four summer tyres just above 2mm, and the winter wheels/tyres for £220 separately. Left me about £100-£120 up on the deal. I'm fairly convinced the summer tyres wear quicker in the winter too - particularly the fronts if they're doing much slithering about (both the Golf and the Yeti were/are 2-WD) - but the main thing for me is that SWMBO feels safer and more confident in the car with the winter tyres on. The Golf was noticeably more stable on a cold road on the winters, and was way more composed in the wet. The summer tyres wouldn't even get up our drive when the snow was on the ground, and when I managed to get about half way up, the handbrake wouldn't hold the weight of the car. Even with it in gear as well, the slightest nudge had it sliding back down with all the wheels locked. With the winters on it just drove up like normal.

It'll be interesting to see how the Yeti's tyre wear pans out. I plan keeping the car for five years, as I said above, and anticipate about 12,000 miles a year. With the winters on from November to the end of March/early April they'll see about 25,000 miles over the five year period, and the summers about 35,000 miles. It would be nice to think I could maybe get away without buying any more tyres over that period. I'm not sure what we'll do with the Yeti after that - maybe keep it a few years once it's paid for and enjoy a bit of payment-free motoring, or maybe trade it in for a new Yeti (or something else)... We'll see.

I'd actually like to get some dedicated winter tyres for my Land-Rover, but they're not available in the size I'd need. 4-WD drivers seem less aware of their benefits it seems, which is a shame, my old 109" is pretty good on it's M+S rubber, but you do have to be very careful still - with the proper winter compounds it'd be unstoppable.

Glen.

[g6zru]

I didn't know M&S sold tyres?

Fred

[Llanigraham]

Fred................................!

[ejstubbs]

maybe keep it a few years once it's paid for and enjoy a bit of payment-free motoring

Bimey, I paid cash for my Yeti but I still seem to have to shell out substantial sums on a fairly regular basis in order to enjoy motoring in it. Did I miss a special offer somewhere?

[Kiwibacon]

Any lubricant or coating on the hub face of a wheel needs cleaned off before fitting. The load your wheel takes is carried in friction on this face. Lubricated, it can't carry anywhere near the load and may start to move. If it starts to move it'll fret the surface and also load up the wheel studs/bolts in shear.

[BillN_33]

Any lubricant or coating on the hub face of a wheel needs cleaned off before fitting. The load your wheel takes is carried in friction on this face. Lubricated, it can't carry anywhere near the load and may start to move. If it starts to move it'll fret the surface and also load up the wheel studs/bolts in shear.

Thanks for that - I have always very lightly coated the face of the hub with high temp paste, (grey german stuff that I use on my Bikes), done this for the last 10 years, before that a used a light coating of copper grease - have done it for years and have driven up to 20,000 miles per year. I did/do this as often I have found that alloy wheels stick to the hub and can take some moving, (with my son's VX220 we have to use a very heavy hammer and blocks of wood to remove one of the rears which seemed to have stuck to the hub) and generally I have found that alloys can stick.

I also did this recently when I fitted my steel winters but clearly from your advice I should not do this so will rethink this procedure.

[Norry]

Any lubricant or coating on the hub face of a wheel needs cleaned off before fitting. The load your wheel takes is carried in friction on this face. Lubricated, it can't carry anywhere near the load and may start to move. If it starts to move it'll fret the surface and also load up the wheel studs/bolts in shear.

I have heard this information before but have never come across anyone who has had that problem.

I believe that the torqueing up of the bolts will squeeze out the grease from the mating surfaces and merely leave a nice waterproof seal around them. Some protection is an absolute essential as the two metals will definitely corrode together on our salt laden winter roads otherwise.

Edited 14 November, 2012 by Norry

[r999]

Any lubricant or coating on the hub face of a wheel needs cleaned off before fitting. The load your wheel takes is carried in friction on this face.

That was true a very long time ago when wheels were located by their nuts or bolts. But all modern wheels are hubcentric: the weight is carried by a flange on the hub that fits closely into the hole at the centre of the wheel. There is no reliance on friction on the hub face. Greasing the face is a good idea. Greasing the bolts is not such a good idea as it will mean they take too much torque.

[Kiwibacon]

R999, sorry no.

Hubcentric is just there to centre the wheel on installation and take the load on gross overloads. It doesn't take load as the wheel rotates, due to the slight gap between the stub and hub bore (wheels are not normally press-fit) they would have to move continually as the wheel rotates to take up this gap.

I must repeat. The load is carried in friction between the hub surface and the wheel mating surface. Just like every other proper bolted joint. Just like every other bolted joint the bolts/studs/nuts are there to provide the clamp load to generate the required friction. If the joint can move, then it has failed to do it's job. Any movement results in fretting and eventually failure.

[Llanigraham]

Kiwi.

If this is so "not allowed" please tell me why my dealer always does it, and Land rover actually recommend it on Freelander's?

How is a wheel correctly bolted onto the hub going to "fret"?

[Kiwibacon]

Llanigraham. It's very simple, if there is any movement at the hub/wheel face in normal use, it will fret.

I have no idea why your dealer does it and I don't own a freelander. My real landrover doesn't get the wheel faces lubricated. Perhaps the tolerances on the freelander wheels are too tight or the owners too weak.

[Norry]

Llanigraham. It's very simple, if there is any movement at the hub/wheel face in normal use, it will fret.

I have no idea why your dealer does it and I don't own a freelander. My real landrover doesn't get the wheel faces lubricated. Perhaps the tolerances on the freelander wheels are too tight or the owners too weak.

If my wheels were rusted to the hubs I'd certainly fret!!

I repeat -

I have heard this information before but have never come across anyone who has had that problem.

I believe that the torqueing up of the bolts will squeeze out the grease from the mating surfaces and merely leave a nice waterproof seal around them. Some protection is an absolute essential as the two metals will definitely corrode together on our salt laden winter roads otherwise.

On cars there is oil and grease everywhere - the wheel bolt size and torque must be designed so that they can cope with grease between the surfaces. However I stick to what I have said - "the bolts will squeeze out the grease" and the resultant surface will be no different to any other wiped clean mechanical joint on a motor vehicle.

Edited 16 November, 2012 by Norry

[Yety]

Spigot fixing of HGV wheels was introduced years ago, and most cars are similar these days.

The fit is very nearly interference on cars and was introduced partly to over come the older tapered wheel nut fixing only, and subsequent inaccuracies and risk of failure/loosening in service.

Tapered/conical seatings and spigot fitting ensure a more secure fixing both in production and at the road side - the best of both worlds.

So it is essential to provide some sort of anti-seize "stuff" to prevent electrolytic corrosion between the wheel and the hub. It's not for lubrication

No-one is suggesting that the wheel/hub interface is "lubricated", just the spigot location areas.

[vegit8]

My Bulgarian Skoda hub inserts arrived today, so I have finally got rid of the Audi ones. It is surprising how many people have commented on them, one even asked if the car was an Audi! So I guess these are actually looked at more than I imagined.

Before

After