Bad MPG and other issues after cambelt change

[richiewill83]

Hi guys.

I picked up my Skoda Octavia mk2 about 6 weeks ago. Before signing the deal I double checked the service and the fact they changed the cambelt as I requested, and they hadn't, so I had it booked in for them to do it.

2 weeks later I dropped the car off and the cambelt was changed (with water pump too at my expense) since the change the car has been acting up.

*Failing to start in the mornings (turns over a couple of times at 500 rpm then dies)

*Sometimes very un-responsive in that I will put the gas on, rev counter rises but a massive delay in acceleration (3 secs)

*Also can be cruising along and then the revs will suddenly shoot up

*Not very smooth when pulling away due to the un responsiveness

*Noticed a massive drop in MPG, nice long journey on dual carriage way with a max speed of 75 and sensible driving I get 42 mpg. Normally early 50s

I have an extended warranty on the car so will be booking it in but just wondered if anyone could relate these issues to a bad cambelt change. I did express my concern to the service dept when they told me that it took them 6.5 hours to do the cambelt (book time is 3.5) due to the guy not being very experienced on these cambelts!

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[softscoop]

Who did you buy it from?

Having the timing out can cause all sorts of issues.

Revs rising like that sounds like a slipping clutch.

[Jockdooshbag]

they told me that it took them 6.5 hours to do the cambelt (book time is 3.5) due to the guy not being very experienced on these cambelts!

As soon as i heard this i would have flipped. No way i would want some inexperienced guy doing a cambelt change on my car. If i wanted that i would have done it myself. I wouod be asking someone experienced to re-do the work ASAP as if your timings out then you will have problems ahead.

[ruffday]

Sounds like the belt has been fitted badly and the pump timing is out.

[booke23]

I did express my concern to the service dept when they told me that it took them 6.5 hours to do the cambelt (book time is 3.5) due to the guy not being very experienced on these cambelts!

Almost certainly, that's your answer. The timing pins they use when they change the belt are very easy to insert incorrectly.

I know this because I changed my own cambelt a few months ago. I found the only sure way to know the pins are properly engaged is to try to turn the cams slightly with a wrench before you loosen the cam sprocket bolts.

I bet one or both pins were not seated properly and the timing is out slightly.

[M12MKD]

Timing is out for sure. Get it back to the dealers and tell them to check it. This is excactly the same issues as my friends fabia diesel.

They didnt fit the belt correctly.

[kris1]

Theyve fitted it wrong, take it back.

I had exactly the same with an old polo and they had fitted the belt incorrect and the timing was off. I had the same symptoms you mention above

[wiilydog]

poor mpg and difficult starting are all signs that the cambelt timing has not been done properly

[Stormchaser]

due to the guy not being very experienced on these.

OMG that rings alarm bells with me.

[richiewill83]

Hi guys.

Thanks for all the responses. I got the car from Bristol Street motors.

Have booked it in for next Friday for them to look at it stating the issues I am having since cambelt change. They warned me that they would charge a £72 inspection fee if the fault is nothing to do with them changing the cam belt.

Is there an easy way to check if the timing is definitely out? And would a vag specialist charge me much to do this?

Is there any other reason that the timing would be out apart from the timing belt being incorrectly fitted?

Many thanks so far.

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[silver1011]

I would be going for a second opinion first before letting them loose under the bonnet again.

It sounds to me as though they're going to sting you for £72 whether they find/admit to the fault or not.

That will get you almost two hours labour at a good VAG indy. He'll confirm the problem.

Then take it back to BSM and then see how honest they are!

[richiewill83]

Yeah I asked them about the second opinion and the fact they could just say it's nothing to do with the cambelt..... To this they quoted the whole trading standards policy and that they are not a back street garage.

Think I will get it into a vag indy beforehand. Can anyone recommend any the Lincoln area?

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[FUBAR]

Are you having to drive from Lincoln to Newcastle to get them to recheck their own work? If so I would demand Skoda dealer or specialist looks at it at their expense would be same deal if not their fault you pay but I would be happier risking the expense rather than the cost of fuel and running the car rough up there. They said the guy/girl hasn't much experience so I would also want to know if the only person they could find last time didn't know what he/she was doing who exactly is going to be looking at it this time. What is the score with the warranty they gave you on it does that allow you to take it anywhere else also?

A friend bought a used car and was back in for some work at same place not long after getting it similar had to be booked in job (a warning light) issue was very expensive to fix but he got it back light out (bulb removed) he noticed dash had been out and had it checked then understandably was not impressed went back insisted it was sorted and wanted refund if not done by main dealer. They sent it to main dealer then refused to authorise the work there once they got price from them (lied about this too intended to take it back and do it themselves say it was dealer, dealer shopped them when asked directly) and he ended up with a refund 3 months later. I don't know what the specific rights you have buying from a trader not a private sale I believe you have some might be worth arming yourself by checking it out.

[wiilydog]

anyone with a VCDS lead will be able to check if the timing is out (see link below)

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/multi/PD-adjust-Idle-TDI.htm

[Norton Ian]

Yeah I asked them about the second opinion and the fact they could just say it's nothing to do with the cambelt..... To this they quoted the whole trading standards policy and that they are not a back street garage.

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Bit rich saying that when it looks like they can't fit a cam belt properly.

Ian

[softscoop]

Think I will get it into a vag indy beforehand. Can anyone recommend any the Lincoln area?

These guys are pretty good from what I've heard.

http://www.lincoln-vw.co.uk/

[Vectensian]

From reading this post it seems to me that you may have two unrelated problems and that it is probably pure coincidence that one has happened at the same time.

Firstly, the revs rising, without an increase in vehicle speed. This can only be due to the clutch slipping and is usually the indication that the clutch is in fact on the way out and will need replacing. I'm guessing, but I imagine your car has done a fair few miles?

The other problems are as other contributors are all saying is that the timing of the cam belt is incorrect. In other words, when the toothed belt was fitted, the mechanic managed to fit it out of position, probably by one tooth, perhaps because he did not have the wheels on the engine lined in the exact correct position relative to each other. Sometimes an untensioned belt can fool you as to which exact teeth should fit exactly where, because the untensioned belt can seem half a tooth out. Get it wrong and you're one tooth out. I've done that one myself in the past !! Any sensible garage should be wised up to that one.

Hope this helps.

[martinch]

that they are not a back street garage.

Someone I knew had a vehicle repaired by another branch after an accident. After declaring the work "done", the inspector rejected it 3 times, requiring remedial work to be done.

I don't know what the specific rights you have buying from a trader not a private sale I believe you have some might be worth arming yourself by checking it out.

Something like this? Basically, if the vehicle is in an unsatisfactory condition (given its age, mileage, and cost) within 6 months of purchase, the onus is on the dealership to prove it wasn't faulty when they sold it. Should it be concluded they had sold a defective product, they would be liable for consequential costs, e.g. fuel for the Lincoln-Newcastle trip, if that was required, etc.

Edited 30 October, 2012 by martinch

[FUBAR]

Something like this? Basically, if the vehicle is in an unsatisfactory condition (given its age, mileage, and cost) within 6 months of purchase, the onus is on the dealership to prove it wasn't faulty when they sold it. Should it be concluded they had sold a defective product, they would be liable for consequential costs, e.g. fuel for the Lincoln-Newcastle trip, if that was required, etc.

Cheers good to know.

[richiewill83]

From reading this post it seems to me that you may have two unrelated problems and that it is probably pure coincidence that one has happened at the same time.

Firstly, the revs rising, without an increase in vehicle speed. This can only be due to the clutch slipping and is usually the indication that the clutch is in fact on the way out and will need replacing. I'm guessing, but I imagine your car has done a fair few miles?

The other problems are as other contributors are all saying is that the timing of the cam belt is incorrect. In other words, when the toothed belt was fitted, the mechanic managed to fit it out of position, probably by one tooth, perhaps because he did not have the wheels on the engine lined in the exact correct position relative to each other. Sometimes an untensioned belt can fool you as to which exact teeth should fit exactly where, because the untensioned belt can seem half a tooth out. Get it wrong and you're one tooth out. I've done that one myself in the past !! Any sensible garage should be wised up to that one.

Hope this helps.

Thaks very much for reply, the car is booked in for Friday so will see what they say.

The car has only done 19000 miles. Is this a bit low for the clutch to fail? It's is the dsg model so obviously abit more to go wrong.

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[richiewill83]

Someone I knew had a vehicle repaired by another branch after an accident. After declaring the work "done", the inspector rejected it 3 times, requiring remedial work to be done.

Something like this? Basically, if the vehicle is in an unsatisfactory condition (given its age, mileage, and cost) within 6 months of purchase, the onus is on the dealership to prove it wasn't faulty when they sold it. Should it be concluded they had sold a defective product, they would be liable for consequential costs, e.g. fuel for the Lincoln-Newcastle trip, if that was required, etc.

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Thanks very much for this info... Could be very useful.

[richiewill83]

Well. The car was dropped off this morning. Had a phone call 5 hours later saying that they have test driven the car and it all seems fine and drives very punchy! Must be the magic technician.

I asked the service guy if they checked the timing was correct and if so how. He replied yes they checked by listening, looking and test driving it to confirm to timing Is correct. Now I'm no expert but I don't suppose this is the recommended technique for diagnosis of a timing fault. Can you check the timing without the use of vcds?

They are keeping the car until Monday so they can try starting it from cold to see if it is struggling in the mornings as I stated. If they still say it's all fine I will be taking it for a test drive with them in the passenger seat and then insisting on a second opinion.

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[m0bov]

If these are not main dealers or VAG indy then they might not have the right kit. I would get the car out of there ASAP and get it checked at a dealer or good Indy. If its ok, then you have piece of mind. If its faulty then you can charge them for it as you have given them resonable chance to fix the fault. You are also expecting to have the work carried out with due care under SOGA.

[kris1]

Thaks very much for reply, the car is booked in for Friday so will see what they say.

The car has only done 19000 miles. Is this a bit low for the clutch to fail? It's is the dsg model so obviously abit more to go wrong.

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excuse my ignorance, but why have the cambelt changed on a car with only 20K on it?

[chr1staylor]

excuse my ignorance, but why have the cambelt changed on a car with only 20K on it?

It's done on mileage OR age, Skoda UK advise changing the cambelt at 4yrs*, so presumably the OP's car is that age.

*this is quite controversial, and apparently the UK is the only location that they insist on this.