Looking for advice on Smart Roadster and Mazda MX5

[Jack M]

Hi all,

 

I'm looking at changing my car in September for my birthday and have whittled it down to a Mazda MX5 or a Smart Roadster (Preferably the Brabus variant of the Roadster Coupe).

 

My question is has anyone on here owned one or had any time in one? 

 

I'm wanting to know the positives and negatives, anything to look out for on second hand ones, etc etc.

 

Just a bit of impartial advice on the car as I really do like the look of them and they're not all that expensive to buy and insure for me (even the Brabus ones).

 

Thanks

Jack M

 

*EDIT* 

 

Opened it up slightly more asking for advice on both the roadster and the MX5.

 

Specifically which models and variants of each are good and which aren't. along with any other bits of helpful advice (like the comments below)

[Chris]

My dad used to have a Roadster Coupe. Brilliant noise, quite fun. But slow...gear change not the best as its auto/paddle shift.

Midway through they changed the coupe so it was only available with a softroof. Dad had the 2 piece hard roof which was good for windnoise but not overly practical for taking off as it pretty much filled the boot.

Personally..get the MX-5. I love the Smart but its not fast, not as good handling but rare and values are on the up.

The brabus might be better but I've no experience of that engine.

[JerryT]

Can't help on the Smart, but if an MX-5 take a look at MX-5 owners club and MX-5 nutzs. Watch out for Mk 2's some can be as rotten as hell. Principally chassis rails which can't be seen without very careful inspection. HTH

[jamiebeveridge]

Smarts are great fun but been there done that and got the tshirt and its not a t-shirt id reccommend. The quality control on smarts is very patchy both the 600 and 700cc engines are pretty much knackered at 50,000 and need new rings and a rebuild at this time. A few go further but as a general rule they let go at 50k. The oil needs changing every 5000 miles in order to get any length of life out of the engine. In the smart community roadsters are commonly called leaksters as 99 percent leak in all sorts of places. The turbos have a very very high failure rate for cracking. due to the nature of the engine they are revved alot and as such are unduly stressed. The brabus turbo isnt quite as bad for cracking but they still fail alot. The brabus wheels are attrocious ina number of ways they suffer white worm as badly as any diamond poliahed alloy but they are incredibly soft and withe the hard suspension setup regularly buckle. Brabus ones have been driven harder than standard ones so id be even more dubious about one. Many many have been remapped which accelerate the above engine and turbo problems. On a a good day they are great when its all working they sound incredible and give many smiles. But they are awkward to service which they require often they all leak and the engine will either need to have had new rings or will want then soon and the turbo will crack its not if but when. Also the aircon is very very weak and using it on a hot day will cause overheating if u are in traffic for any length of time as the rear engine engine setup needs alot of air forced through an under car scoop. In short ud have gd days and bad days but they really arnt buy them run them and forget cars.

[Soot1e]

I'll agree with MX5 alternative, you can do so much to them and parts are cheap.    Don't be fooled with the name Brabus stuck on the roadster, it's slow

[Toxicvrs]

Smarts are great fun but been there done that and got the tshirt and its not a t-shirt id reccommend. The quality control on smarts is very patchy both the 600 and 700cc engines are pretty much knackered at 50,000 and need new rings and a rebuild at this time. A few go further but as a general rule they let go at 50k. The oil needs changing every 5000 miles in order to get any length of life out of the engine. In the smart community roadsters are commonly called leaksters as 99 percent leak in all sorts of places. The turbos have a very very high failure rate for cracking. due to the nature of the engine they are revved alot and as such are unduly stressed. The brabus turbo isnt quite as bad for cracking but they still fail alot. The brabus wheels are attrocious ina number of ways they suffer white worm as badly as any diamond poliahed alloy but they are incredibly soft and withe the hard suspension setup regularly buckle. Brabus ones have been driven harder than standard ones so id be even more dubious about one. Many many have been remapped which accelerate the above engine and turbo problems. On a a good day they are great when its all working they sound incredible and give many smiles. But they are awkward to service which they require often they all leak and the engine will either need to have had new rings or will want then soon and the turbo will crack its not if but when. Also the aircon is very very weak and using it on a hot day will cause overheating if u are in traffic for any length of time as the rear engine engine setup needs alot of air forced through an under car scoop. In short ud have gd days and bad days but they really arnt buy them run them and forget cars.

Yup I can second this the neighbours engine blew at 53k we then spent a week dismantling it and refitting a new engine during evenings after work! Imagine it's a more substantial job in a roadster / coupe as this was only on a for2 which just lifts off the rear subframe!

[Fabia00]

Hi, 

 

Well have owned an MX-5 MK2.5 and currently have a Smart Roadster Coupe 80, have had the smart a year now. So think I can speak on both. Bought the MX-5 as wimped out of buying the smart due to horror stories but after 9 months I got rid mainly due to the level of rust including chassis rails and bought the Smart . Plus as much as the MX-5 drives brilliantly much better than the Smart it is a little dull and souless.

 

The Smart is 80% as good to drive as the MX-5 and has a lot more features and safety if you find the right one such as heated seats, cruise control, air con (which has already been said suffered a broken pipe fortunately despite being 8 years old Mercedes gave goodwill and replaced it completely at a cost of £400), electric mirrors side airbags esp etc. I would avoid the Brbaus due mainly to the wheels which are as solid as melted chocolate and the body kit which at a B service has to be removed and by all accounts makes a difficult job even worse. If I were to buy again I would go for the notch rather than Coupe as the rear windows on the coupe have to be removed to remove the rear body work however the screws snap and they cost £180 a side to replace having just replaced both on mine due to the previous owner I don't wish to have that expense again. 

 

The 700 cc engine in the roadster is a lot stronger than in the fortwo there are rebuilds but not as many there are several roadsters with over 100,000 miles with no engine issues one on theroadster.net forum is upto 267,000 miles all original. Mine is currently on 76,000. The 600cc engine in left hand drive models and in the fortwo is the one which needs a rebuild after about 50,000.

 

Leaks - where to begin they all leak to some extent which is why they were pulled as they used to fry the SAM units basically the fuse board which controls all functions of the car. It is located in the drivers footwell beneath the scuttle panel and was never properly sealed (one of the first jobs to check) so water on early ones ran straight on to it and fried the electrics. Other leaks can cause condensation to do the same or worse as the underside of the carpet is like a sponge the top feels dry but underneath it is soaking. If looking at one pull up every conceivable bit of carpet and stick your hand underneath. They leak from the side windows, the rear of the electric roof and so on. Most can be fixed to a certain extent just make sure there is extra sealing on the tridion if you look as most were taken back by Mercedes and Smart applied extra sealing to bond the Tridion to the body. 

 

Buying a later one means it may have been sat for a long time as they only did two productions runs between 2003 and 2005 but it is possible to pick some not registered until late 2007. There are a lot of average ones it took me three months searching to find the spec i wanted and one which appears to be well looked after and I had to travel to Scotland for it. Worth it for the drive back though . Be prepared for lots of frustrations and delight in equal measure, also check the earth strap which can cause all sorts of electrical issues due to the cheap exposed one fitted which rusts. When I first got mine it wouldn't start several times in the first week replaced this and has been ok since there have been other issues such as the airbag warning light, horn stopped working, thermostat broken which have needed some attention.

 

Overall they do attract a lot of attention and questions and they should hold their value due to the limited numbers. 

 

Best thing is to read as many buyers guides as you can and also check out theroadster.net which has loads of valuable info and help from other owners. Any other questions just ask 

 

David 

[Chris]

Equally my dads Smart went to 118k with no issues apart from regular servicing.

[jamiebeveridge]

As i said there are a few examples thayhave gone higher mileage but as a percentage the failure rate is horrific and almost unrivaled by any other manufacturer. 1.4tsi not withstanding. Theybare potentially good cars but thwy were hugely under tested and under developed but they are safe give them that

[stevie.d]

I run a smart roadster for over 4 years without any problems from leaks etc and it was a great wee car

Was also remapped pretty much from day one.

Great handling little cars and would defo recommend one if you can find a good one.

 

[Fabia00]

Like the roadster stevie.d. Here is mine: 

[Jack M]

Thanks for all the comments so far.

 

Its unfortunate to hear so many horror stories of the roadster as it would be a perfect little car for me. One of the main selling points for a car is insurance as I'm still young and have to pay stupid amounts.

 

I'm looking about £1000-£1600 for insurance depending on the type of MX5 I go for, whereas the roadster is coming out at about £600-£900 depending on the variant which is a substantial amount of money for me.

 

I do like the MX5s and they do appeal to me but I just liked the appeal of the roadster that bit more, even with the slower gearbox etc. I like the rarity of these much more.

 

Please keep comments coming in and any more information as anything will help me greatly! Both on the Roadster and the MX5

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

A bloke at work has a smart roadster, loves it and has had very few issues BUT when he has had issues parts have been a nightmare to get, the last one was a 2 month wait for something, luckily he had another car to use. 

[jamiebeveridge]

That sums it up really they only suit as a secind car and not as a daily driver that u need to rely on. Also road noise is very intrusive as the plastic body panels are hardly any use at keeping out noise. All adds to the appeal on short runs but u arrive with ringing ears on a longer journey. Forgot to mention that brabus exhausts are made entirely of rust as they are mild steel with chrome finishers they last literally 2-3 years.

[Aspman]

Mate had a Roadster Brabus. Said it had a habit of changing lanes on its own in very wet weather.

Same mate also had an MX5 which he got rid of after spinning it on a roundabout for the umpteenth time.

 

Says more about my mate than the car really but he's not a particularly mad driver.

Edited 11 June, 2014 by Aspman

[lfc958]

Have experience of both & was looking for a toy to compliment the Yeti.

 

Whist the Smart is newer, lighter & smaller than the MX5, It is fun to drive, hold the road well & the road tax is cheaper ( so can the insurance )  the major reason I did not go for another one is the following-  

The flappy paddle gearbox became a MAJOR irritation when driving & spoiled the whole driving experience,  it is so slow to change up despite knowing the trick of keep acclerating while changing the car is still jerky between gear changes.

The car MUST be serviced every 8000 miles otherwise you will get problems with it. 

Servicing is relatively expensive even at a Smart specialist, if you go to a Smart ( Mercedes) dealer then be prepared to be looked down on & get Mercedes prices.( there is NO oil sump plug & old oil needs to be pumped out- Plugs are awkward to get at )

The engine SHOULD be re bullt at  between 80-100000 miles, but if it isnt then expect problems.

On the + side:-

Early models did leak, but there are plenty of suggestions on forums on how to fix yourself

Forums are friendly and will offer any advice you need to keep the car going.

They do hold their prices specially the Brabus versions as these owners generally bought as a toy / summer car.

They can be a hoot to drive & the feeling of speed ( even at 50 on windy roads) is great.

 

MX5

The road tax is LOTS more than the Smart, & by the sounds of it insurance is expensive for you.( was it the 1.6 or 1.8 that gave you the high Insurance ? )

The 5 feels a LOT more surefooted when on the twisty's 

You get a proper open top car with the 5 & NOT a Targa opening that you get with the Roadie.( although you can close the electric roof driving at any speed in the Roadie) 

 

When you drive an MX5 because it is 'old' tech, it engages you a lot more than the Roadie with all its electronics.

As my eldest son said when he had a drive, it is like driving a dodgem car precise & instant response to your driving.

IF you start to nudge the backend out then lift off the power & the rear LSD kicks in & brings you back into line quite quickly, the Roadie is not that responsive.

 

While there are MX5 lemons out there that can cost to bring up to MOT std, they are far cheaper to do than the Roadie lemons you can get.

I found being patient, setting a budget for car & possible repairs, take someone with you who knows the flaws, you can get a decent or bargain MX5  as there are plenty around.

I can understand the appeal of exclusivity of the Roadie, as you have heard - This comes at a price.

 

If you really want a Roadster, then by all means get one otherwise you will kick yourself that you never experienced one, BUT be patient, buy the best you can afford, & get it independently checked, if the owner refuses , then walk away as these can be very expensive mistakes.

 

My personal view is that the MX5 I have is a real step back to actually driving a car rather than guiding an electronic laden, fossil fuel driven vehicle.

There is nothing wrong with the modern cars, the 5 is an antidote

[lfc958]

Mate had a Roadster Brabus. Said it had a habit of changing lanes on its own in very wet weather.

Some mate also had an MX5 which he got rid of after spinning it on a roundabout for the umpteenth time.

 

Says more about my mate than the car really but he's not a particularly mad driver.

 

Did they both have lead hidden in the right foot ?     

[Soot1e]

Have experience of both & was looking for a toy to compliment the Yeti.

 

Whist the Smart is newer, lighter & smaller than the MX5, It is fun to drive, hold the road well & the road tax is cheaper ( so can the insurance )  the major reason I did not go for another one is the following-  

The flappy paddle gearbox became a MAJOR irritation when driving & spoiled the whole driving experience,  it is so slow to change up despite knowing the trick of keep acclerating while changing the car is still jerky between gear changes.

The car MUST be serviced every 8000 miles otherwise you will get problems with it. 

Servicing is relatively expensive even at a Smart specialist, if you go to a Smart ( Mercedes) dealer then be prepared to be looked down on & get Mercedes prices.( there is NO oil sump plug & old oil needs to be pumped out- Plugs are awkward to get at )

The engine SHOULD be re bullt at  between 80-100000 miles, but if it isnt then expect problems.

On the + side:-

Early models did leak, but there are plenty of suggestions on forums on how to fix yourself

Forums are friendly and will offer any advice you need to keep the car going.

They do hold their prices specially the Brabus versions as these owners generally bought as a toy / summer car.

They can be a hoot to drive & the feeling of speed ( even at 50 on windy roads) is great.

 

MX5

The road tax is LOTS more than the Smart, & by the sounds of it insurance is expensive for you.( was it the 1.6 or 1.8 that gave you the high Insurance ? )

The 5 feels a LOT more surefooted when on the twisty's 

You get a proper open top car with the 5 & NOT a Targa opening that you get with the Roadie.( although you can close the electric roof driving at any speed in the Roadie) 

 

When you drive an MX5 because it is 'old' tech, it engages you a lot more than the Roadie with all its electronics.

As my eldest son said when he had a drive, it is like driving a dodgem car precise & instant response to your driving.

IF you start to nudge the backend out then lift off the power & the rear LSD kicks in & brings you back into line quite quickly, the Roadie is not that responsive.

 

While there are MX5 lemons out there that can cost to bring up to MOT std, they are far cheaper to do than the Roadie lemons you can get.

I found being patient, setting a budget for car & possible repairs, take someone with you who knows the flaws, you can get a decent or bargain MX5  as there are plenty around.

I can understand the appeal of exclusivity of the Roadie, as you have heard - This comes at a price.

 

If you really want a Roadster, then by all means get one otherwise you will kick yourself that you never experienced one, BUT be patient, buy the best you can afford, & get it independently checked, if the owner refuses , then walk away as these can be very expensive mistakes.

 

My personal view is that the MX5 I have is a real step back to actually driving a car rather than guiding an electronic laden, fossil fuel driven vehicle.

There is nothing wrong with the modern cars, the 5 is an antidote

That's a real good back to back comparison, well done. I've only sampled an MX5 now and again but would like a project MX5 one day and supercharge it.

[lfc958]

That's a real good back to back comparison, well done. I've only sampled an MX5 now and again but would like a project MX5 one day and supercharge it.

 

If you are seriously thinking about a 5 project, you dont need the complication of a supercharger, there is a bolt on turbo kit that fits straight onto a std engine that can give up to 200bhp on the 1.8 engine.

A little searching on the web has plenty of info on how to do this.

[Jack M]

Found 2 mk1s for sale modified, one with a turbo one with a supercharger, the supercharged one looks a lot more looked after and a lot more attention to detail! but again i dont think my insurance would get along with me if i had this :L

[sniperpenguin]

Bit of a curveball.... Check out the MGTF

 

Dirt cheap to buy, dirt cheap to fix..... Buy owners club membership for £40/year and you get cheap insurance too

 

CONS - Lots of lemons, lots of idiots making the K-Series "headgasket" joke without driving one / understanding what is actually going on, very old tech, very hard to get near 200BHP due to limited space.

 

PROS - Cheap parts, great community, Rear wheel drive and great cornering feel.

 

Depending on your budget, you can either get an older toy for around £2K or a much more recent model (08 onwards) nearer to £5-6K

[skomaz]

With a choice between the two it'd be MX5 all the way for me (and has been for the last 16 years of ownership!)

 

There are a few of us on here as noted but the advice above is all pretty good.  If you do a search on MX5 you should find more:

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/186138-mk2-mx5/

[MickA]

I'd go Mx-5, I've owned three, Mk1, Mk2 and now Mk3. You can now pick up an half decent Mk1 for as little as £1k, imports are in better condition generally than Uk versions. Mk2 are now becoming cheaper due to recent rust issues found in some on the front chassis rails and in the later Mk2.5 as well. Again an import Mk2 will be a better buy, I had one and it was rust free, imported 2008.

Expect to pay £1500-£2000 for a Mk2 in resonable condition but watch out for some repairs been done to as above front rails, rear sill/wheel arch areas. The Mk1 suffer in the same areas as well but most have ok front chassis rails.

If your budget is higher then the Mk3s will start around £4k may be lower this coming winter as prices start dipping, thats for a very early model Mk3.

Plenty of info as mention on the owners club website Mx5oc or Mx5nutz do a search I'm a member of both.

Most mechanical stuff on them is straight forward, they are easy to work on, easy to modify and spares aplenty and reasonably priced.

Any particular questions just ask but some good advice from others above so far.

Edited 13 June, 2014 by MickA

[oilburninnut]

I would steer clear of either, smarts blow up and the mazda rots like hell

[vindaloo]

MR2 then?