Alton towers accident - smiler

[MikeF]

Just seen that the smiler suffered a serious failure today and two cars collided leaving four with serious injuries, hope everyone makes a speedy recovery. I don't think it will be in operation again for some time. Anyone been on it, it was good at first but the last time I rode it didn't seem very smooth at all.

http://i.imgur.com/6BqHglh.png

[Taxi_G]

I was down a few weeks back & ive got to say the Smiler was fantastic! Although it did break down with us sitting outside for about 15 mins waiting to get back in at the end, and to top it off, it was pouring from the heavens.

Hope all involved make a full recovery

G

[Dr Zoidberg]

It does seem to have had a problematic history. Sounds like the four seriously injured people were on the front row, so probably leg injuries.

[lol-lol]

Did not like the Smiler ride, too many small loops in to short fast sequence.

 

Lots of great rides at Alton Towers, everything we do carries risk, hope it does not affect Alton Towers too much but of course that those injured recover ASAP. 

[Chris]

The smiler has been problematic since day one. It hasn't been reported but the trains stall in that location pretty often.

My understanding is that the empty train stalled between the 2 inversions, and someone/something released the train full of passengers into that zone before the empty train had cleared the zone. It obviously didn't clear as it stalled.

As the safety systems are so robust and computerised it will be interesting to see what the cause comes back as.

I hope the people involved are all ok.

[Defenderben]

Just reported on the national news, that some injuries could be life changing :( doesn't sound too good.

[Chris]

There's mobile footage doing the rounds of the accident/immediatly after. Looks pretty bad.

If I'd spent £14 million on a ride that has had this many problems, I'd be rejecting it and buying something else! Wheels falling off, stalls and now a crash!

[Chris]

Parks closed today! That surprises me as previously they have just closed the ride area. I guess it is much higher profile than previous incidents and they won't want 10,000 people all trying to get a glimpse or be asking the same questions...

[MikeF]

Another article here, looks like someone has lost a leg which is shocking news

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11647707/Alton-Towers-shut-amid-investigation-into-rollercoaster-crash-as-victim-loses-leg.html

[Aspman]

Horrible.

 

I have been on it and liked it. Possibly not worth the queue though.

It's had some technical trouble in the past but nothing that affected safety.

Chap from AT was saying this morning that the specific circumstance of having another carriage in the same area has special measure to prevent it. I think the gist was that if the ride picks up two carriages in close proximity it applies the brakes automatically.

 

So serious questions about what happened or didn't happen.

[Dr Zoidberg]

Another article here, looks like someone has lost a leg which is shocking news

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11647707/Alton-Towers-shut-amid-investigation-into-rollercoaster-crash-as-victim-loses-leg.html

 

Not surprised - if you look at the design of the carriage there's a metal section across the front row of seats which would have been forced back when it ran into the stationary carriage in front.

[Chris]

The park is remaining closed tomorrow too!

[Coops]

Was listening to the radio at lunch and I guy who used to work at Chessington suggested that it was almost impossible for this to happen manually, ie. unlikely it was negligence. He commented that there are so many safety features involved, it would need to be a catastrophic failure in the systems for it to occur.

 

Regardless, something has failed to allow a full carriage out whilst the (previous) empty hasn't returned.

[io1901]

Was listening to the radio at lunch and I guy who used to work at Chessington suggested that it was almost impossible for this to happen manually, ie. unlikely it was negligence. He commented that there are so many safety features involved, it would need to be a catastrophic failure in the systems for it to occur.

 

Regardless, something has failed to allow a full carriage out whilst the (previous) empty hasn't returned.

 

They could have just looked to see if the track was clear - I'd count that as negligence.

[Coops]

They could have just looked to see if the track was clear - I'd count that as negligence.

 

I agree. I would be questioning myself that the other carriage (empty) hadn't returned.

 

So if someone has released the full one, and has the system does in fact allow it, that is both a system flaw and negligence?

[Chris]

There's a lot of discussion on the fan sites about this..apparently it is possible that the system was overridden into a manual mode for the engineers..but it's pure speculation.

It will all come out in the investigation hopefully.

[Aspman]

I agree. I would be questioning myself that the other carriage (empty) hadn't returned.

 

So if someone has released the full one, and has the system does in fact allow it, that is both a system flaw and negligence?

 

By the sounds of it there can be more than one carriage going at a time. The ride is a few minutes long so I guess they can run them more frequently to get the rider through.

From the guy I heard speaking there are zones on the ride and more than one carriage can't be in any one zone.

 

That sounds very software driven.

Software / sensor error maybe.

Didn't detect the two car condition or didn't send the braking signal.

[MikeF]

I don't think the catestrophic failure will sit well with merlin group, it wouldn't surprise me if gerstlauer don't get any more contracts

I wonder what will happen to the smiler though, it's had it's fair share of issues and with the seriousness of the accident i think it will be a while till we see it back at full capacity.

[Chris]

Essentially there are several zones. In this case

-train one in zone (empty) dosent clear said zone..stalled between inversions.

-train two began accent up the lift hill and the computer recognised the train one hadn't cleared so stopped the train two at the top. This stayed the same for approx ten minutes.

-All of a sudden train two moves off lift hill and by that point its too late.

Something made the train two come off the lift. Either the system reset and the block system didn't realise there was a train on the track or someone manually overid the system not realising that train hadn't returned to the final brake run.

All a bit odd..

[Coops]

Really odd indeed, I think it best left to the HSE and investigators to determine.

[mac11irl]

Much like full size trains Theres a couple of different detetection systems they can use - coded track circuits which talk to each uniquely id'd train or axle counters which literally count axles entering and leaving a section. If the system was on azle counters and the system got reset the counter wouldve detetected 0 axles in section where the stallled empty was sitting and released the 2nd train... we've been told the em induction loops in A/Cs are pretty sensitive. Certain types work boot passing too close to them can activate a count and block a section, or passing a shovel over the top... one of the main reasons i prefer the coded tc system..

[cheezemonkhai]

Personal tragidy aside, being closed this long has got to be costing them a fortune.

 

I can see the company getting not further contracts. Did anyone see the info about the texas incident on one of their rides?

Edited 4 June, 2015 by cheezemonkhai

[Maverick vRS]

a picture of the carriages - With the opening date of May 31st 2013 - 2 years ago almost to the day!

 

[Chris]

It depends where the fault lies. The ride system may not be at fault...in which case theres no reason not to give the manufacturer any further contracts.

The issue with stalling trains goes right back to opening, and IMO it should have been resolved then. The trains only just have enough ooomph in them to get them over the inversions in question. A gust of wind is enough to show it down just enough to stop it making it. Now add in a train with no weight in it (usually the empty trains run with weighted dummies) and its really going to struggle with a gust of wind.

I'm a long time coaster enthusiast and haven't ridden the smiler. Every time I've been to Alton its been closed. Compare that to 21 year old Nemesis that is as about as reliable as they come!

Interestingly according to the designer of Nemesis when the subject of a train stalling was brought up when designing Nemesis, the guys from the manufacturer (B&M) looked him straight in the eye as if he was mad and said "our coasters dont stall" and that was that. Admitadky they have around the world since..but still..big balls to state that!

[MikeF]

500k a day is the current estimate to keep the park shut

Per day!

Wow

Add that to the 100 million drop in the share price, bad publicity and putting the public in danger and that 18 million for the smiler doesn't quite seem worth it.