I don't need winter tyres because I am so awesome thread

[Huskoda]

Why would I bother with a stepladder? I've never broken a leg changing bulbs while balanced on an office chair!

 

I've never thought it necessary to buy screwdrivers. My hammer drives in nails and screws perfectly well!

 

If you need goggles to cut metal, you're doing it wrong. I just look away when using my angle grinder and cut slowly.

[Phil-E]

When I first got this car I attended a meeting. Dieseldarren was there with his winter tyres on his Octavia 2.0 PD140 Sport.

 

We popped into Ikea for a cuppa and we nipped to see my mum who lives at the top of a fairly gradual hill that doesn't get gritted.

 

I had my foot to the floor, wheels spinning, traction control kicking in crawling up the hill... Darren simply just drove up the hill and wondered what all the fuss was about! lol

 

They do make a HUGE difference.

[Llanigraham]

I think a few people need to reread this post and think before they post derogatory comments.

 

I have no problem at all with people who want to fit winter cars to their tyres.

Unfortunately, like most obsessed evangelists they tend to lack any sense of humour, and to lack balance when their entrenched views are challenged.

 

I would point out that we do not live in Norway, Latvia / Estonia, Germany or any other part of mainland Continental Europe. We live on an island, with a Maritime climate warmed by the warm Gulf Stream current.

 

The obsession with 7C arises from 1930's USA where the rubber compounds commonly used 80 years ago changed their characteristics at that temperature, hence this was decided on by the US tyre manufacturers as the point at which winter tyres should be fitted. It has now become part of the tyre Creed, necessarily subscribed to by all true believers.

 

Average winter temperatures in UK from November to march vary from South to North, as is to be expected.

For example in:

London the temperature on average never drops below 7C

Cardif has 3 months where temps 4 - 6

Birmingham for 3 of those months the temperature varies from 3 - 5

Belfast - 4 months 4 - 6

Leeds - average from 3 - 5

Newcastle -  4 months average from 3-4

Edinburgh - 5 months average 3 - 6

Aberdeen 5 months 2 - 4

 

Bear in mind that these are average temperatures - overnight temperatures (when many fewer vehicles are on the road will be lower, daytime temps. higher.

 

So if you live in the North, drive a lot during the hours of darkness and want to fit tyres to cope with these slightly reduced temperatures go ahead.

BUT don't assume that the rest of us are stupid, ignorant or reactionary because we don't automatically agree wholeheartedly.

 

You have made a decision, but don't try to impose it on the rest of us. One of the frightening remarks when discussing this was comparison with various imposed safety requirements one chilling phrase stood out - all these things became mandatory. So the winter tyre advocates seem to be suggesting that yet another piece of legislation should be added to that already imposed on vehicle drivers.

[Aspman]

IF I had the cash to spare I'd buy them. But I don't so I cope.

 

20yr of coping means I'm reasonably good at driving in the snow and I've coped through some attrocious stuff on summer treads.

 

But I'd still buy them if I had the spare cash.

[Ootohere]

Just a small point on UK Average Temperatures and Cities.

 

I am maybe teaching Granny to suck eggs.

 

But often big Towns and Cities came about where there was habitation and Water for Drinking,  Rivers, & for Transport by Sea or big rivers from the sea, so Ports.

Temperatures & Prevailing weather is different, and then Cities create differing Ground & Air Temperatures.

 

Now if you think about it find where the Weather is not Extreme and Villages become Towns, towns become Cities,

but you do not have Cities in the UK where weather might be at its worst.

Like Airports and Runways,  Dyce is prone to Fog, but they are generally able to operate.

you build Airports in Areas of least Extreme Weather, apart maybe in the North of the UK where choice is limited.

ie Smaller Islands like the Orkneys or Shetland Islands.

 

So Cities & Trunk Routes in the UK and weather Averages are just that.

It is not representative of an Island Nation that is very varied from the South to the North and East to West.

 

If you live in a City and roads are not treated, then you are hardly House Bound.

 

Anyway, in the UK Home Deliveries from Asda, Tesco, Royal Mail, Couriers etc seem to manage to get around almost 365 days a year in the majority of the UK. 

[Huskoda]

I don't have an issue with people not fitting winter tyres.

 

I have an issue with:

1. People getting stuck blocking the road causing hours of unnecessary gridlock

2. People sliding uncontrollably into other vehicles/people/objects

3. Misrepresentation in the media encouraging people to buy 4 wheel drive vehicles

3b. with barely any mention of the suitability of their tyres

4. Said mis-educated buyers causing points 1 and 2.

 

The UK has the perfect climate (neither very hot nor very cold but relatively wet) for all-season tyres and I think we would be much better off if they were fitted as new for this market with more education. Not everyone has the money/space/time/desire to have two sets of wheels and that's fine. If they only have one set, I think they'd be better off with a set that matches the environment they will be used in.

 

If I were to only have one set of tyres, however and I must pick between winters and summers, I'd have the winters as they are better when you need them most.

[Phil-E]

I personally wouldn't mind if we followed Germany and other European countries where winter tyres are mandatory.

 

While you're using your winter tyres your summer tyres are sat in the dry not getting worn so in the long run it doesn't cost you much more. Very convenient too if you have a separate set of winter wheel pre-fitted with the tyres like most people do in Europe.

 

Phil

[Aspman]

I personally wouldn't mind if we followed Germany and other European countries where winter tyres are mandatory.

 

While you're using your winter tyres your summer tyres are sat in the dry not getting worn so in the long run it doesn't cost you much more. Very convenient too if you have a separate set of winter wheel pre-fitted with the tyres like most people do in Europe.

 

Phil

 

It's the initial cost for that that causes problems for many people. Ok when you have winter tyres the ongoing cost is no more than having one set since they wear at half the rate.

Also with the poky little houses that out legislators have forced many people to live in storing 4 or 8 large heavy dirty tyres isn't all that easy so they will have to pay out for tyre hotels or more likely will leave their winter tyres out baking in the sun for the summer, coz people are generally lazy and stupid.

 

It doesn't help with "our get to work at any cost" mentality.

[Coops]

You've also got to consider people's circumstances - I have a car but's it not mine, it's a lease car, supplied and maintained by my employer. They will not deem it necessary to supply me, or the other 400+ company cars, with winter tyres, wheels and associated other costs.

[Huskoda]

I personally wouldn't mind if we followed Germany and other European countries where winter tyres are mandatory.

I'd prefer a system where if you block the road or cause an accident because you're using summer tyres on the snow you get points and a fine. It might even already be able to be rolled into a CU20 offence.

 

Don't want them? Think you're awesome? Fine. Money where your mouth is, please. Else stay off the road 'for those few days'.

[Huskoda]

You've also got to consider people's circumstances - I have a car but's it not mine, it's a lease car, supplied and maintained by my employer. They will not deem it necessary to supply me, or the other 400+ company cars, with winter tyres, wheels and associated other costs.

This is a big reason I'd like to see them delivered with all-seasons in the UK.

[RobbySpurs]

I'll be honest and say I've never really given much consideration to, or even really been aware of winter tyres.  I sort of assumed. perhaps naively, that the tyres produced and sold by manufacturers were intended to offer the best all round performance in the most conditions, be it dry or wet.  yes I know some tyres might have better performance in certain conditions but generally they were all round tyres.  Am pretty sure this situation has existed for the 23 years I have been driving (certainly I have made it through 23 winters without them).

 

So are these winter tyres, in the distinctly average climate that exists in the UK (or at least the south where I live) a relatively new thing?  I guess for the uninitiated like me it is possible to be slightly cynical, and that the tyre manufacturers might be creating a situation with "seasonal" tyres where it is no longer good enough to have an all rounder, but a different set of tyres for each season.

 

I'll stress I am not dimissing them; all for anything that makes thing safer, but never really come across them.  And why would I need them when it hits 7 degrees?  

[fabdavrav]

I'll have a go without quoting some of the rubbish above..........

 

 

Where I live we get snow, not much but it's there. To go south I have to go over the moors/Aviemore so loads of snow. I like to ski & do mountaineering which involves driving to mountainous areas with snow at road level, down "B" & "C" roads. Most of these roads are not gritted/cleared that well, in fact it will get worse now as Highland Council have got a black hole of £46million in their budget, so guess what? they are cutting 12 gritters from the fleet in the next two years, after cutting two out this year & reducing the gritting times/roads for this winter!!!

 

I had for the first 15yrs up here just learnt to be very good at driving FWD cars in winter on standard tyres. Did all the above driving no problems, just took it easy when I had to, & had to have a couple of run ups one steep slope, had to have car pushed in one car park as no grip etc...........

 

Now I fit winter tyres & will never go back! So what happened?

 

The first of those good winters 2009/2010 I had to drive the car early one morning to the Skoda garage for an MOT. The roads were gritted but the temp was -10 to -15 & the grit was doing very little. The roads were totally coated in black ice & the car & everyone else was sliding around. Approaching the roundabouts (many in Inverness) at under 20mph the car would not stop, the ABS went mental, & the car carried on. No grip what so ever & I had over 5mm tread on my tyres! Got the car to the Skoda garage & was looking at the new Yeti there in 4x4, & was talking to the other people there who were all as shaken as I was from driving in on the dangerous roads!

 

I managed to get home on the main A road which was a bit better than first thing & then promptly did a lot of research on winter tyres & 4x4 & came to the conclusion that even if I bought the Yeti 4x4 I would still have to fit winter tyres to it to cope with those similar conditions as the Haldex would go nuts! & my brain would still be stressed out! So I managed to get the last complete set on Michelin Alpin A3's in the UK that winter in my size & what FUN!!! Talk about night & day! I have had to completely re-learn to fully exploit the handling in winter, but I can drive in a "rally " style & enjoy it and annoy all other people who have 4x4 on "summers". Or I can drive it when tried from ski-ing etc & still arrive home quick & safe!

 

Basically it turns winter driving from a stressful "am I going to hit black ice, slide every corner" trip into driving like a summers day...............

 

Oh and black ice of which we get masses of is much safer with winters on..................I can vouch for this as I hit a patch of ice on an off-camber corner at 30mph & the car drifted sideways, saw the ice 10m before & was doing 50mph, hit brakes, changed down, ABS tripped in very late, off brakes, turn into corner, power out & ASR/EDL kicks in, car drifts sideways, oppo lock on steering wheel, on straight car fine, big grin on face, mate in passenger seat mouth open, brown pants..............  .............on summers I would be dead...............in fact I wrote of a previous car at 30mph in a 60mph zone as it was winter & I had summers on.........still took me 9yrs after this to get winter tyres though.......

 

A couple of my friend do very little mileage each year, so they just fit winter tyres & drive on them all year! They are not performance drivers, so the summer driving is compromised which they admit, but no fussed, more concerned with lack of grip in winter is their view.......

[Huskoda]

I'll be honest and say I've never really given much consideration to, or even really been aware of winter tyres.  I sort of assumed. perhaps naively, that the tyres produced and sold by manufacturers were intended to offer the best all round performance in the most conditions, be it dry or wet.  yes I know some tyres might have better performance in certain conditions but generally they were all round tyres.  Am pretty sure this situation has existed for the 23 years I have been driving (certainly I have made it through 23 winters without them).

 

So are these winter tyres, in the distinctly average climate that exists in the UK (or at least the south where I live) a relatively new thing?  I guess for the uninitiated like me it is possible to be slightly cynical, and that the tyre manufacturers might be creating a situation with "seasonal" tyres where it is no longer good enough to have an all rounder, but a different set of tyres for each season.

 

I'll stress I am not dimissing them; all for anything that makes thing safer, but never really come across them.  And why would I need them when it hits 7 degrees?  

 

They're relatively recent in the UK due to a pretty much complete lack of advertising or education (media instead sying 'buy 4x4'). Internet tyre shops have opened the floodgates on them, more or less.

 

They work better in colder conditions as the compound does not go hard like standard tyre compounds, so they stay pliable and grippy. This is why they are better not just on snow/ice.

[mccarf]

The most damage I've ever caused to my car in 8 years of driving (because of winter) is a £30 part after I smashed my wheel into a kerb once in the snow. I cannot possibly buy 8 years worth of winter tyres for £30 = PROFIT

[briscaF1]

If you don't think they have a vested interest, and you believe anything a manufacturer says, maybe you'd consider a 4k or even an 8k telly? ;-)

I've been driving 30 odd years and the only winter tyres i had are some remoulds with deep treads that I kept in the boot of my MK2 escort if it was going to be snowy. Mostly, just the extra weight helped - I think I put them on once.

I think the biggest problem with the argument is that unless everyone has them, it simply doesn't work because it doesn't matter how well you go in the snow if the roads are blocked by people who can't get about.

Sent from my XT1039 using Tapatalk 2

[Chriswright03]

I think a few people need to reread this post and think before they post derogatory comments.

I think the point is Graham there is no need for derogatory comments at all from anyone.  Buy winter tyres/4 seasons tyres or don't it matters not to me. 

 

I have used winters in the past and for the circumstances I had them in they were a good purchase and I wouldn't hesitate to use them again.  As it happens I have just bought another car and the tyres are good all round.  For the mileage we do and the fact that we can walk to the shops if need be I will not bother with the expense at the moment.  When my tyres wear out I will certainly look at putting on all seasons.

 

Those are my views based on my personal circumstances which have recently changed.  Others have different circumstances and can make their own choice based on those without having to either defend their choice or attack someone because they have dared to post an alternative point of view.

 

Debate and informed discussion is one thing but name calling and aggressive posts adds nothing to the debate for me and frankly just makes me walk away.

[fabdavrav]

The most damage I've ever caused to my car in 8 years of driving (because of winter) is a £30 part after I smashed my wheel into a kerb once in the snow. I cannot possibly buy 8 years worth of winter tyres for £30 = PROFIT

 

As I posted above..........one 2 1/2 year old car written off in winter..................£5K I got from the insurers for a £10K car (approx. costs)

[BJM]

Just to clear up a point - the "offensive" word in question related to the shortened version of a member of the German National Socialist party, as in modern common usage as defined by the OED as "a dictatorial or intolerant person." - such as for instance Grammar ****, Food ****. etc.etc.

I apologise if some person has been offended by my choice of the word (or was it an attempt to obscure the message by complaining about the phraseology - a common political tactic)

 

Perhaps the word "zealot" would have been a better choice to avoid offence.

 

Secondly, nowhere have I referred to these as Snow tyres - it was the member from Norway who originally raised this.

 

Thirdly, using ridiculous analogies to attempt to denigrate an opponent is just that, ridiculous - in equally pointless response

Why would I erect scaffolding to change a lightbulb when I have a perfectly adequate stepladder?

Why would I buy a £100 power drill / screwdriver when I only need to drive in 10 screws and have a perfectly adequate manual screwdriver?

and so on.

 

I've constantly made the point that I have no objection to people fitting Winter tyres if they consider that their circumstances and preferrences require them. (Remember more live within the M25 ring than in the whole of Scotland - and yes, I know that it gets a bit cold in the North of England as well)
 

My objection to this remains that for the majority of the population of the UK they are not necessary, and to press for them as a legal requirement is another unnecessary pice of legislation imposed on the bulk of the arera UK and for the bulk of the population living herein.

 

It is interesting to note that some of the more vociferous posters have begun to move from the position of "everyone should have a set of Summer and a set of Winter tyres" to the "all weather tyre would be a good idea"

[Chriswright03]

Why do you have to address anyone as such anyway?  Why not just explain your point of view politely and leave it at that?  If others are a little more robust in their response it doesn't mean you have to stoop to that level.

 

May be just me but I really do not see the need for all of this aggressive posting no matter who it is from.

[Auric Goldfinger]

When driving around the country side in my Train I have to put up with  metal wheels on metal rails, No winter tyres for me     :no:

[Chriswright03]

Indeed then someone will go onto mention the wrong type of leaves on the line without having the faintest idea how serious it is!

[Furbytom]

It's interesting how this thread was allegedly intended (or was it?) to be a place for the winter tyre sceptics to post but the pro-winters posse have entered the picture and we've just descended into the same old debate. Ummm....

Not sure how this is any different from all the other winter tyre threads we have each year.

[Lady Elanore]

It's interesting how this thread was allegedly intended (or was it?) to be a place for the winter tyre sceptics to post but the pro-winters posse have entered the picture and we've just descended into the same old debate. Ummm....

Not sure how this is any different from all the other winter tyre threads we have each year.

 

 

I thought it was intended to be the other way around as the title was sarcastic Goes to show (something)

[Aspman]

When driving around the country side in my Train I have to put up with  metal wheels on metal rails, No winter tyres for me     :no:

 

surely they can supply you with all season metal wheels.