VW UK Action plan for EA 189 EU5 engines

[mitre]

A month ago, the reported fix for my 1.6ltr Skoda diesel, was going to be, four new injectors & a software update.

 

Now it appears, a blue plastic ice cream scoop & a remap, will resolve the emissions problem, without loss of performance or mpg hit!

 

That's a big difference in cost to VAG.  A cynical person might think ....... if it was that simple in the first place, why did they even bother with the cheat software?

[eyegr]

A cynical person might think ....... if it was that simple in the first place, why did they even bother with the cheat software?

   ^^

The million-dollar question

[skodanooob]

People make me laugh!!

Let's just for a minute ignore the fact the government have promised that affected cars won't be re-banded and therefor have to pay more tax.

And let's pretend that the sole reason you bought your Fabia was for the free road tax.

Do you really think it would be reasonable for Skoda to pay off the remaining balance of your finance!?

Or might it be slightly more reasonable for them to pay you and amount equivalent to the rise in tax every year?

Completely moot point as tax won't rise but the things people come away with sometimes are ridiculous.

My Octavia is 'affected' but do I care? Not in the slightest. It's given the fuel economy figures I expected of it so as far as I'm concerned the 'cheat' software has had no adverse effected on my ownership.

Would I refuse any compensation offered? Of course not, but if none is forthcoming I won't lose any sleep.

This. I bought a used car two days ago, knowing full well that there may be recalls. There's more to a car than the car tax, though on the plus side apparently mine's not even affected any way, so woop for me I guess

Edited 29 November, 2015 by skodanooob

[Clive smith]

I am not sure I understand the problem with the emissions scandal.

 

After watching the BBC Panorama program that tested the emissions, they had to keep the car at a set temperature then run it at a set speed without turning the steering or deviating in any way from a set testing method. Providing that the set method was used and all the conditions applied, the "cheat software" adjusted the engine to reduce the emissions.

I assume that this is the publicised emissions and where VW lied.

 

When I take my car into the MOT testing centre, the test conditions for my emissions are totally different so my car will not know to apply the "cheat" mode.

The readings I get from the testing centre must be within the limits or my car will fail.

 

I don't like being lied to, but I know it happens for instance I know that I will not get the MPG that the manufacturer tells me and I accept that.

 

So why should I care ? OK from an environmental point of view I should care, but given that probably the generation of energy used by each of us each day adds more to global warming / pollution than the difference between the fictional and real emissions. I am not sure what all the fuss is about.

 

I am not trying to be controversial and upset anyone, I would truly like to know from a practical / how it really affects me point of view, why should I care?.

[Breezy_Pete]

MOT testing doesn't/can't measure nitrogen oxides currently. So your car is never measured for emissions of these poisons.

One just like it will have done the EU test cycle, which we know to have been passed only with software which wasn't representative of that used in real world driving.

So every mile/km your car travels, it is poisoning people much more than the EU decreed to be acceptable.

 

Why should you care? Well, maybe you live in a rural area and hardly ever drive your car into a big city, in which case it's not a big deal.

If you live in, or commute into a big city though, and give a damn about the respiratory health of anyone that lives there, or your own while driving, you might want to research the toxicity of these gases a little. It's not a global warming issue.

[Clive smith]

MOT testing doesn't/can't measure nitrogen oxides currently. So your car is never measured for emissions of these poisons.

One just like it will have done the EU test cycle, which we know to have been passed only with software which wasn't representative of that used in real world driving.

So every mile/km your car travels, it is poisoning people much more than the EU decreed to be acceptable.

 

Why should you care? Well, maybe you live in a rural area and hardly ever drive your car into a big city, in which case it's not a big deal.

If you live in, or commute into a big city though, and give a damn about the respiratory health of anyone that lives there, or your own while driving, you might want to research the toxicity of these gases a little. It's not a global warming issue.

Ok, I understand about the problems that particles and toxins are, I used to live and work in London in the 50;s to 70's and I remember as a child the pea soup fogs, when pollution was more visible.

Do we know that the cars only passed because of the cheat software or were the results just lower than real life and they would have still have passed ?

Edited 29 November, 2015 by Clive smith

[Breezy_Pete]

If the cars would/could have passed without cheating, it would be very bizarre for VW to have used the cheat anyway.

I can't say with total confidence that VW didn't do something this odd, but the general gist I get is that when these (VW) cars are tested in near-to, but not identical conditions to the test cycles (so not invoking the cheat), they emit several times as much NOx as they do in exact test conditions. Precise definition of 'several' I can't offer.

Edited 29 November, 2015 by Wino

[Clive smith]

I don't know, I have not seen anything to say that the cars would not have passed without cheating, all they intend to do with the 2.0 models is to change the software, were the cars within the limits ?, but VW wanted people to think they were super clean, that would improve the sales. 

[Breezy_Pete]

Most people had never heard of NOx emissions before this all blew up, though; let alone chosen a car on the basis of its output of them.

Read the West Virginia University study if you want to get a flavour for how far beyond the limits US cars operate when out of cheat mode. Admittedly the EU limits aren't quite as tight, but still, I'd be amazed if any of the EU cars that VW admitted were cheating were capable of passing without. 

Edited 30 November, 2015 by Wino

[philbes]

I know two people who live on Jersey and have a Volkswagen (2.0TDi) and a Skoda (1.6TDi) that are effected by the 'cheat' software.  Neither has heard from VW or Skoda or the dealers.  Does anyone know whether the situation in Jersey different to in the UK?  The Jersey gov web-site just makes mention of knowledge of the VW emissions 'scandal' and advises owners to watch for announcements.

[giandougl]

What is the oldest dated vehicle (year) that is/could be affected?

[skodanooob]

What is the oldest dated vehicle (year) that is/could be affected?

2008 or 2009 isnt it?

[giandougl]

2008 or 2009 isnt it?

Thanks for your quick answer.

So with my old jalopy being 10 years old from 2005, I'm well within that margain..LOL

[Sullyman]

Hi I have been seeing US web stuff and they say that if you run a EA189 diesel without the defeat sw then the impact is 10% less MPG, and 10% less BHP and 10% less Torque.  So where does this leave me and all of us then?  Did I get what i paid for??

[Dr Zoidberg]

Hi I have been seeing US web stuff and they say that if you run a EA189 diesel without the defeat sw then the impact is 10% less MPG, and 10% less BHP and 10% less Torque.  So where does this leave me and all of us then?  Did I get what i paid for??

 

How do they know that, when there isn't anyone with a car with the software fix installed?

[Wardy]

Hi I have been seeing US web stuff and they say that if you run a EA189 diesel without the defeat sw then the impact is 10% less MPG, and 10% less BHP and 10% less Torque.  So where does this leave me and all of us then?  Did I get what i paid for??

 

How do they know that, when there isn't anyone with a car with the software fix installed?

 

Indeed. Pure speculation at this stage.

 

Sullyman - any links to the 'US web stuff' you've been reading?

[Sullyman]

So they took 2 US cars and did a 4 wheel rolling road then on the real road and discontected the rear wheel sensor so software thinks it is in test mode.  So they tested the cars with defeat sw only.  Good point is what will the "software" fix actually do??  We will have to wait and see I presume, but sure that US will get the fix first and no doubt we will see the same results for a "fixed" car and then judge!

[Sullyman]

Re US links, I was searching youtube and found several vids and web sites.  Take a look - I just searched "dieselgate"

[Wardy]

So they took 2 US cars and did a 4 wheel rolling road then on the real road and discontected the rear wheel sensor so software thinks it is in test mode.  So they tested the cars with defeat sw only.  Good point is what will the "software" fix actually do??  We will have to wait and see I presume, but sure that US will get the fix first and no doubt we will see the same results for a "fixed" car and then judge!

 

That's not running without the defeat software installed though. They've made no change to ECU mapping, have they?

 

And test mode is more complex than reading data from wheel sensors. There's also steering input to take into account.

[Sullyman]

Understand this but the release I have read in Autocar says that the fix simply turns off the defeat device.  No mention of any other changes to mapping?!  So what the effect be on a car!!  The US tests show what a car does when the defeat device is not is use - is that what the fix will do!  May have to wait and see, but I think MPG, BHP will be effected in some way!!      

[Wardy]

"Simply turns off the defeat device" - they make it sound so straightforward....

 

All will be seen in good time. There is, of course, the option to leave your vehicle alone.

[Sullyman]

Well that is what the article says not me.  Let's wait and see.  But I certainly did not buy the car to pollute up to 40 times re NOx!  I nearly bought a BMW - maybe I should have!

[pipmurray]

Might find this interesting...

2 December 2015

An update on the claims against the Volkswagen Group

Dear richard

We write to update you about the latest developments in this case.

It is being reported that the German motor authority, KBA, has approved fixes for more than 90% of the affected vehicles. The current indication is that models with 1.2l and 2.0l engines will begin to be recalled in the first half of 2016. It is also being reported that the repair for the 1.6l engine is less complex than initially suspected with these cars needing "relatively simple changes" to the air-filter system, according to the CEO of Volkswagen Mathias Mueller. Nevertheless, the likelihood is that the recall for 1.6l vehicles is unlikely to commence until late 2016.

We have written to Volkswagen’s solicitors and asked them to confirm full details of the fixes and will update you once we have received a response.

In our last update we mentioned that a goodwill voucher scheme was being introduced in the US and that we were awaiting confirmation of whether a similar scheme would be introduced in the UK. Based on recent media reports it seems that Volkswagen will not be introducing a compensation scheme here in the UK. As a result we believe these claims will need to be litigated and we are now taking steps to move ahead with those claims where vehicles have already been sold for less than their “pre-scandal” value.

We have previously asked individuals who have sold their affected vehicle since the scandal to provide us with details of any loss they have sustained. Based on our initial analysis of this data, it appears that these owners have sustained an average loss of around £1,600. We are in the process of obtaining expert evidence to verify our analysis.

If you have sold your vehicle for a loss since the scandal broke and have not already provided us with details, please contact us now so that we can include you as part of this group.

For those of you who still own your vehicle, your losses can only be fully quantified once we are able to assess the impact of the fix on your vehicle’s performance. This means that in addition to bringing a claim for a loss in the value of your vehicle, you will also be able to claim for any increased running costs which may arise after the fix.

We believe that it will be necessary to have vehicles independently tested pre and post fix in order for the performance impact to be accurately assessed and we have approached experts to discuss how to go about doing this once the fixes begin to be rolled out in the New Year.

We have also written to the Chair of the Transport Select Committee, Louise Ellman MP, and invited her to meet with us to ensure that UK based vehicle owners are properly compensated for their losses.

If you have registered your details with us but have not as yet provided full details of your vehicle, please do so by filling in the form available at the link below: https://www.leighday.co.uk/forms/VW-Claimslong.

Please note that completing this form does not mean that you are formally instructing us to act on your behalf in this matter and no obligation to meet our costs arises at this stage. Once we are in a position to take claims forward, we will provide full details of our proposed funding arrangements.

To read our earlier updates please visit the Leigh Day website here.

Finally, you are receiving this email as you have previously registered your interest with us. If you do not wish to receive further updates please let us know.

We are receiving a number of enquiries from the media regarding the potential legal cases. If you would be interested in talking to the media about this issue please contact our Head of Media Relations, David Standard, by emailing him here.

To get in touch with us about the campaign call 0800 689 4049 or email: [email protected]

cid:[email protected]

Bozena Michalowska-Howells

Partner

Consumer Law and Product Safety group

[Ootohere]

An Average loss of £1,600 !

(Averages require highs and lows obviously.)

 

It would be very interesting indeed to see the numbers of 'Owners' of cars, ones they Own and have sold or traded in over the past 2 months.

Not Leased vehicles returned at the end or before the end of lease and going to Auction etc.

 

Owners of Volkswagen Group Cars in the UK that are Euro 5 TDI 2009-2014 that are Affected by the Defeat Device or just be Association 

that had a Value that went down by over an Extra £1,600 between September and October not only because they went out of Warranty or the likes.

Or were people 'Looking' at what they might get if the Sold / Traded in, and never actually did it.

[seboni121]

Well son has just traded in his 2.0 golf for an Octavia in Dundee George don't think there was a lot of difference