ezero1 device (CGON)

[CWARD]

@Gibx33 You can believe but I prefer facts and figures. They have done their testing and advertised on the back of it, which got them in trouble with advertising standards as it was very flawed and certainly not independent nor scientific so couldn't be relied on.

 

If you prefer to believe before proof then buy one on my golden egg laying hens for £459

Edited 17 January, 2018 by CWARD

[Welsh_kai_boy]

Until we can determine if there is any personal gain here from a commercial perspective I have hidden a number of posts and locked the thread.

 

@Gibx33 & @Tpacs Please do not post any more information on this product until you can show @ColinD you have no commercial involvement or gain.

 

Do not start any more topics on this device until @ColinD is happy.

 

Edited 17 January, 2018 by Welsh_kai_boy

[ColinD]

I'm happy... to let it run with a healthy set of eyeballs on the community guidelines which in cases like this need to be read a few times by all.

 

How about I fund one @ trade to someones car we know and wants it...

 

If it works then that person can if they wish contribute back with facts figures, heck even the amazing savings you've made after a few months.

 

We do a proper couple of tanks assessment before hand etc, all the 'science' stuff, we publish, good or bad.

 

The only problem I forsee is the 'change' effect, because something has changed you will change your approach to driving. New loud exhaust, you play with it more etc... so of course it makes the car faster right

 

Perhaps a placebo and a real unit test.. if thats even possible.

 

To let the discussion on me buying a golden egg continue I'm happy to unlock, if we keep it factual and not too blair witch trials esq, that is we treat all as we want to be treated and know we're not all half a turbo short of an encabulator.

 

 

[ColinD]

Posts from @Tpacs are at the moment hidden as requested and as he's a fitter, right or wrong the bias wasn't declared initially; this didn't help acceptance of review. ( and a few others )

 

New none skoda owners who are new to the site, only posting here,  extolling this products virtues.. Expect a grilling beyond that of normal magic bean pitches... For many this isn't there first rodeo, but welcome, keep it factual, disclose what you need to and enjoy being apart of the community, but don't take the Michael.

[Titanium_Man]

I live in Bristol, have 7 years of full and proper fuel usage data and am happy to be a guinea pig to test these claims of improved fuel economy 

[Breezy_Pete]

I was gonna suggest Awaoffski if he had a vehicle he was willing to put one on, but we already have a volunteer ^

 

I briefly thought about putting one on the missus's car without telling her, to get a truly impartial mpg comparison (we have records for every tank for nearly six years), but I can't bring myself to molest her car for this.  Edit: As a modification, presumably CGON encourage adopters to inform their insurance company????

 

Edited 17 January, 2018 by Wino

[burntcrisps2]

Just an update on my cars and cgon unit.

I have had a cgon unit fitted today to our old Ford Focus 1.8 tdci Zetec which we have owned from new.

It is 15 years old, has done 118K miles and had an egr blanking plate fitted 6 years ago.

It is of an age that it does not have a dpf fitted but does have a cat and it is the original exhaust system as fitted at the factory.

Car was manufactured in Saarlouis, Germany,  delivered November 2002

It's been a solid and reliable car that does over 50mpg average.

 

It was fitted at a local tuning company in Banbury (Angel Tuning) who have just become installers.

One of the them was having their own vehicle fitted today (big V6 Audi) which regular does runs to Germany and back.

 

As they are primarily a tuning remapping outfit they do not have MOT emissions testing (which is a shame as I wanted to see some before and after info).

I have some basic pics of the install which I have attached fyi.

Best place for this fitment was beneath the battery tray as surprisingly little space in this older engine bay.

Really neat install, with everything hidden and neatly and professionally done.

Some customers like it this way, other want it visible apparently.

If it gets transferred to another vehicle, then blanking plugs are supplied to bung the hole just after the maf sensor in the inlet pipe.

A wire is connected to the map sensor as part of the install. Used for info on engine running etc.

 

There is an app available (actually unreleased) that the installers and customers can use.

Currently only android, ios very soon.

Some screenshots showing much of the info available on the install screens... on the google play store here...

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.companyname.CGON3__0_Mobile&hl=en

 

 

I don’t have any real test data to share at present other than I took it for a test drive after fitment.

It does seem to be more responsive and pull more when accelerating hard. That’s subjective of course, but it did seem better through the gears compared to the drive into the fitment facility.

What I do have is the full history of the vehicle, including all data giving actual mpg of this vehicle since day one.

It averages over 50mpg, so will be able to comment in the future on changes to that.

 

Any diesel of this age and mileage and no dpf will show plumes of soot on hard acceleration.

I did this hard acceleration multiple times and could see no evidence of any sooty exhaust in the rear view mirror and being a nice sunny day it would have been easy to see, as it usually is!

 

I will try this again with the unit turned off and then on and compare on a longer test run.

 

I expect to be able to progress soon with our fixed Yeti ea189 once cgon have done a case study.

I have been logging dpf regen info via the vag dpf app and I also not surprisingly, have all the mpg data for this vehicle from new.

They have invested around half a million in a PEMS and hub-dyno setup and that is significant as there are very few in this county, only places like Millbrook etc. so it should be interesting to see the case study.

 

[tubbyleigh]

Perhaps you could ask cgon directly if they might fit one to someone’s car for free. Also draw their attention to this rather long discussion. 

[Gibx33]

I think they are business not a charity...lol

[Gibx33]

1 hour ago, Wino said:

presumably CGON encourage adopters to inform their insurance company????

I told my insurance company no increased premiums.. but I have heard some May charge £15-20

[Gibx33]

7 hours ago, CWARD said:

@Gibx33 You can believe but I prefer facts and figures. They have done their testing and advertised on the back of it, which got them in trouble with advertising standards as it was very flawed and certainly not independent nor scientific so couldn't be relied on.

 

If you prefer to believe before proof then buy one on my golden egg laying hens for £459

Aren't the ASA non regulated private company for profits? You can see very very big companies on the ASA website as well..

[Breezy_Pete]

11 minutes ago, Gibx33 said:

I told my insurance company no increased premiums.. but I have heard some May charge £15-20

Thanks, but that doesn't quite answer my question. Do CGON advise people who have this fitted to tell their insurance company? It may be on their website I guess, but with first-hand experience you could save me looking.

[Gibx33]

Well looks like fuel prices are on the up...20% off a litre for meeee...

[Gibx33]

4 minutes ago, Wino said:

Thanks, but that doesn't quite answer my question. Do CGON advise people who have this fitted to tell their insurance company? It may be on their website I guess, but with first-hand experience you could save me looking.

Here is a pic from there site..

[Breezy_Pete]

Thanks, presumably your installer referred to this or reminded you in case you hadn't seen it? Who was your installer again?

Interesting that it doesn't affect speed. You'd think that if it was getting 20% more energy out of the fuel it would, or could??

Edited 17 January, 2018 by Wino

[Gibx33]

Really depends on how hard you press the accelerator I suppose. I did some investigations before I leaped. I know that some people can see between 10-25% in fuel savings, but it is nice to know that I am doing my bit for the ever worsening environment we live in.

 

oh by the way I scoped the MAF wire no signal coming from there...totally passive. I will have look for the receipt it's in the car..

[Ootohere]

Gibx33, did you say yesterday that you have it on your Subaru with LPG.

Are you running this while running on LPG?

[Gibx33]

I can switch it over so yes LPG most of the time..

[Ootohere]

Good stuff, 108 octane with the LPG.

& is the miles to the litre on LPG improved by 20% as well?

[chimaera]

3 hours ago, ColinD said:

Posts from @Tpacs are at the moment hidden as requested and as he's a fitter, right or wrong the bias wasn't declared initially; this didn't help acceptance of review. ( and a few others )

 

New none skoda owners who are new to the site, only posting here,  extolling this products virtues.. Expect a grilling beyond that of normal magic bean pitches... For many this isn't there first rodeo, but welcome, keep it factual, disclose what you need to and enjoy being apart of the community, but don't take the Michael.

The only reliable way to test its capabilities is to have it installed on an engine testbed in a laboratory. In a vehicle application, there are too many variables outside the driver's control to be able to robustly asses any difference it might be making.

 

The protocol would need to be something like the following:

1. Fit the gas generator to the engine, using a changeover valve on the gas connection to the intake tract so that the engine can be run on its normal fuel supply only, or on the fuel supply plus gas supply from the generator. Ensure the gas connection to the intake will not affect air flow into the engine: fitting the gas connection well upstream of the intake manifold should ensure this.

2. Configure the generator to run at its maximum possible output: if it makes no detectable contribution to the engine's operation at this level then it won't at lower levels.

3. Fit a suitable flow meter to the gas line so that the flow rate of the gas supply can be measured during the test.

4. FOR SAFETY ENSURE THAT THE AREA IS WELL VENTILATED! A mixture of hydrogen and oxygen is extremely flammable and care should be taken to prevent buildup in the lab. The vent line from the gas supply should be routed as directly as possible to the outside of the building. Do not use the exhaust extractor system to ventilate it as the heat could cause ignition.

5. Run the engine up to normal operating temperature on its regular fuel supply. Confirm that all temperatures are stable.

6. Determine maximum power and torque output at a number of engine speeds, e.g. 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500 rpm

7. For each speed level in step 6, measure the fuel consumption: on a fixed testbed this is straightforward by measuring fuel draw from the tank. You will be getting a measurement in L/s.

8. For each speed level in step 6, measure the emissions profile - at the very least CO, CO2, HC and smoke opacity, NOx if the lab has the equipment available to do it.

9. For each speed level in step 6, measure the exhaust gas temperature at the exhaust manifold; if possible measure the peak cylinder temperature and pressure also.

10. At all times during steps 6-9 monitor and record engine coolant and oil temperature; if possible the cooling system should be configured to maintain coolant temperature at a constant value.

11. Remove the load from the engine and let it return to idle. Repeat steps 6-10 twice more on the regular fuel supply. During this work, confirm that the gas generator is functioning and record the flow rate of gas. Take samples of the gas from the generator periodically and have them analysed for content by suitable analytical chemistry techniques.

12. Remove the load from the engine and let it return to idle. Change over the gas supply from the generator so that it is now running into the engine. Allow the engine to stabilise on this supply.

13. Repeat steps 6-11 with the gas supply connected to the intake.

14. Process the data and report as follows:

(i) Table of engine performance data with and without gas supply: power, torque, fuel consumption, peak cylinder pressure for each speed tested; gas generation rate should be reported in this table also

(ii) Table of engine temperatures with and without gas supply at each speed: coolant, exhaust manifold, cylinder peak

(iii) Table of emissions readings with and without gas supply at each speed

(iv) Composition data for the samples taken from the gas generator

(v) Graphs of the parameters in tables (i)-(iii) including uncertainty limits for each data point

(vi) For each of the tables (i)-(iii) percentage changes in the measured parameters (if any); alongside this, uncertainty calculations for all measured parameters

 

If the changes in operating parameters are smaller than the uncertainty associated with the measurements, the result is that there's no change as a result of the fitment of the device.

 

I would volunteer to do this testing but the university I work at has decommissioned its engine lab so I don't have access to the facilities needed any more.

[Gibx33]

Yea tank mileage 328 went to 396..

[Gibx33]

8 minutes ago, chimaera said:

The only reliable way to test its capabilities is to have it installed on an engine testbed in a laboratory. In a vehicle application, there are too many variables outside the driver's control to be able to robustly asses any difference it might be making.

 

The protocol would need to be something like the following:

1. Fit the gas generator to the engine, using a changeover valve on the gas connection to the intake tract so that the engine can be run on its normal fuel supply only, or on the fuel supply plus gas supply from the generator. Ensure the gas connection to the intake will not affect air flow into the engine: fitting the gas connection well upstream of the intake manifold should ensure this.

2. Configure the generator to run at its maximum possible output: if it makes no detectable contribution to the engine's operation at this level then it won't at lower levels.

3. Fit a suitable flow meter to the gas line so that the flow rate of the gas supply can be measured during the test.

4. FOR SAFETY ENSURE THAT THE AREA IS WELL VENTILATED! A mixture of hydrogen and oxygen is extremely flammable and care should be taken to prevent buildup in the lab. The vent line from the gas supply should be routed as directly as possible to the outside of the building. Do not use the exhaust extractor system to ventilate it as the heat could cause ignition.

5. Run the engine up to normal operating temperature on its regular fuel supply. Confirm that all temperatures are stable.

6. Determine maximum power and torque output at a number of engine speeds, e.g. 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500 rpm

7. For each speed level in step 6, measure the fuel consumption: on a fixed testbed this is straightforward by measuring fuel draw from the tank. You will be getting a measurement in L/s.

8. For each speed level in step 6, measure the emissions profile - at the very least CO, CO2, HC and smoke opacity, NOx if the lab has the equipment available to do it.

9. For each speed level in step 6, measure the exhaust gas temperature at the exhaust manifold; if possible measure the peak cylinder temperature and pressure also.

10. At all times during steps 6-9 monitor and record engine coolant and oil temperature; if possible the cooling system should be configured to maintain coolant temperature at a constant value.

11. Remove the load from the engine and let it return to idle. Repeat steps 6-10 twice more on the regular fuel supply. During this work, confirm that the gas generator is functioning and record the flow rate of gas. Take samples of the gas from the generator periodically and have them analysed for content by suitable analytical chemistry techniques.

12. Remove the load from the engine and let it return to idle. Change over the gas supply from the generator so that it is now running into the engine. Allow the engine to stabilise on this supply.

13. Repeat steps 6-11 with the gas supply connected to the intake.

14. Process the data and report as follows:

(i) Table of engine performance data with and without gas supply: power, torque, fuel consumption, peak cylinder pressure for each speed tested; gas generation rate should be reported in this table also

(ii) Table of engine temperatures with and without gas supply at each speed: coolant, exhaust manifold, cylinder peak

(iii) Table of emissions readings with and without gas supply at each speed

(iv) Composition data for the samples taken from the gas generator

(v) Graphs of the parameters in tables (i)-(iii) including uncertainty limits for each data point

(vi) For each of the tables (i)-(iii) percentage changes in the measured parameters (if any); alongside this, uncertainty calculations for all measured parameters

 

If the changes in operating parameters are smaller than the uncertainty associated with the measurements, the result is that there's no change as a result of the fitment of the device.

 

I would volunteer to do this testing but the university I work at has decommissioned its engine lab so I don't have access to the facilities needed any more.

Looks expensive..  VW should have taken a leaf out of your book...

[Ootohere]

?

How many litres of LPG is that you use to do near 400 miles?

[Gibx33]

The end of the day I now my vehicle.. as you probably no yours.. you know when there is a difference.

[Ootohere]

At the end of they day i ran enough vehicles on LPG, so just asking.

 

Taking a figure and adding 20% as in 328 to 393.6 or even 396 is dead easy, nice round figures.

Edited 17 January, 2018 by AwaoffSki