Diesel software update

[Wayfarer]

Soon after the Nox scandal broke I received two letters, one from Skoda and the other from my local friendly dealer, explaining that my car was one affected but was safe to drive. It also stated a software fix would be undertaken during the first quarter 2016.

Mid March I messaged Skoda asking for revised timing. No reply! Yesterday received a new Skoda missive which implies they have not yet got a fix. Presumably the issue is more complicated than first thought or maybe the authorities are being more strict. Anyway I am no further forward in getting my car fixed. Not very happy about this.

[josj]

Are you sure you want them to "fix" it?

[KenONeill]

There's nothing wrong with your car, except that it performs differently in artificial testing regimes from how it does on the road.

[philbes]

The letter I received says that the "IAM" is for the software change to make no difference to engine power, fuel consumption or performance data already published. Software updates are to be scheduled across the remainder of 2016. The letter refers to the software change as a "Service Action".

[psycholist]

Until I see data from a rolling road, fuel consumption and driveability test before and after this change I wouldn't be in any rush to get this done. My engine map has already been professionally updated by 30 ish bhp, so I'm specifically refusing this anyway . The worry is that in order to meet the claimed emissions without the software specifically being able to cheat they'll have to ruin the power output or economy of the engine for all driving conditions rather than just test conditions. While VW claim that performance and economy will not be affected, if they could make the engines pass emissions testing while delivering the power and economy people buy the cars for without cheating then they wouldn't have added the cheat in the first place.

Edited 6 April, 2016 by psycholist

[chimaera]

I was downloading data from Erwin yesterday and the service bulletin is out for the EA189 fix. It's dated 21/03/2016. It's referred to as "Field Campaign 23R6 2043213/4".

 

The only details in it are that 2.0 engines will receive a software update while 1.6 engines will get a software update plus a flow rectifier in the intake. Rollout seems to be slated for June onwards.

 

They're offering owners with a remap an opt-out in countries where having the car updated is a legal obligation.

 

They're offering a "vehicle check and gift" to customers who have the work done. The gift is a cosmetic care pack - I'm guessing polishes and waxes, etc.

 

The only statement I can find about the impact on performance relates to CO2 emissions, in the context of taxation status: they 'believe' that this won't be affected. Given that the CO2 rating is established during the NEDC test I'd expect it to be unaffected.

 

I'm curious to see what effect it will have on the road. Given that I'm in a country without a legal obligation to adopt the update I'll wait and see before I decide whether or not to get it done. I won't be too surprised if the update ends up going through one or two revisions after the initial release.

[MikeH01]

Like many Superb owners I have had changes made to my software e.g. Hill Hold Control actived etc, will this software update disable these? If so I'll not be rushing to get it done!

[chimaera]

Like many Superb owners I have had changes made to my software e.g. Hill Hold Control actived etc, will this software update disable these? If so I'll not be rushing to get it done!

That's a configuration change rather than a software update. It's also on a different controller (ABS controller): this update is specifically for the engine ECU.

[terrytowelling]

I'm not having mine done, mine don't need mot's yet for another year

[Tech1e]

I'm not having mine done, mine don't need mot's yet for another year

They wouldn't be concerned about it on an MOT anyway.

[Bartatman]

As a company car driver I'm a bit stuck as the fix is required by my employer regardless of what I may like to do. In addition, not to have the fix carried out would no doubt influence my personal tax liability as a consequence of running a dirtier car. What a mess this is for all and a car cleaning kit is of little compensation.

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[chimaera]

As a company car driver I'm a bit stuck as the fix is required by my employer regardless of what I may like to do. In addition, not to have the fix carried out would no doubt influence my personal tax liability as a consequence of running a dirtier car. What a mess this is for all and a car cleaning kit is of little compensation.

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As I pointed out earlier, they're claiming the fix won't affect CO2 ratings, which I'm guessing your tax liability is based on.

[Bartatman]

As I pointed out earlier, they're claiming the fix won't affect CO2 ratings, which I'm guessing your tax liability is based on.

Let's hope they're right in everything they say. Can't see it though. As expressed earlier, why "cheat" at all if a simple software update is all that was required. Things don't add up here.

[Ootohere]

No, 'Fix' is yet approved for the EU, as now Independent Testing is being done on it'. 

 

So VW are a bit premature with 'The Fix' which is now being delayed.

Even in Australia where it was supposed to begin on the Amarok.

 

What will be will be, and if you have a Lease car or van or Pickup then it is not unreasonable that it has to get done if someone else owns it.

But if fuel consumption increases or it can not tow the weights you require because of loss of performance then VW or someone else will need to compensate those that bought or run the vehicles.

[williamshatnerspants]

As a company car driver I'm a bit stuck as the fix is required by my employer regardless of what I may like to do. In addition, not to have the fix carried out would no doubt influence my personal tax liability as a consequence of running a dirtier car. What a mess this is for all and a car cleaning kit is of little compensation.

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Thats a bugger..... we all await your feedback if you get the update done!!

[s55shh]

My problem is that I'm holding off a remap until after the recall is done. 

[Ootohere]

Why do that as any remap voids the manufacturers warranty on the engine anyway?

[terrytowelling]

They won't know there's a remap unless ofc you're daft enough to tell them.

What do you do if as I suspect happens the car's performance is affected ?

[linni]

They won't know there's a remap unless ofc you're daft enough to tell them.

 

 

Any ECU flash wil leave a mark in ECU`s memory. So, they will know, if they want to.

[Ootohere]

If you are making a Warranty Claim on the Engine and the car has had 'The Fix', then not only will VW be likely to doing a search of the ECU but most owners would want that as well, maybe even other relevant authorities.

As it is it looks like 'The Fix' is not only increasing Fuel used but also Emissions.  Hence 'The Fix' must be on hold, ie Not Approved.

 

If you get a Remap and have a Warranty Claim, as it is you are sometimes asked to sign a declaration to say the Vehicle 

has no 'Non Factory Approved Engine Management'.

 

A bit of a joke really since VW are trying to say the Defeat Device is non VW Approved, Rogue Employees......

[Adenuf]

I got a long winded rambling techie type  letter off them last week.

Don't really give a stuff about it all tbh, as engine wise it's running just fine.

 

By the time they've finished faffing around, I reckon it'll be nearly time to get shut anyway!

 

Tell me. Are new cars now available already sorted from the factory?

Edited 11 April, 2016 by Adenuf

[Adenuf]

I got a long winded rambling techie type  letter off them last week.

Don't really give a stuff about it all tbh, as engine wise it's running just fine.

 

By the time they've finished faffing around, I reckon it'll be nearly time to get shut anyway!

 

Tell me. Are new cars now available already sorted from the factory?

.........just hope I don't miss out on the thousands of £'s compo...... or bottle of Skoda polish......we'll all no doubt be in receipt of  if I get shut too early! 

Edited 11 April, 2016 by Adenuf

[chimaera]

If you are making a Warranty Claim on the Engine and the car has had 'The Fix', then not only will VW be likely to doing a search of the ECU but most owners would want that as well, maybe even other relevant authorities.

As it is it looks like 'The Fix' is not only increasing Fuel used but also Emissions.  Hence 'The Fix' must be on hold, ie Not Approved.

Where are you getting your information that the fix will increase emissions?

 

For clarity the 'defeat device' puts the engine in an emissions compliant mode when it detects that it is on a rolling road undergoing the official NEDC drive cycle. It is during this cycle that all the official figures are determined (economy, CO2 emissions, etc). It is emissions compliant in this mode.

 

When it switches out of this mode, the emissions go outside of specification, especially NOx. So the fix must make it operate in a compliant mode at all times meaning it can't increase emissions. What's not clear is whether they can achieve compliance without impacting economy or performance.

A further complication is that there are a few different emissions control setups fitted to these engines depending on brand and model. The main issue here is whether or not SCR is fitted (the adblue system). On SCR cars, the fix should be to turn up adblue dosing a bit and make sure it's on all the time.

 

The pre-facelift (and possibly post-facelift) Superb II 2.0 TDI doesn't have SCR so it's not clear what they can do to improve emissions compliance here. Fundamentally there are two ways to improve emissions: 1. make less of them; 2. make them go away once they've been made.

 

Route 1 means using less fuel and running gentler combustion conditions, giving less power. An alternative route 1 involves much more highly refined fuels, but I don't see anyone wanting to pay €2-3 per litre for diesel.

 

Route 2 means removing or mitigating the pollutants as they leave the engine. As it is, the DPF removes some NOx: since NOx is an oxidiser it can burn off the soot in a passive regen. But that's probably not enough to capture all the NOx generated at high load. I don't think SCR retrofit is on the cards. I need to do some more reading on the issue before I could say what other options remain here.

[chimaera]

Meant to post this too, a video from CCC earlier this year from two guys who looked into what's actually going on with this issue: https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7331-the_exhaust_emissions_scandal_dieselgate

 

The technical work was done on an SCR equipped car, but it's still instructive to see how the emissions mode changed.

[Ootohere]

Re post #23.

I never said 'The Fix' will increase the Emissions,  *Read the Quote you posted.*

i am going on what i read that the Fix is not approved because it may have been increasing emissions and fuel consumption. 

Why now Independent testers are doing the testing because VW results can not be trusted.

 

So where are they with the fix on the VW Amarok in Australia ?.

No place,  on hold.   

Where is the Authorities Approval to continue the Fix on the 2.0 TDI in Germany ?,  On Hold, no agreement.

 

What VW are trying to do is have cars without Defeat Devices pass the EU Testing with the figures that gave for the original EU testing, they can not even manage that.

If you are looking at real world road driving, the EU Tests and roads were never accurate anyway.

Nobody drives to work on a rolling road in a temperature controlled building.

http://skoda.co.uk/fuel-consumption-statement

Edited 11 April, 2016 by GoneOffSKi