Diesel days are numbered according to Renault, Peugeot & VW

[Paul007]

It's the Daily Fail....it'll not come to anything.

[Fab Estate]

We were told a month or two ago that if Hinkley Point power station wasn't ordered soon then there would be power cuts during the winter in a few years time, so why the big push for battery power which will only increase the problem?

[mac11irl]

FTFY

Not gonna say it doesnt happen, but tbf the customs bois do be on the prowl a fair bit dipping tanks..

The one time they stopped me i nearly asked the guy to out it back in after he was finished - i was running on 0miles range to fuel station i was even surprised he managed to get anything out of the tank..

[lol-lol]

Not gonna say it doesnt happen, but tbf the customs bois do be on the prowl a fair bit dipping tanks..

The one time they stopped me i nearly asked the guy to out it back in after he was finished - i was running on 0miles range to fuel station i was even surprised he managed to get anything out of the tank..

 

Done some time with the Road Fuel Testing Unit in the UK going round markets dipping farmer vehicle tanks.

 

Seize the vehicle if we like.  Great to see their face when you do this.  Tracer can stay in the fuel for weeks even after several refills of clean fuel.

 

Green in Ireland, Red in UK, Orange in Holland if I recall etc.  

[KenONeill]

If the actual car meets the initial reports, and it should in the spec is as published, the GM Bolt should fill the criteria of a doubling of range over most cars and relatively reasonable price.

 

"estimated" range up to 200 miles - So "200 miles if you don't need lights or heater, and keep to 55mph"

"$30_000 after government grant" - So ~£30_000 in the UK

Oh and "I don't want to get Daewoo on me" ;-)

[Aspman]

"estimated" range up to 200 miles - So "200 miles if you don't need lights or heater, and keep to 55mph"

"$30_000 after government grant" - So ~£30_000 in the UK

Oh and "I don't want to get Daewoo on me" ;-)

 

Or in a head wind, on the flat, no demisters or heated screens, radio off, no passengers and the driver isn't a fat ******.

 

I'd like to see a 'real world test' of an electric vehicle doing the miles in rural Perthshire in January with a couple of tubby farmers in the car.

[Ootohere]

& sheep in the back.

 

 

Doh, 

i meant Sheep Dogs in the back.

Edited 9 September, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[Aspman]

& sheep in the back.

 

 

Doh, 

i meant Sheep Dogs in the back.

 

No you didn't

 

[lol-lol]

Or in a head wind, on the flat, no demisters or heated screens, radio off, no passengers and the driver isn't a fat ******.

 

I'd like to see a 'real world test' of an electric vehicle doing the miles in rural Perthshire in January with a couple of tubby farmers in the car.

 

We know Lithium Ion batteries are less and less effective when the temperature drops.

 

Of course part of the way round that is to have the car plugged in to the power supply and then you get it to wake up (you can do this on a smart phone app, about quarter of an hour before you drive) and then the vehicle is toastie when you get in it to drive.  The warming of the car innards help the batteries function better of course.

 

Driving the e-vehicle efficiently requires a different mindset to internal combustion engine vehicles.  Some owners have got 10 or 20% more than the estimated range.  It is just the same as petrol and wiesel engined cars there are way to optimise get the best out of the vehicle. I think I would probably like to have both an EV and an IC engined vehicle and choose the horse for the course depending on the journey and time of year invisaged that way one good make the best use of cheap electricity and cheaper fuel when available.

 

In the cars we make we use LMP tech rather than Lithium-ion which have some advantages.  Our cars do 250 Km range already and operate in some fairly cool cities ie Paris, Indianapolis and coming to London....

 

[YellowCar]

Possibly a daft question, sorry if it is...How do we dispose of these batteries when the time comes?

I suspect the batteries will outlast most parts on the car, but when the perishables fall to bits on all these cars and they get broken on e-car forums....what then?

[mac11irl]

Possibly a daft question, sorry if it is...How do we dispose of these batteries when the time comes?

I suspect the batteries will outlast most parts on the car, but when the perishables fall to bits on all these cars and they get broken on e-car forums....what then?

Its easy dispose of them - same as ships and tankers.

sell them to a company in Bangladesh where kids will strip them down with rudimentary tool kits and 0 H&S or environmental concerns...

Google them ship breaker yards.. where they literally ram them as far on to the beach as theyll go and then just torch cut them imto chunks.. so many levels of horrendousness, ive only seen similar in reports from them sulphur mines on active volcanoes.. :no: :no:

[YellowCar]

Its easy dispose of them - same as ships and tankers.

sell them to a company in Bangladesh where kids will strip them down with rudimentary tool kits and 0 H&S or environmental concerns...

Google them ship breaker yards.. where they literally ram them as far on to the beach as theyll go and then just torch cut them imto chunks.. so many levels of horrendousness, ive only seen similar in reports from them sulphur mines on active volcanoes.. :no: :no:

Thanks for answering, I'm even more worried now though. That's some serious ****. I've seen some stuff on those ship yards, it is pretty horrendous. Not the kind of thing I'm particularly happy to contribute to, even though the work they do down there helps put a meal on their tables...I despair of this world at times.

[SurreyJohn]

The problems with EV in the UK at least is not just the source of energy needed to charge them up, its the lack of energy.

 

Power generation in the UK is on the verge of not having enough to meet current demand, let alone EV users plugging in their cars overnight. If enough EV's are sold I can see brown outs or total failures in some parts of the UK as supply is not able to keep up with demand.

The lack of electricity generation is real

Even Transport for London doesn't have a target of more than 300 electric buses (out of a fleet of 9000), because the power supply infrastructure couldn't cope with charging more than 300 (even when charged in middle of night), without installing major new cables and substations.

If London can't manage 4% of its fleet as electric, then could we really have millions of electric cars plugged in.

Small petrol cars will be here for the 2020s

[skomaz]

We know Lithium Ion batteries are less and less effective when the temperature drops.

 

Of course part of the way round that is to have the car plugged in to the power supply and then you get it to wake up (you can do this on a smart phone app, about quarter of an hour before you drive) and then the vehicle is toastie when you get in it to drive.  The warming of the car innards help the batteries function better of course.

 

Driving the e-vehicle efficiently requires a different mindset to internal combustion engine vehicles.  Some owners have got 10 or 20% more than the estimated range.  It is just the same as petrol and wiesel Diesel engined cars there are way to optimise get the best out of the vehicle. I think I would probably like to have both an EV and an IC engined vehicle and choose the horse for the course depending on the journey and time of year invisaged that way one good make the best use of cheap electricity and cheaper fuel when available.

 

In the cars we make we use LMP tech rather than Lithium-ion which have some advantages.  Our cars do 250 Km range already and operate in some fairly cool cities ie Paris, Indianapolis and coming to London....

 

 

Fixed the Diesel spelling for you  

 

Oh and by the way what cars you make??   I thought you worked for a large international logistics company???

 

Or did you just do the usual cut and paste from something elsewhere? 

Edited 9 September, 2016 by skomaz

[lol-lol]

Fixed the Diesel spelling for you         Oh and by the way what cars you make??   I thought you worked for a large international logistics company???   Or did you just do the usual cut and paste from something elsewhere? 

 

BlueSolutions, it is in the film.  All part of the Bolloré company.  As part of the group we do their logistics of course, as we do logistics for Renault but also for British car companies as well.  I would love to get hold of one of these as it has enough range to get me from Worcester to LHR etc but it is really just for the hire market and they use powerful 3-phase chargers rather than the home Chameleon ones Renault use and British Gas install. Nice people in the BlueSolutions team but the rollout in London is much harder than Paris due to the fragmented nature of London Boroughs compared to the unitary Paris authority.  

Edited 9 September, 2016 by lol-lol

[lol-lol]

The lack of electricity generation is real

Even Transport for London doesn't have a target of more than 300 electric buses (out of a fleet of 9000), because the power supply infrastructure couldn't cope with charging more than 300 (even when charged in middle of night), without installing major new cables and substations.

If London can't manage 4% of its fleet as electric, then could we really have millions of electric cars plugged in.

Small petrol cars will be here for the 2020s

 

There was a lady on the radio, Radio 4 and 5 live I think, thought she might have been Ofgen but perhaps was the organisation mentioned below in the FT, reckoning that we did not even need Hinckley C if we were smart with generation and storage.  Certainly I seem to see my electricity bills go lower and lower as I re-engineer my home lighting and the weather seems to get warmer and warmer.  As long as the Gulf Stream doe not turn off I expect we will be fine with a mixture of gas, solar and wind generation and hydro-electric and other electrical storage solutions Tesla and others are rolling out.   

 

Can Britain keep the lights on without Hinkley Point?

Cancelling project would require tapping other sources for 3.2GW of power

https://www.ft.com/content/d90cf01a-732c-11e6-bf48-b372cdb1043a

 

The proposed Hinkley Point C nuclear power station © PA

SEPTEMBER 6, 2016  

by: Andrew Ward, Energy Editor

Of all the thorny questions facing Theresa May in her review of the Hinkley Point nuclear power project, one dominates the rest: could Britain keep the lights on without it?  If Hinkley is indispensable, scrapping the proposed power station in Somerset would leave the UK facing an energy crisis. If not, the prime minister has more freedom to address her concerns over costs and the security implications of Chinese investment in the project.  As with everything about Hinkley, the answer is mired in complexity and open to dispute. A recent report by the Energy & Climate Intelligence Unit, a think-tank, claimed Britain could not only survive without Hinkley but save £1bn a year in the process. Others see such a benign assessment as complacent and reckless.

 

Hinkley’s advocates portray the project as a crucial step in replacing the UK’s dirty coal-fired power stations and its existing but ageing nuclear reactors. About 60 per cent of UK electricity-generating capacity in 2010 is forecast to have disappeared by 2030.

Cancelling Hinkley would require the UK to find alternative sources for the 3.2 gigawatts of power — about 7 per cent of national demand — expected from the plant. Options for achieving this would be constrained by the government’s carbon reduction targets, which rule out a revival of coal or a large-scale shift to gas.    Arguments for scrapping Hinkley tend to rely heavily on the potential for offshore wind to become the backbone of UK generating capacity, taking advantage of the country’s location on the edge of the north Atlantic.  While the cost of nuclear reactors continues to rise as technology becomes more complex and safety standards more exacting, wind power is moving the other way. “The price of wind and solar is falling so rapidly that the economic arguments for them are becoming as strong as the environmental ones,” says Doug Parr, chief scientist at Greenpeace, the environmental group.  At a cost of £120 per megawatt hour, electricity from the latest UK offshore wind projects remains more expensive than the £92.50 promised to EDF, the French utility planning to build Hinkley with Chinese backing. But the cost of offshore wind fell 11 per cent between 2010 and 2014 and further reductions are expected as the industry matures.  The UK is projected to have 37.9GW of wind capacity by 2030 under current plans — 60 per cent offshore. The ECIU reckons just four additional large offshore projects would be enough to replace Hinkley.

Edited 9 September, 2016 by lol-lol

[mannyo]

Its easy dispose of them - same as ships and tankers.

sell them to a company in Bangladesh where kids will strip them down with rudimentary tool kits and 0 H&S or environmental concerns...

Google them ship breaker yards.. where they literally ram them as far on to the beach as theyll go and then just torch cut them imto chunks.. so many levels of horrendousness, ive only seen similar in reports from them sulphur mines on active volcanoes.. :no: :no:

 

A lot of the old Cross channel ferries (well those that are not sold to Greek island hopper companies) end up on the beaches of Alang and other ship breakers in India.

 

Such as this one.

 

http://www.doverferryphotosforums.co.uk/mv-seafrance-renoir-past-and-present/

 

Scroll down for the pics of it being broken up.

 

The same fate met the Stena Fiesta after seafrance went bust and a number of others.

 

http://www.doverferryphotosforums.co.uk/mv-seafrance-cezanne-past-and-present/

Edited 9 September, 2016 by mannyo

[Fab Estate]

 

There was a lady on the radio, Radio 4 and 5 live I think, thought she might have been Ofgen but perhaps was the organisation mentioned below in the FT, reckoning that we did not even need Hinckley C if we were smart with generation and storage.  Certainly I seem to see my electricity bills go lower and lower as I re-engineer my home lighting and the weather seems to get warmer and warmer.  As long as the Gulf Stream doe not turn off I expect we will be fine with a mixture of gas, solar and wind generation and hydro-electric and other electrical storage solutions Tesla and others are rolling out.   

 

Can Britain keep the lights on without Hinkley Point?

Cancelling project would require tapping other sources for 3.2GW of power

https://www.ft.com/content/d90cf01a-732c-11e6-bf48-b372cdb1043a

 

The proposed Hinkley Point C nuclear power station © PA

SEPTEMBER 6, 2016  

by: Andrew Ward, Energy Editor

Of all the thorny questions facing Theresa May in her review of the Hinkley Point nuclear power project, one dominates the rest: could Britain keep the lights on without it?  If Hinkley is indispensable, scrapping the proposed power station in Somerset would leave the UK facing an energy crisis. If not, the prime minister has more freedom to address her concerns over costs and the security implications of Chinese investment in the project.  As with everything about Hinkley, the answer is mired in complexity and open to dispute. A recent report by the Energy & Climate Intelligence Unit, a think-tank, claimed Britain could not only survive without Hinkley but save £1bn a year in the process. Others see such a benign assessment as complacent and reckless.

 

Hinkley’s advocates portray the project as a crucial step in replacing the UK’s dirty coal-fired power stations and its existing but ageing nuclear reactors. About 60 per cent of UK electricity-generating capacity in 2010 is forecast to have disappeared by 2030.

Cancelling Hinkley would require the UK to find alternative sources for the 3.2 gigawatts of power — about 7 per cent of national demand — expected from the plant. Options for achieving this would be constrained by the government’s carbon reduction targets, which rule out a revival of coal or a large-scale shift to gas.    Arguments for scrapping Hinkley tend to rely heavily on the potential for offshore wind to become the backbone of UK generating capacity, taking advantage of the country’s location on the edge of the north Atlantic.  While the cost of nuclear reactors continues to rise as technology becomes more complex and safety standards more exacting, wind power is moving the other way. “The price of wind and solar is falling so rapidly that the economic arguments for them are becoming as strong as the environmental ones,” says Doug Parr, chief scientist at Greenpeace, the environmental group.  At a cost of £120 per megawatt hour, electricity from the latest UK offshore wind projects remains more expensive than the £92.50 promised to EDF, the French utility planning to build Hinkley with Chinese backing. But the cost of offshore wind fell 11 per cent between 2010 and 2014 and further reductions are expected as the industry matures.  The UK is projected to have 37.9GW of wind capacity by 2030 under current plans — 60 per cent offshore. The ECIU reckons just four additional large offshore projects would be enough to replace Hinkley.

 

I see the French are behind this. Are Renault/Peugeot going to stop making diesel cars so that us Brits buy battery cars and drain unnecessary  power away so that we are forced to build Hinkley Point?

[lol-lol]

I see the French are behind this. Are Renault/Peugeot going to stop making diesel cars so that us Brits buy battery cars and drain unnecessary  power away so that we are forced to build Hinkley Point?

 

Many French do not want EDF to get involved in Hinkley.  One wonders if the contract for the electrical supply is in Euros or Pounds as this mart partly affect whether the French, and even the Chinese want to now go thru with the project.

 

There have been articles about several car manufacturers how they can meet the Euro7 emission engines and this will probably affect the amount of diesel to petrol and electric cars each produces.  PSA have supplied many engines to BMW, Ford, Volvo etc in the past. Renault supply petrol engines to Mercedes and Smart, not sure who else if anyone.  Love the 3 cylinder petrols and because I do not tow it ticks all the boxes of a utilitarian motor.Hope to get a Clio RS in the next few months but really would like a Tesla or a Chevy/GM Bolt.     

[Ootohere]

Well i ordered my new VW Group dirty diesel today. Maybe the last of the dirtiest they will sell, but which they have down as not a high polluter.

(they will have that lower EU Test co2 due to Stop / Start which i will never use.)

I thought i best get in there while they were still available without the need of having one with the need of Adblue.

Happy with what i got in the most basic model, other than it having an electric handbrake, but that is progress,

or actually not progressing but parking.

[lol-lol]

Well i ordered my new VW Group dirty diesel today. Maybe the last of the dirtiest they will sell, but which they have down as not a high polluter.

(they will have that lower EU Test co2 due to Stop / Start which i will never use.)

I thought i best get in there while they were still available without the need of having one with the need of Adblue.

Happy with what i got in the most basic model, other than it having an electric handbrake, but that is progress,

or actually not progressing but parking.

 

Did a 100K miles in a SEAT Toledo/Altea XL with the 140 2-litre diesel with the 6 speed DSG and it was a very good vehicle, then they had 10k service internals but I expect they have now moved the variable.  Had lots of good SEATs ie Leon Cupra but found the local SEAT dealer not so good compared to the then Skoda dealer but I suppose they can be taken to a VW/VAG dealer as it is same as the new Sharan.  Made in Portugal in the old joint collaboration factory they had with Ford but now built on the Passat floor plan.  See they produce a petrol one now with a DSG, did you consider that one and does it come with the 6 or 7 speed DSG as some say 6 and I do not see why it would not be the 7 speed we have had in our Fabia 2 VRSs? 

[Ootohere]

Many did not know the 1.4TSI back in 2010 were 150ps Twinchargers.

 

This is a very basic 'S' & 6 speed DSG, Comfort Suspension, 16" Alloys, and there is no XDS, no Cruise Control, no Sat Nav, & even no Lid on the dash top compartment, no privacy tints on the rear glass, & no electric sliding doors or automatic rear hatch, no roof rails, underseat / underfloor storage.

 Lots it does not have compared to a SE or SE Lux, but i want it to use like a van and will put a dark tint on the rear.

(They still show the RRP up near £29,000 with Metallic paint which obviously is needed as you can buy a car unpainted. But we know how that RRP's are a wish and a dream of Seat UK.)

 

I was surprised to find out they have Conti Seal self sealing tyres. So going to need to carry a spare and jack inside or fit a spare carrier.

 

The Seat Leon FR 1.8TSI 180ps DSG is a cracking car IMO, like a grown up Fabia vRS that handles.

I had a we blast in one rather than driving the new Ateca.

Edited 12 September, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[lol-lol]

Many did not know the 1.4TSI back in 2010 were 150ps Twinchargers.

This is a very basic 'S' & 6 speed DSG, Comfort Suspension, 16" Alloys, and there is no XDS, no Cruise Control, no Sat Nav, & even no Lid on the dash top compartment, no tints on the rear glass, & no electric sliding doors or automatic rear hatch.  Lots it does not have compared to a SE or SE Lux, But i want it to use like a van and will put a dark tint on the rear.

(They still show the RRP up near £29,000 with Metallic paint which obviously is needed as you can buy a car unpainted. But we know how that RRP's are a wish and a dream of Seat UK.)

I was surprised to find out they have Conti Seal self sealing tyres. So going to need to carry a spare and jack inside or fit a spare carrier.

The Seat Leon FR 1.8TSI 180ps DSG is a cracking car IMO, like a grown up Fabia vRS that handles.

I had a we blast in one rather than driving the new Ateca.

 

Priced up a Transporter as a van type vehicle to use as something to use for carrying a Kart and equipment and now you can get with petrol it is even more attractive.  Thought it would be better to buy it within a VAT registered business as the VAT has become such a huge part of buying and hence me, and most car "buying" is done on PCP now to avoid the horrible VAT hit.

 

I would like to try the 192 hp 1.8 TSI and it is an interesting engine with both Direct and Indirect injector as petrol cars were starting to see a spike up in NOX when pure Direct injection and indirect does seem to result in better emissions if not better power etc.

 

Such a shame the Skoda brand has missed out on so many sectors now ie hot/warm hatch and a big 7 seater/load carrier and we keep hearing this.  The silly bargain 7 seater, seen on the continent, is the Dacia Lodgy, much used as a taxi in some areas, crazy cheap but old tech and safety but silly price ie £10k but we cannot get in RHD in the UK, yet.  

[Ryeman]

It's starting to look like the game's up for light diesels

Four major cities move to ban diesel vehicles by 2025

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38170794

[lol-lol]

Just the start.  Many more cities to follow with similar bans.  If a car is expected to last between a decade and two decades this will start to affect diesel residual values soon. 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TviQl_MzDSE

Edited 2 December, 2016 by lol-lol