Hello, used to post on here about 3 years ago as "skod_up_north" but seems the account has been closed!

 

 

Car: 2013 Octavia 1.4 TSI Petrol Estate, manual gearbox.  I have the problem the Stop-Start stops but then does not start, and looking for advice. 

 

Had a 3 years service a month ago and no issues, no software updates required since last service.

Car starts normally with no problems and no warnings

 

After you have met all the conditions for auto stop-start to work (driven 1/2 mile, engine warm, no air-con, ambient > 5 deg no recent reversing etc.)  

 

I stop the car and put it in Neutral,  the "A in a circle" light come s on and the engine stops, as normal.  About 1 second later the "EPC" warning light comes on, and the steering feels "heavy".   

 

If I then press the clutch I get a message "Start Car Manually" followed by "Start/Stop System Error"  "EPC" indicator stays on  If I then start with the key it starts with no issues. 

 

Auto Stop-Start is then disabled and I can drive as normal, no sign of any adverse performance. 

 

If I then turn off/on the ignition and restart with key the "EPC" light goes out everything is as normal until next time I meet the conditions for auto start-stop when the problem occurs.

 

I plugged in a small generic ODBII bluetooth dongle and looked on my tablet (App is "ODB Car Doctor Pro") for diagnostic codes

 

Immediately after problem occurs, i.e. will not auto-start

 

*P0200 Injector Circuit/Open

*PB2F00

 

After ignition off and on  - NO ERRORS

 

Any suggestions? 

 

 

It seems strange to be reporting an injector problem (I think P0200 is all the injectors) after the auto stop, but not when started / stopped manually, this makes me think it's not really this.  And does anyone know what the PB2F00 code is?

 

I can take to the main dealer but have something of fractious relationship with them due to having to stand my ground to get a couple of things fixed under warranty over the last three years, they were adamant were not  covered - I won!  Anyway now the warranty has expired.

 

Thanks  for reading this far.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P0200 is indeed all cylinders, problem is with a EOBD reader you never know if you're getting all the codes :-(

Does this happen in all drive modes?

I'm sure a few people had this issue (ignoring the fault codes) but only in ECO mode......

Can you switch drive profiles or is this not an option?

There is 1 known engine issue on this engine (subject to vin etc.) which is a faulty machined cylinder head - this doesn't look like your issue though as you don't have any of the other symptoms.

Cylinder head: (OE: 04E 103 064 FX)

Edited 17 October, 20169 yr by xpower

Thanks - The car has always been in custom" mode but with drive set to "ECO".  I changed to "NORMAL" and the problem is still there.  I not sure on the difference ECO/NORMAL makes, other than perhaps the conditions that trigger the STOP?  

 

I realise the limitations of my 8 quid ODB reader.  a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, although the app does do some nice graphs and dials of what's going on from the CAN bus data

 

I know from earlier fault - dodgy wiring to the ECU, fixed under warranty, where the car reported 4 simultaneous wheel ABS sensor failures on the display the ECU will start reporting all sorts of codes if the voltage to the ECU starts dropping.   Also curious why the "EPC" warning light comes on (I can scan the code) and then "EPC" goes off again when the ignition is turned on/off  and the code is not there any more when scanned?

 

Just spoke to the main dealer, earliest that can look is ~8-9 days from now!  there were various questions over length of trips, etc - in the last three weeks it has done nothing but short round town trips, and it generally sits round during the week.  Suggestion was do a longer trip to charge the battery a bit and see if the problem is still there. 

 

Looking at the small current sensor on the battery -VE lead It's a Bosch start-stop system

http://de.bosch-automotive.com/en/parts_and_accessories/motor_and_sytems/start_stop_system/functionality_start_stop_system/functionality_start_stop_system

 

So I think there is no secondary battery only the main one in the car.  

 

Starting to think this is due to the voltage dropping a bit when the STOP-START activates and upsetting ECU that then gives the error when it goes to check the injection ready for the start, thus giving the P0200 error.  

 

Will do some further testing (have a nice calibrated multimeter) this evening...

Also curious why the "EPC" warning light comes on (I can scan the code) and then "EPC" goes off again when the ignition is turned on/off  and the code is not there any more when scanned?

If the ECU thinks it's an intermittent fault that isn't serious enough to put the engine into limp mode then it will automatically clear the code from its internal memory (so the code reader won't see it) after several tests when the fault isn't present.

Suggestion was do a longer trip to charge the battery a bit and see if the problem is still there

If the battery isn't adequately charged it shouldn't stop the engine in the first place.

UPDATE : I have done some testing logging speed, RPM and voltage both before and after I charged the battery.

 

 

BEFORE charge

 

Drove for about 9 miles, 2 Stop/Start went OK, thereafter continuously failed, Stops about 1 second later EPC warning light comes on, then advises to start manually.  Voltage (as reported by ODB2) 14.6v when running,  drops to 12.0 as soon as engine stops, then drops to 11.6 in around 2 seconds at which point EPC is triggered.  starts with no issues turning the key.

 

Charged for ~6 hours, started drawing 2A had dropped to ~300mA by the end.

 

AFTER CHARGE

 

Drove 20 miles, made 30 stops, stop-start worked perfectly on all of them.   Voltage (as reported by ODBC) 14.6 when running, drops to 12.0 as soon as engine stops but then holds between 11.9 and 12. 

 

No idea what next - part of me thinks the battery is getting old, but it's only 3 years old and done 18k miles, and it starts the car fine with no issues. 

I would gamble the battery is knackered. Your mileage is quite low, lots of short journeys etc.

Changing the battery for a genuine skoda replacement is cheaper than getting the dealer to look at it.

If it is a bigger fault, you're only just out of warranty, you should be entitled to some goodwill towards the repair cost.

There's a field campaign available for some O3s where the battery voltage regulator is replaced due to repeated stop/start failures.

It might be worth a call to your dealer to see if your car is affected.

Definitely points to a faulty battery. It would be good to get a full scan on the car done as your OBD reader won't b able to access the battery controller etc to check for codes.

 

If it is the battery at fault then make sure the replacement is the biggest you can physically fit in there. VAG are well known to fit inadequately sized batteries to their cars to save a few ££s.

 

Changing the battery for a genuine skoda replacement is cheaper than getting the dealer to look at it.

 

It will need coding by a dealer/VCDS though following a battery change. The car has to be told the brand, type and serial number of the new battery so it knows it's capacity etc.

Surely it'll work as long as you change it to one of the same spec?

Thanks for the replies so far -   The car has only done 18k and it has mainly been motorway miles, sits on the drive in the week as I cycle to work.  so not that many stop/start cycles.  Although in the three weeks before the problem started it had only done a couple of 6 mile journeys   so the theory of a fault in the Stop-start regulation circuit is an interesting one.  

 

not got time to "deal with the dealer" for a couple of weeks, but It was [supposedly] checked against the register when serviced 4th September.  and I was hoping a recall on the voltage regulator might have come up then - stupid question,  is there's no way of me checking this directly (e.g. web site) other than the dealer?

 

Regarding a new battery this is interesting conversation,  There is space for a bigger battery in the car than currently fitted there, perhaps 20% longer

 

I had a quick surf round the web last night, naturally nothing from Skoda itself, but...

 

There are plenty of websites where you enter your registration number and it tells you which battery, my experience is most give the wrong answer it misses the fact the car is start-stop and needs a bigger AGM battery!

 

The Halfords one picks this up, and says stop-start or non stop-start, I end up getting offered this at 70AH

http://www.halfords.com/motoring/bulbs-blades-batteries/car-batteries/halfords-start-stop-agm-battery-096agm-4-yr-guarantee

Not the bit about needing professionally fitted and adding to the car computer

 

phil-e/glosrich,  I could understand needing to program capacity but why brand and serial number, is the start-stop so sophisticated I knows the performance characteristics of the different battery manufacturers?  Also why a serial number, surely there can't be electronics within the battery to transmit this to the car (easily technically possible but would add to cost of battery)

 

I think a like for like change would work - unless the car's building up some sort of model of battery performance over time, but in this case would it not be reset when disconnecting the power?

 

This thread to to be continued...

Surely it'll work as long as you change it to one of the same spec?

If you don't change at least the serial number then the battery management will assume that you still have the same knackered old battery, so start-stop won't work any better.

 

When changing the battery you MUST change at least the serial number to reset the battery state of charge calculation in the battery management module - which is what determines whether start-stop can be used, when to shed loads to protect the battery, etc.

 

Disconnecting the battery does NOT reset this data as it's stored in non-volatile memory.

Edited 21 October, 20169 yr by PetrolDave

Would that mean any 3rd party battery supplier I.e. Kwik ****, etc would not not have the capability to program the battery into the ecu?

Would that mean any 3rd party battery supplier I.e. Kwik ****, etc would not not have the capability to program the battery into the ecu?

Don't know about Kwiki Fit, tried putting the registration number into the web: 

Sorry, we could not find any batteries suitable for your 2013 SKODA OCTAVIA SE TSI, SV63***

 

 

But some well known 3rd party people are offering

http://www.halfordsautocentres.com/car-batteries/halfords-start-stop-agm-battery-096agm-4-yr-guarantee

Most vehicles will require this battery to be registered with the on-board computer system, which will be carried out during the fitting by one of our qualified technicians at your local autocentre.

 

Interestingly the price quoted fitted (at the time of writing) is less than the retail price on the Halfords website with "we fit it" extra...

 

I in no way consider myself a car enthusiast, I just use it - but I would always change a battery myself, now seems even that's not possible, how long before you need a computer to drive the thing in the first place?

Interesting.

Yet with all the car computing power it's unable to differentiate between one battery and another. Dumb!

Seriously? A battery replacement is a dealer fit only?

I swear to god these manufacturers think we're just a cashcow. If you compare dealer prices for batteries compared to online exact same ah and cca ratings, you can get good quality bosch silver line 5 year warranty stuff for half the price and fit it yourself. Clearly not anymore....

Seriously? A battery replacement is a dealer fit only?

...or anyone with access to VCDS or OBDEleven or similar diagnostic tools.

So for the vast majority of owners, it will be a dealer. Handy, when your battery is shagged, you're stuck at home and need the car and you have to wait a week for them to even look at it,if my local one is anything to go by..... mind you, rather that than Kwik sh#t. Who will rob you blind.

Although if you swap the battery yourself, I'm sure the car is capable of working out the float voltage is high enough for stop start to work? My understanding is that the car will disable stop start when the battery voltage drops below a certain point. Replacing it with a suitable capacity fully charged one should get it working again if the voltage monitor is working? Or does it assume that a lot voltage is a sign of a sulphated unrecoverable battery? I know deep cycling will contribute to this but you can partially improve sulphates batteries using some high voltage charge cycles. It is a bit of a pain in the ass to have to get it reprogrammed when you want to simply change it. I do tend to change mine every three years regardless of condition so I'll just get it done at service time, rather than have the inconvenience when I least need it (on the way to the airport.....)

Edited 22 October, 20169 yr by Mallettsmallett

Sadly, this is the way it's gone with VAG (and I suspect other manufacturers) too as they add Start-Stop in order to meet the emissions requirements.

 

The battery condition monitor includes characteristics for different battery manufacturers and battery types, if its calculations aren't reset from what it considers to be a knackered battery it can cause all sorts of carnage by turning off electrical loads, not just disabling start-stop.

 

Instead of just being useful, and a cost saving for minor issues, it seems that owning your own diagnostics lead is becoming a "must have".

 

IMHO the blame can be laid at the door of the "Greens" for this sorry state of affairs...

Edited 22 October, 20169 yr by PetrolDave

Yes. Damn those Greens and their terrible insistence on improving air quality.

Latest Update.   

 

Just back from a weekend on the West coast climbing,  ~150 miles rural A roads to get there, car behaved for the first 100 then:

 

Overtook something - as the RPM went up the  EPC light came on - all power vanished and I had to duck back in again.  Pulled over and inserted ODB2, paired with the phone and  got error

 

P0299 Turbo/Superchrger Underboost

P00AF <Unknown>

 

Turned off/on ignition EPC gone car working OK again so I  carried on again, rather more cautiously this time! 

 

Stopped Stop/Start comes on and the voltage kept dropping again- at ~11.8V EPC comes and have to start manually, ignition off/on clears again.

 

Passenger monitored the (ODB2) voltage on the phone rest of the journey, engine running all the time - it varied between 11.7 and 14.5, often spending a long periods just below 12.0.  You can see the "regenerative breaking" pushing it up and the power steering, A/C, Heater pulling it down due to the load.    I am guessing the turbo incident was due to it dropping low enough to upset the ECU.

 

So conclusion is either the battery, or the voltage regulator in the Bosch Stop-start system is faulty. 

 

Anyway I'm about to call the dealer in the morning, then wait the obligatory week before they can do anything.

 

What does a diagnostic cable/software cost,  used to design embedded micro-controllers for a living so I think I should be able to handle it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

. 

This is the genuine VCDS HEX-USB+CAN lead from the UK distributor Gendan http://www.gendan.co.uk/product_VCHU.html or you can get this CAN only version which is cheaper http://www.gendan.co.uk/product_VCMC.html

 

These come with free online support from the developers Ross-Tech on their website http://forums.ross-tech.com/forum.php and free software updates for life.

 

Yes you can buy Chinese rip-offs cheaper but they come with older hacked software (which will struggle with many ECUs on an MQB platform car like the Octavia III), and don't expect any support or help when you have a problem or the lead stops working

Edited 23 October, 20169 yr by PetrolDave

I have VCDS if you require a scan/code etc. & have fitted a bigger battery to my MK7 Golf estate & did a how to on the MK7 Forum here:-

 

http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7926

Maybe the VAG should provide all owners with a free vcds cable and software to allow us to reprogramme the car if we change battery or allow kwik **** to do the job on our behalf.

Personally I would not want to pay main dealer prices for something as simple as a battery change out. License to print money I think.

Skoda is a budget car but unfortunately like the majority of budget manufacturers they have created a monster whereby even simple tasks require a level of so called specialism which in turns brings the burden of elevated costs. Have the likes of skoda etc forgotten their own brief?

Skoda haven't been "budget" cars for a long time.