Takes ages to warm up

[BNT1985]

Hello all

 

This is my first Skoda and diesel car as well so if this is a noob post my apologies.  

 

I find my Skoda's engine temperature takes some time to warm up and blowing hot air, usually in the region of 4-5 miles driving at around 35-40mph going to work in the morning, previous petrols used to take around a mile unless it was a particularly cold morning.  I can see this being a bit of a bitch with demisting in the coming winter months.

 

Is this down to the car being a diesel, the engine is just slow to warm up or generally typical of the car I have?

 

Octavia III 2.0TDI

 

Thanks

 

 

[pist0nbr0ke]

Yep, typical I'm afraid, by my experience. It's the main reason I went for the winter pack on my current car.

[SkodaVRS1963]

Diesels will always take considerably longer to warm up than petrols, mainly due to the engine block construction.

[CCTaylor]

Diesels will always take considerably longer to warm up than petrols, mainly due to the engine block construction.

Also the diesel engine is more efficient so has less waste heat to supply the heater.

[Phil-E]

Welcome to diesel ownership!

Although my Saab diesel starts kicking out warm air in less than a mile.

Unfortunately the pre-heater and electric auxiliary heater aren't an option for the UK market.

[SkodaVRS1963]

My diesel VRS never got as far as providing heat on my 9 mile commute home on an evening (thank God for the heated seats).

 

My petrol ST gets me warm within 4 miles.

 

Diesels won't warm up quickly, it's the nature of the beast.

[GainfulShrimp]

I agree that diesels are slow to warm up.  Using the aircon helps a lot with demisting (and keeps it working better than leaving it switched off altogether over winter).

[Phil-E]

Thing is it's not all diesels that have this problem.

 

Must be something in the design to allow some to warm up so quick. Whether it be an auxiliary heater or block heater.

 

Like I say I get start to get warm in just under a mile and proper warm air in about 2. Temperature gauge up to 90 in about 5 miles.

 

Similarly my father's previous VW Sharan would kick out warm air within a couple of minutes but I know for a fact that had a diesel aux heater in the back.

 

I've also been in a Vauxhall insignia diesel that had similar warm up times to my Saab.

 

So what are Skoda/VAG doing wrong with their diesels?

[KenONeill]

That seems like a pretty typical warm-up for a diesel to me too.

[flybynite]

It is funny because the EA288 is supposed to be one of the better engines (ignoring external heating aids) for heating up as it has the same triple coolant circuit as the EA888 petrol, which I know works well.

 

When cold it does not circulate water at all, then when warmer it circulates only through the heater and not through the radiator etc. Only when it is up to temp does it open the radiator to flow.

 

It is not that they are doing some thing wrong with their diesels, it is (unusually) that is is something right and efficiency is high enough that it turns less diesel to heat than others.

 

Quite a few diesels have an 'AUX' heater but there are two different types.

 

First is an electrical element (think old three bar fire) in the heater matrix that just warms the air in the heater. A lot of cars have these and it is generally transparent to the user (no controls) and is fairly instant

 

Second is a heater that heats the engine water, either by burning fuel (eberspacher/webasto etc) or mains electricity (Calix/DEFA etc) They are rarer in the UK (although I use the ones I have all the time  :sun: ) 

 

I have not used one of the newer 2.0TDi engines in anger on a cold morning but I would think it is no worse than other new generation diesels and will always suffer in comparison to an older, less efficient diesel, or one with some form of aux heating

[gregoir]

There's plenty of correspondence on the topic under Octavia II. I always got enough heat to warm me and demist the car but on a few occasions, when minus 10°, on a long 3 mile descent the temperature gauge dropped. Under normal conditions with climatronic the heating performs well. I've just got a petrol Octavia. Watch this space.

[Lady Elanore]

I thought diesels were, by design, much poorer at delivering heat to the cabin as they are thermally much more efficient than petrol engines. I've had a couple of diesels with aux heaters which helps during warm up. Mind you my 3.0 petrol car heats heats up very quickly indeed

[cheezemonkhai]

Thing is it's not all diesels that have this problem.

 

Must be something in the design to allow some to warm up so quick. Whether it be an auxiliary heater or block heater.

 

Like I say I get start to get warm in just under a mile and proper warm air in about 2. Temperature gauge up to 90 in about 5 miles.

 

Similarly my father's previous VW Sharan would kick out warm air within a couple of minutes but I know for a fact that had a diesel aux heater in the back.

 

I've also been in a Vauxhall insignia diesel that had similar warm up times to my Saab.

 

So what are Skoda/VAG doing wrong with their diesels?

- Some diesels have electric heaters in the blower ducts

- Some have a loop through the exhaust to get it up to temperature that closes off when warm

(They used to run the derv through a pipe near it in the days when derv froze)

- Some have derv burning pre-heaters

Maybe they could set it so that stat doesn't open up until a higher temperature.

The A3 got warm quick, but that had an electric heater, even though it has exactly the same engine as the skoda.

[aki78]

Yep, we have the electic heater here as standard equipment in the oil burners.

In my 2.0 TDI the cabin starts warming up almost instantly.

Edited 1 November, 2016 by aki78

[Gromle]

I did try an octavia 1.6TDI the other day, and by the time my TSI has the coolant at 90degrees, the tdi hadnt event had any movement on the needle...

[bytterga]

I did try an octavia 1.6TDI the other day, and by the time my TSI has the coolant at 90degrees, the tdi hadnt event had any movement on the needle...

that is correct. on a cold morning my 1.6tdi needs to be driven 8-10 minutes to reach 90 degrees if i do not use the auxiliary heater.

[AllanDJ]

My Octavia 1.6 diesel car is reasonably fast at getting some heat into the cabin on all but the coldest days, main issue is more clearing the inside of the windscreen which is sometimes best achieved by manually drying it off.

 

I can well remember my first diesel engined car many years ago which was a mark 2 Rover 400, bought it secondhand just over a year old, lovely car to drive, nice powerful engine, only downside was a rather stupid Service Manager at the garage that I bought it, as

I soon discovered that I was getting no real heat output from the car at all and being wintertime conditions were pretty baltic inside the car! Complained to garage about this, Service Manager gave me a very patronising lecture on how diesel engined cars took much 

longer to warm up than petrol engined cars and he refused to even come out and look at my car. Somehow, I struggled on in my baltic Rover until I couldn't stand it any more, went back in to complain about it again and found that the useless Service Manager had "left"

and the garage very soon worked out that my car had a broken pipe somewhere in the heating system, kind of emblematic of Rover really, some of their later cars were really good but build quality and servicing were rarely as good as they should have been.

Edited 2 November, 2016 by AllanDJ

[Gabbo]

To be fair I think the VAG diesel engines are pretty good at warmup times.

In my old Mondeo I could drive for 30minutes to work in a morning before the temperature gauge would even move on the Dashboard.

On the Octavia even at Sub-zero températures I cant remember a time when I was cold for too long & the temperature gauge wasnt in the middle.

 

The auto-climate system also does a very good job of controlling the flow & speed of the fan to ensure you dont get a big lug of cold (or warm in summer) air in the face.

[Phil-E]

I remember driving in Germany in our old Peugeot 306 1.9D. We were at a Ski resort called Winterberg and the temperature gauge kept dropping and the heater had to be on full to keep up.

 

Never experienced that in the Octavia when we had some similar temperatures another time in Germany even when driving on the motorway with more air flow. So yes they are definitely an improvement but still not brilliant.

 

Would it really be so bad to at least give us the option to choose the electric heater over here?

 

I was very close to fitting one to my MK2. I assume it's similar on the MK3 but it's basically a big electrical element:

 

 

It needs a 100amp fuse on the battery as it draws up to 1000w (@ 12v is a lot of amps!)

Edited 2 November, 2016 by Phil-E

[BNT1985]

Thanks for the replies everyone

I have emailed a Webasto dealer to see how much it would cost and how much time they would require with the car, I am contemplating emailing my local Skoda dealer to see if they could retrofit a heated windscreen.  I am leaning more to a Webasto at the moment (price unknown); way to work this morning temperature gauge says 0C and it took me 6 miles to get the temperature up to normal on a 20 mile trip, not looking forward to a -10 in this.

 

I really miss my heated front windscreen already, the Octavia is fantastic but my god; having to scrape the ice off the windscreen this morning in the cold (hard life I know) and the thought of having to do that for the next 10 years or so (I keep cars until they die or become uneconomical to repair, so 10 years I hope is a minimum) is a no go for me.  I mean 0C is nothing, this is going to mightily irritate me if/when we get a real (for the UK) 3 week cold spell of -15 like we got 3 years back; I don't really like the idea of driving a car for so long on a cold engine either (don't know if that really is an issue other than an irritation, advice welcome).

 

At the minute even before we get into winter I am looking for someone take my money and save me from this cold drudgery  :S

Edited 5 November, 2016 by BNT1985

[Phil-E]

Do you have access to an external plug socket?

If so there are much cheaper options of either an electric water pump and heater or a pad that sticks to the sump to warm the oil.

[flybynite]

Thanks for the replies everyone

I have emailed a Webasto dealer to see how much it would cost and how much time they would require with the car, I am contemplating emailing my local Skoda dealer to see if they could retrofit a heated windscreen.  I am leaning more to a Webasto at the moment (price unknown); way to work this morning temperature gauge says 0C and it took me 6 miles to get the temperature up to normal on a 20 mile trip, not looking forward to a -10 in this.

 

I really miss my heated front windscreen already, the Octavia is fantastic but my god; having to scrape the ice off the windscreen this morning in the cold (hard life I know) and the thought of having to do that for the next 10 years or so (I keep cars until they die or become uneconomical to repair, so 10 years I hope is a minimum) is a no go for me.  I mean 0C is nothing, this is going to mightily irritate me if/when we get a real (for the UK) 3 week cold spell of -15 like we got 3 years back; I don't really like the idea of driving a car for so long on a cold engine either (don't know if that really is an issue other than an irritation, advice welcome).

 

At the minute even before we get into winter I am looking for someone take my money and save me from this cold drudgery  :S

 

Unfortunately I think retrofitting the heated windscreen will not prove cost effective. It may be cheaper to find a car with one fitted. I think they are fantastic in the cold and one of the reasons I bought a Skoda to be honest. I have lived with a few Fords and other ex Ford-group (JLR etc) machines with them on and would be reluctant to have a car without now. Even if it is possible, retrofitting would be painful financially.

 

I currently have one machine with a Webasto and one with an Eberspacher and they are very good indeed. I have used that type of heater a lot in the past. It is not cheap, however, (looking at about £1000 fitted, depending on what you spec). You have to watch your battery when you use it, and like any complicated bit of kit it needs looking after and sometimes can go wrong.

 

The problem is, unlike the continent, Webasto heaters on passenger cars are not well understood in the UK and support from Webasto is pathetic at best.

 

If you go that way, you may be better talking to a dealer somewhere like Germany that know them well and finding a good mechanic to fit it here. Webasto UK will not even sell you all the best bits available.

 

Last time I went the easy way and bought a petrol  :sun:

[Alpha2110]

Make sure if you fit any type of electric heater make sure its done properly. Ie the alternator and battery are rated for the job. 100amps is enough current to cause issues with battery life, also fire if its not wired or fused correctly. I would copy the way skoda do it and preferably use there spec and parts.

[SkodaVRS1963]

Unfortunately I think retrofitting the heated windscreen will not prove cost effective. It may be cheaper to find a car with one fitted. I think they are fantastic in the cold and one of the reasons I bought a Skoda to be honest. I have lived with a few Fords and other ex Ford-group (JLR etc) machines with them on and would be reluctant to have a car without now. Even if it is possible, retrofitting would be painful financially.

 

I currently have one machine with a Webasto and one with an Eberspacher and they are very good indeed. I have used that type of heater a lot in the past. It is not cheap, however, (looking at about £1000 fitted, depending on what you spec). You have to watch your battery when you use it, and like any complicated bit of kit it needs looking after and sometimes can go wrong.

 

The problem is, unlike the continent, Webasto heaters on passenger cars are not well understood in the UK and support from Webasto is pathetic at best.

 

If you go that way, you may be better talking to a dealer somewhere like Germany that know them well and finding a good mechanic to fit it here. Webasto UK will not even sell you all the best bits available.

 

Last time I went the easy way and bought a petrol  :sun:

 

I used to drive a Ford Iveco for work in my younger days and they had Eberspacher's - as you say, they are excellent.

 

But the Iveco's were running off of 24v batteries back then (underneath the passenger seat, not in the engine bay!!) so only needed a 50amp fuse.

[SuperbTWM]

With a car more than a few years old it pays to do some VCDS logs of engine coolant temperature because they generally start to open earlier as they age. As we all know the temperature gauge is heavily weighted towards 90C