EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 2

[shyVRS245]

Still amazes me how everything is blamed on Brexit. Remainers not mentioned how well Greggs are doing due to their £1 billion sales last year.

[Smartbear]

21 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Still amazes me how everything is blamed on Brexit. Remainers not mentioned how well Greggs are doing due to their £1 billion sales last year.

 

That’ll be the project fear blinkers firmly welded in place 

[Ryeman]

6 hours ago, 181ce said:

I'd be surprised if they allow a short extension,what's the point ?.

I imagine it will be two years if granted 

Can't see the EU denying the UK it's MEPS

 

Nigel will be up for that.

[Ootohere]

A UK General Election and EU Referendum held on the same day would be just so easy.

In 4 months would be long enough.

That will maybe sort the wheat from the chaff. Get rid of some dross that are dossing about in Westminster and need whoever is in Government left to get on with implementing what is the will of the people.

[S00perb]

On 14/03/2019 at 22:01, Lee01 said:

And then look at the types of sugars the US deem as acceptable. Fructose.
US obesity at an all time high.

A doctor friend of mine warned me of some forms of Fructose (also look on labels for the worst form -  GFS, glucose-fructose syrup) far more damaging.

Unfortunately with the end of the sugar quotas (i.e. subsidised), the heavily USA subsidised corn startch (which makes GFS) started flooding OUR markets - AT THE SAME TIME SUGAR TAX CAME IN (well who got a back hader for that one then!?) http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-17-3488_en.htm

The EU ended the quotas because of heavy pressure to stop interfering - not a bad thing to have been interfering in. BUT who the hell brought the usgar tax in to aid the USA at the same time? TORIES!!

Suddenly all those drinks that used to have sugar in, now have GFS - and people think they are safer!! Drink more of it because it has no sugar in and get FATTER

 

 

[moley]

Wow, the sugar tax was introduced to help the USA! 

You couldn't make it up. 

[Ootohere]

The Sugar tax in Scotland to kill off BARRS 'Irn Bru'  but that never happened.  & at Christmas / NEW Year 24 Can packs of Coke were £5.50, now back to about £9 a pack.

Alcohol extra tax in Scotland to kill off the drinking of Super Strong Lager or Cider for jakies, but not higher taxes on Skunk, and Class A or B Drugs.

[john999boy]

Some totally unwelcome, unneeded and insensitive posts removed.

 

Whilst I advocate free speech, this thread is getting beyond stupid in so many areas that it’s just becoming time consuming to endure. So, and just to reiterate, stay on topic and do not deviate with other events from around the world unless they are directly related to this subject.

 

If further action is needed to remove any random rubbish then expect some other consequences too. 

[vrskeith]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/ford-confirms-uk-job-losses-part-cost-cutting

 

Brexit ongoing affects?? Progress end of the wedge.

[moley]

23 minutes ago, vrskeith said:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/ford-confirms-uk-job-losses-part-cost-cutting

 

Brexit ongoing affects?? Progress end of the wedge.

Ford cutting 5,000 jobs in Germany due to Brexit  falling car sales.

[Guest]

Car sales in the UK will be falling not just because of Brexit or because nobody is buying them, but due to the market reaching its peak. The fact they opened leasing up to Joe Public instead of Business Users Only is the main reason car sales were increasing. Sales have stagnated recently because the vast majority of those than can afford to lease, have. 

 

It also doesn't help that less teenagers and those in their early 20's are learning to drive, so drivers that are having to give up their licences or have died are not being replaced. 

 

The only way cars sales will increase is if they do a 'BOGOF'!

 

The same principle applies to the mobile phone industry. It is being predicted the only way the mobile industry will be able to continue will involve mergers.

 

Which may well also apply to the motor industry.

 

 

Edited 17 March, 2019 by Guest
FFS

[Ootohere]

This was back in 2013.  As for Germany being the future for growth.  Well that is not happening, the German Government allowed German Car Manufacturers to put the nail in the coffin of diesel cars sales and cars sales all around Europe.

Subprime lending and Governments printing money to lend to allow car manufacturers to be money lenders.

 

People do not want to buy the millions of used diesel cars over 3 years old that 'banks' / pension funds own.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 17 March, 2019 by Skoffski

[Ryeman]

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/brexit-delay.html?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Intelligencer - March 15%2C 2019&utm_term=Subscription List - Daily Intelligencer (1 Year)

 

(could it be that elite education is at the expense of better education for all?)

[SkodaVRS1963]

14 hours ago, Fin69 said:

Car sales in the UK will be falling not just because of Brexit or because nobody is buying them, but due to the market reaching its peak.

 

The reason I haven't bitten the bullet and placed my order for an Octavia VRS (or a Passat 240bhp BiTurbo, haven't decided yet) is because the Skoda dealer I spoke to told me in the event of a no-deal Brexit I might be faced with a 10-20% import tax "which Skoda will pass on".

 

"But I can cancel, yes?" I said and she agreed but told me I'd lose my deposit.

 

So this shimmy-shammying with something that should have been sorted out two years ago *is* affecting my decision to buy.....and I can't be the only person in the country thinking of buying a new car?

[moley]

18 minutes ago, SkodaVRS1963 said:

 

The reason I haven't bitten the bullet and placed my order for an Octavia VRS (or a Passat 240bhp BiTurbo, haven't decided yet) is because the Skoda dealer I spoke to told me in the event of a no-deal Brexit I might be faced with a 10-20% import tax "which Skoda will pass on".

 

"But I can cancel, yes?" I said and she agreed but told me I'd lose my deposit.

 

So this shimmy-shammying with something that should have been sorted out two years ago *is* affecting my decision to buy.....and I can't be the only person in the country thinking of buying a new car?

Under WTO rules the car tariff would be 10%, until EU countries find they are not selling in the UK, then the tariff will be 0%.

My reason for delaying changing the car is will the Government screw me over if I get another diesel. Should I buy a petrol and take a hit on lower mpg or do I wait for the electric car with a 400 mile range. 

[SkodaVRS1963]

2 minutes ago, moley said:

Should I buy a petrol and take a hit on lower mpg or do I wait for the electric car with a 400 mile range. 

 

Go to the Skoda Octavia <-> Skoda Octavia Mk III (2013 onward) forum and you'll find plenty of individuals claiming 50+mpg out of 220bhp petrols.

 

Which is more than I was getting from my 184bhp diesel........so buy a high performance Octavia petrol, you won't need to worry about lower mpg.

[Ootohere]

"claiming"

But not being stupid and worldly wise you would take with a pinch of salt like something on the side of a bus.

Edited 17 March, 2019 by Skoffski

[SkodaVRS1963]

33 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

"claiming"

But not being stupid and worldly wise you would take with a pinch of salt like something on the side of a bus.

 

Ah but I've been flamed on this very forum for even daring to suggest that those "fanboys" were, ahem, telling porkies.

 

So, duly admonished, I take their words at face value.

 

50+mpg is therefore achievable out of the 220/230/245bhp petrols.  I read it on here and so why buy a diesel FFS when you can get better economy figures out of the petrol?

[@Lee]

1 hour ago, moley said:

Under WTO rules the car tariff would be 10%, until EU countries find they are not selling in the UK, then the tariff will be 0%.

 

And under WTO rules if they set the tariff to 0% for the UK, they'd have to apply the same 0% tariff for ROTW. This WTO stuff is nowhere near the free market it's made out to be by some.

Edit: That's even if they could unilaterally set a 0% tariff

[essexalan]

Surprised your dealer does not know what the change in import tariff will be if a no deal Brexit occurs. I don't see any reason or any way for the UK to reduce import tariffs on EU produced cars unless there is some quid pro quo arrangement put in place which would mean a trade deal and that will not happen quickly. Present WTO rules for the UK and all the EU 28 are set by the EU.

[@Lee]

Just now, essexalan said:

Present WTO rules for the UK and all the EU 28 are set by the EU.

Eh? How does the EU set WTO rules then? 

[@Lee]

87032110	Motor cars and other motor vehicles principally designed for the transport of <10 persons including Station wagons and racing cars with only spark-ignition internal combustion reciprocating piston engine of a cylinder capacity <= 1.000 cm³‚ new (excluding Vehicles for travelling on snow and other specially designed vehicles of subheading 8703.10) (2017-2500)	10.0%	N/A	N/A
87032190	Motor cars and other motor vehicles principally designed for the transport of <10 persons including Station wagons and racing cars with only spark-ignition internal combustion reciprocating piston engine of a cylinder capacity <= 1.000 cm³‚ used (excluding Vehicles for travelling on snow and other specially designed vehicles of subheading 8703.10)(2017-2500)	10.0%	N/A	N/A
87032210	Motor cars and other motor vehicles principally designed for the transport of <10 persons including Station wagons and racing cars with only spark-ignition internal combustion reciprocating piston engine of a cylinder capacity > 1.000 cm³‚ but <= 1.500 cm³‚ new (excluding Vehicles for travelling on snow and similar vehicles of subheading 8703.10) (2017-2500)	10.0%	N/A	N/A
87032290	Motor cars and other motor vehicles principally designed for the transport of <10 persons including Station wagons and racing cars with only spark-ignition internal combustion reciprocating piston engine of a cylinder capacity > 1.000 cm³‚ but <= 1.500 cm³‚ used (excluding Vehicles for travelling on snow and other specially designed vehicles of subheading 8703.10) (2017-2500)	10.0%	N/A	N/A
87032311	Motor caravans with only spark-ignition internal combustion reciprocating piston engine of a cylinder capacity > 1.500 cm³‚ but <= 3.000 cm³‚ new (2017-2500)	10.0%	N/A	N/A
87032319	Motor cars and other motor vehicles principally designed for the transport of <10 persons including station wagons and racing cars with only spark-ignition internal combustion reciprocating piston engine of a cylinder capacity > 1.500 cm³‚ but <= 3.000 cm³‚ new (excluding those of subheading 8703.10 and motor caravans) (2017-2500)	10.0%	N/A	N/A
87032390	Motor cars and other motor vehicles principally designed for the transport of <10 persons including station wagons and racing cars with only spark-ignition internal combustion reciprocating piston engine of a cylinder capacity > 1.500 cm³‚ but <= 3.000 cm³‚ used (excluding vehicles for travelling on snow and other specially designed vehicles of subheading 8703.10) (2017-2500)	10.0%	N/A	N/A
87032410	Motor cars and other motor vehicles principally designed for the transport of <10 persons including station wagons and racing cars with only spark-ignition internal combustion reciprocating piston engine of a cylinder capacity > 3.000 cm³‚ new (excluding vehicles for travelling on snow and other specially designed vehicles of subheading 8703.10) (2017-2500)	10.0%	N/A	N/A
87032490	Motor cars and other motor vehicles principally designed for the transport of <10 persons including station wagons and racing cars with only spark-ignition internal combustion reciprocating piston engine of a cylinder capacity > 3.000 cm³‚ used (excluding vehicles for travelling on snow and other specially designed vehicles of subheading 8703.10) (2017-2500)	10.0%	N/A	N/A

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/temporary-rates-of-customs-duty-on-imports-after-eu-exit/mfn-and-tariff-quota-rates-of-customs-duty-on-imports-if-the-uk-leaves-the-eu-with-no-deal#automotive-vehicles

 

 

[essexalan]

AFAIK our membership of the WTO is via the EU which will of course expire in the case of a no deal Brexit. From what I can see the EU prefers to alter any tariffs applied to imported goods by the use of trade deals otherwise any tariffs applied would apply to all members of the WTO.

[lol-lol]

1 hour ago, essexalan said:

AFAIK our membership of the WTO is via the EU which will of course expire in the case of a no deal Brexit. From what I can see the EU prefers to alter any tariffs applied to imported goods by the use of trade deals otherwise any tariffs applied would apply to all members of the WTO.

 

The UK will resume having its own membership of WTO when it leaves the EU.   I gather the UK did submit its anticipated external tariff back in July but it has issued an emergency tariff which it intends to use in a No Deal situation....   https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/785939/Tariff_Reference_Document_13_March_2019.pdf

 

Commodities which are 0% for Ad Valorem duties move from the EU's 80% to 87%.  It is mainly finished goods, like cars and clothes, that stay at the similar rates to the EU but many intermediate goods, raw material and parts which are used in the production of finished goods are set to zero temporarily whilst the UK settles in to its new own its own position.

 

Lee is right that under WTO rules all fellow members of the WTO must be treated the same unless there is a published trade deal.   All details of deal and tariffs must be supplied to the WTO for dispute resolution if another WTO member objects.

 

One measure the UK said this week it would adopt in No Deal is to introduce the above tariff in the link above but not introduce a customs border in Ireland.  This puts Ireland in a difficult position as goods could enter Belfast, pay lower or zero customs duties, on Anti-Dumping Duty, Quota, Retaliatory Duty that the EU does apply so would Ireland need to check goods movements to check if such goods were flooding in from the six counties of North Ireland trying to avoid the EU External border controls ?

 

It is a huge mess and Hammond stated on Andrew Marr that the UK is already out of time to get necessary legislation in place by 29th of March so it is how much delay 23rd May, 30th June, one year, two years.  After nearly a thousand days since the BREXIT vote it is just stunning how little has been achieved.  Gives me a bit more time to get ready for the 200M extra customs entries per year at around £30 a pop. 

   

[gadgetman]

Because May and the Tories have run down the clock, we apparently cannot now leave the EU with a deal unless the EU agree to an extension to allow the relevant legislation to pass through the commons and Lords. 

 

 

So May going back for a millionth vote on her deal to wear down MPs is pretty irrelevant without the EU agreeing to extend Article 50.

 

 

Something else I read earlier, but cannot now find, is that the EU apparently acknowledges Article 50 withdrawal cannot be completed in practice in the 2 year limit in the Lisbon Treaty article and might need 3 years so will require the UK to move leaving back to at least March 2020. 

 

Sounds like Express propaganda to me to stir up their readership, but I can't find where I read it in NY news feed over breakfast today