EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 2

[CWARD]

3 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

I'm pretty sure that I've said before that I presently believe that neither the Con Party nor Liebour are electable. I'll now add that IMO they are both putting party before country.

 

Absolutely but unfortunately someone would have to win a majority or at least try to form a coalition. I can’t see the Lib Dem’s getting anywhere or wanting to jump into bed with another party again. Even Chukas whatever they want to call themselves are been alienated by Labour and Momentum so unlikely to kiss and make up. Would the SNP have the numbers to form a coalition with Labour and if so at what cost. 

[essexalan]

16 minutes ago, S00perb said:

SO UK democracy isn't even as clear as my understanding yesterday

Turns out YOUR MP can put a vote forward, WIN that vote WITH support of an overwhelming majority of the house AND it can get ignored and NOT EFFECT the law

What kind of democracy is that? What is the point of your MP existing? Worth attending parliament? What messed up system of democracy is this?

Nothing worth protecting from the EU that's for sure

 

The vote yesterday regarding a no deal Brexit was indeed won but the result was meaningless because the EU law as written in Article 50 over rides it. Just who are we tugging our forelocks to?

[Ootohere]

The SNP had the numbers to form a coalition.  But as it is it looks like Labour will end up with not enough any longer.

 

If the SNP did form a coalition i could see them losing many members of the party, and that is no matter who it would be with, as that would be all about them and not the Country of Scotland.  They are a Nationalist Party not a Unionist.

[Lady Elanore]

The first line of this wiki page is interesting (congratulations to the editor of the page  ) 

 

 

Edited 14 March, 2019 by Lady Elanore

[@Lee]

33 minutes ago, essexalan said:

 

The vote yesterday regarding a no deal Brexit was indeed won but the result was meaningless because the EU law as written in Article 50 over rides it. Just who are we tugging our forelocks to?

One John Olav Kerr, Baron Kerr of Kinlochard GCMG, the author of Article 50  

Also, remember who's decision it was to trigger A50 with no plan whatsoever.

[@Lee]

1 minute ago, Lady Elanore said:

The first line of this wiki page is interesting (congratulations to the editor of the page  ) 

 

 

The other day it was 'shower of ****)  

[@Lee]

53 minutes ago, CWARD said:

 

Agree with you that Labour would push for a 2nd referendum but as part of a manifesto for a general election, maybe pushed after a 3rd defeat of May's deal. It’s a risky strategy as they would probably get into power on the back of the remainers but it would be one term and most likely end the Labour Party at the same time. 

Bercow likely to not allow May's deal a 3rd vote as nothing will have changed from what I can gather. (Erskine May)
 

Quote

Erskine May, it means that; no bill having being rejected by MPs can be laid before the house again during one session (a year)

 

[S00perb]

24 minutes ago, essexalan said:

 

The vote yesterday regarding a no deal Brexit was indeed won but the result was meaningless because the EU law as written in Article 50 over rides it. Just who are we tugging our forelocks to?

 

IF the PM wished, she could do what the house voted for

BUT she doesn't have to - its non-binding

She can unilaterally withdraw art 50 at any time - she doesn't HAVE to but she CAN

The house voted against a no deal exit - but SHE doesn't HAVE to do anything about it

Its not the EU, Art 50 or some boogie-man stopping her - its the UK system that allows MPs to be ignored and as tenuous as the idea is - the people of the UK don't get a voice

 

[S00perb]

TM should have listened to the expert of negotiations apparently-

Quote

"I'm surprised at how badly it has all gone from a stand point of negotiations but I gave the prime minister my ideas of how to negotiate it, she didn't listen to that and that's fine but it could have been negotiated in a different manner," said Mr Trump.

 

[KenONeill]

5 minutes ago, S00perb said:

 

IF the PM wished, she could do what the house voted for

BUT she doesn't have to - its non-binding

She can unilaterally withdraw art 50 at any time - she doesn't HAVE to but she CAN

The house voted against a no deal exit - but SHE doesn't HAVE to do anything about it

Its not the EU, Art 50 or some boogie-man stopping her - its the UK system that allows MPs to be ignored and as tenuous as the idea is - the people of the UK don't get a voice

 

And, of course, following the 2016 General Election Mayhem was no longer bound to do anything about the result of Scamoron's consultative exercise simply because her government could not be bound by a promise made by the previous administration.

[Skoda_newby]

40 minutes ago, Lady Elanore said:

The first line of this wiki page is interesting (congratulations to the editor of the page  ) 

 

 

 

Wikipedia, the white-board of the world.

[Skoda_newby]

2 hours ago, domhnall said:

 

 

that's actually the United Nations that's doing that - your video shows a Right Wing  MEP in a press conference speaking about it but the move is from the UN not the EU. From a quick search the man involved seems to hang out with people who have some rather extreme views of Jews and also people whose skin is not white than white. Careful what you cite in support of your arguments. 

 

Apart from the fact that it has nothing at all to do with the EU though I think the story seems to be a popular one with racists and those who froth about Jews conspiring to rule the world generally. 

 

Uh-huh...

https://theintercept.com/2019/02/21/french-presidents-promise-crack-anti-semitism-threaten-critics-israel/

And from the good old USofA. Seems in order to get a job in many states, you have to sign a contract that states you won't boycott Israel. Not made up: fact.

https://theintercept.com/2018/12/17/israel-texas-anti-bds-law/

 

But we're getting off-topic. Just wanted to re-align you. I won't say anymore.

Edited 14 March, 2019 by Skoda_newby

[S00perb]

4 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

And, of course, following the 2016 General Election Mayhem was no longer bound to do anything about the result of Scamoron's consultative exercise simply because her government could not be bound by a promise made by the previous administration.

Of course. She chooses to do whatever Murdoch wants her to choose.

 

[RicardoM]

Quote

(rejected) Sarah Wollaston, who recently quit the Conservatives to form The Independent Group of MPs has put forward a plan, calling for a Brexit delay long enough to hold a second EU referendum. It will represent the first time MPs have ever voted on such a proposal. 

What citizen voted for those MPs to quit the party that put them on their list and form a parallel group?

If they don't agree with the policy of the party, they should resign and go home to let citizens elect somebody else. What kind of $hit is that? They can't go into opposition and keep their privileges too. By what authority? It is a perfect example of "f^ck you, voters!"...

[domhnall]

2 hours ago, Skoffski said:

@domhnall

UK, EU, Commonwealth citizen being the thing i am pointing out, so not anyone residing in the UK 16 or over.

Even if they do work and contribute to the economy, or are in education and might work and contribute in the future, or are buy paying to be educated in Scotland.

 

 

@Skoffski OK I learned something new today. 

 

Actually I learned another new thing, the Scottish Government have enacted something I have been lobbying on for over 15 years, but that's another matter. I'm a happy camper. 

 

[S00perb]

3 minutes ago, RicardoM said:

What citizen voted for those MPs to quit the party that put them on their list and form a parallel group?

If they don't agree with the policy of the party, they should resign and go home to let citizens elect somebody else. What kind of $hit is that? They can't go into opposition and keep their privileges too. By what authority? It is a perfect example of "f^ck you, voters!"...

No citizens of the UK voted for anything - the people that live in the UK are subjects of the queen - the only citizen rights you have are given to you by the EU

You vote for the person, not the party. If that person realises that the party they are a member of is shafting the country, they have every right to leave the party.

If you had proportional representation, you may have a point, but you don't have PR. Someone voted that idea down...............

[moley]

13 minutes ago, RicardoM said:

What citizen voted for those MPs to quit the party that put them on their list and form a parallel group?

If they don't agree with the policy of the party, they should resign and go home to let citizens elect somebody else. What kind of $hit is that? They can't go into opposition and keep their privileges too. By what authority? It is a perfect example of "f^ck you, voters!"...

In the UK we vote for a person to be the MP that represents the constituency in the House of commons. If during their term of office they decide to leave the political party they still represent the constituency. 

[Ootohere]

'British Subject'  or Commonwealth Subject not Queen's Subject. 

A British National or British Citizen.            As to what or who or where you are, wikipedia might not know.

Edited 14 March, 2019 by Skoffski

[@Lee]

Brexit delayed.
412-202
 

 

[@Lee]

Corbyn now moves for second referendum

[shyVRS245]

3 hours ago, domhnall said:

 

 

george, if you are resident (legally so) and aged 16 or over you can register to vote AFAIK, you don't have to be working as obviously you can be at school

Thought most 16 year olds carry knives and stab other teenagers. 39 Dead so far this year.

[shyVRS245]

3 hours ago, domhnall said:

 

 

that's actually the United Nations that's doing that - your video shows a Right Wing  MEP in a press conference speaking about it but the move is from the UN not the EU. From a quick search the man involved seems to hang out with people who have some rather extreme views of Jews and also people whose skin is not white than white. Careful what you cite in support of your arguments. 

 

Apart from the fact that it has nothing at all to do with the EU though I think the story seems to be a popular one with racists and those who froth about Jews conspiring to rule the world generally. 

Popular with the Labour Party then.

[moley]

9 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

Brexit delayed.
412-202

If the EU agree of course.

Quote

UK MPs have voted by 412 to 202 for Prime Minister Theresa May to ask the EU for a delay to Brexit.

 

[@Lee]

6 minutes ago, moley said:

If the EU agree of course.

 

Yep, still far from certain but Tusk is for it. Would need something big like GE or 2nd Ref.
Despite what Farage says, Salvini can't veto ****
June 30th would also mean UK participation in EU MEP elections on May 23rd

[shyVRS245]

12 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

Corbyn now moves for second referendum

That will fail heavily.