New kitchen wisdom needed

[Jono]

Hi Chaps,

I just wanted to pick your brains for anyone that might have run the gauntlet of kitchen salesmen recently or have relevant trade knowledge.

I'm mostly interested in the "real" bottom line prices and relative qualities.

We are building a small extension, putting a new kitchen in it and utility-rooming the old tiny kitchen. 

 

We are going mid-range rather than cheapo or "keeper house" kitchen.

 

We have a Howdens account, so will be getting a detailed quote there.

 

We went to Wren, who have a design we are really keen on that I haven't seen similar elsewhere (grey wood effect, very nordic) , but I nearly walked out when the salesman-bull**** started ("first visit discount", time limited deals, evasiveness over the *actual* relative prices over different designs and gadgets etc. etc.)

 

How do people rate Magnet? Wickes? B+Q? Ikea?

Do Wren come begging with discounts if you refuse to sign on the dotted line after a design-meet, citing appointments with other companies, or them being too expensive etc.

A builder (or a subbie) will be fitting it, so does it make sense to buy taps/sinks/worktops separately elsewhere?

I'd value any advice, I reckon proper research will easily save upwards of a grand.

[io1901]

We've had two Ikea kitchens (in two different houses)  and both have worn reasonably well. The last was removed (and partially reused) as we had a extension built. These units are over 10 years old and aren't really showing signs of wear apart from water damage to the doors of the under sink cupboard. I know IKEA has "updated" its carcases but the new ones look about the same quality (we bought some extra ones for the Utility room).  I'd avoid IKEA really cheap doors as they are basically painted MDF.  They are all chipboard cupboards. We have had a Howdens  kitchen at work and its very poor quality.

The last kitchen we fitted was a painted solid wood one from a local supplier -  it was based on standard cupboards but altered in manufacture to the fit the space and appliances.  It was actually cheaper than anyone else it was also easier to fit as it wasn't flat packed. 

 

 

[gadgetman]

Wickes and Howdens would get my vote. 

[blueR36]

Id avoid Magnet, terrible incompetent company 

[Hannibal]

I've seen several Wickes kitchens from Friends/Family.  They look good to me and have stood up to family abuse well.  If I was getting a kitchen tomorrow I'd probably start and finish there unless I was feeling really flush.  

 

I've bought 2x Wren Kitchens in the past, each time going in with the biggest discount/best price I can find at a competitor and then getting them to match it.  Always bought worktops, sinks, taps etc separately.  The one I had put in by a 3rd party I was much happier with than the one fitted by wren themselves.  Other things about Wren, as the cabinets come assembled you will need space to store them.  Lots of space.  But you won't have to pay your trade to assemble the flat pack.  Service is good in store but if there is anything missing on the order expect 5-10 days for the missing item and the call center staff are woeful.  

[Robshaw]

I've installed Wickes kitchens in all my flats I rent.

 

Easy to build and fit, look great, cheap(ish) to buy and easy to source replacement parts if/when required.

[Jono]

Thanks Guys.

Will be getting more plans and quotes, annoyingly though it looks like Wren have the grey wood-finish we really like :(

 

Ithink the goal may be getting the best possible deal from them.

Having said that, I'm quite happy to have the work surfaces, taps, sink, appliances from elsewhere since they won't be doing the fitting.

Anyone ever successfully held back 10% until snagging completed from any of these stores?

[CWARD]

We have a B&Q kitchen and it's as solid and good condition as they day we fitted it. We didn't use their worktops, sinks or taps though as we spent more on these items to get the best quality. We fitted all the units ourselves but used a kitchen fitter we knew to install the worktops and sink to get a good finish.

[fabdavrav]

Magnet...I just walk into the trade side & buy as I fit my own...

 

Kitchens much like double glazing...huge mark-ups & loads of BS & a good way for unscrupulous people to make a killing...

[Hannibal]

19 hours ago, Jono said:

Anyone ever successfully held back 10% until snagging completed from any of these stores?

 

You won't get it delivered if you haven't paid and if they're not fitting it then they won't be snagging.  Your best bet is to use a Credit Card and get yourself protection under the consumer credit act.  

[Aspman]

I've got a Wren kitchen and didn't get any BS at all. But then designer/sales guy was a total petrol head and we spent more time talking cars than kitchens.

 

I suggest that you don't buy any kitchen unless it's heavily discounted. Right now I'd hang off until December or January that's when you'll get your 50% off deals.

 

Wren were easy enough to buy from and I didn't get any hard sell over 'extras'. Their installers were ridiculously expensive. Kitchen was about £8k with appliances, their fitters started at £4k and would go up with every snag they could invent.

I got a joiner relation to fit it. He did a better job as well from what I'd read of Wren's lot.

Some issues after delivery with a few marked cabinets and a missing microwave. A firm email sorted the mw and replacement doors were all supplied within a week.

 

My Wren kitchen is a shiny one (I think it's midrange). DON'T GET A SHINY ONE. They mark incredibly easily. I suspect this will be the same with any supplier of shiny kitchens.

 

Howden stuff will be better if you can get it.

BnQ all looked crap

Magnet looked crap

No one near me did the German / Scandanavian stuff or I might have got that but they were dear.

Edited 4 October, 2017 by Aspman

[Jono]

Cheers guys, all useful knowledge!

Re: Magnet - I strongly suspect they are all as bad as each other. A friend had a 6 month incompetency nightmare from IKEA.

I'm not averse to travelling an hour to Coventry/Birmingham to see if a Wren salesmen are happy to undercut each other. I bet the geographical location makes little difference and it's delivered from the same depot anyway.

[S00perb]

I would look at the European way. Forget fitted - choose kitchen furniture. Cheaper, more substancial (real wood) and you can rearrange, add to, move house with it etc.

[S00perb]

woops

Edited 4 October, 2017 by S00perb

[Jono]

I can see the appeal of that, but for best use of a not-large space, sleekness and easy of cleaning, its going to be fitted. 

[blueR36]

5 hours ago, Jono said:

Cheers guys, all useful knowledge!

Re: Magnet - I strongly suspect they are all as bad as each other. A friend had a 6 month incompetency nightmare from IKEA.

I'm not averse to travelling an hour to Coventry/Birmingham to see if a Wren salesmen are happy to undercut each other. I bet the geographical location makes little difference and it's delivered from the same depot anyway.

Magnet delivered the wrong end corner , two rights, then we had to pay for the correct one to come instead of a replacement, waited over 3 months for refund of original, which I had to go into the showroom and say dont buy from here , to which they were going to escort me off  the premises to which I said ive got the local rags editors number on speedial. Suddenly I had my cheque, ( which they told me was in the post 8 times ! 

[io1901]

I suspect if you get enough answers you'll get a horror story for each of the major retailers.

[Aspman]

41 minutes ago, io1901 said:

I suspect if you get enough answers you'll get a horror story for each of the major retailers.

 

That is more than certainly true.

[CWARD]

If you know or have a recommended kitchen fitter then discuss your requirements with them. They can usually use their trade discounts and contacts to get the kitchen you want, saving you a bit of money and if you have any problems then you have the one person to deal with it rather than someone new turning up to fix issues and blame the previous workmen who rushed the job to move onto the next one.

[john999boy]

On 04/10/2017 at 12:53, Aspman said:

No one near me did the German / Scandanavian stuff or I might have got that but they were dear.

I had a German one fitted last November and as you say, they are quite expensive. The plus side is that they do have a 'quality' feel to them though. 

The downside with my installation was due to the designer not measuring the room correctly and subsequent replacements taking 6 weeks plus to arrive. As the start had to begin in a certain place, we only had a third of a kitchen fitted initially. 

When the other bits were fitted it became apparent that more things were wrong. 

The top and tail of the matter is that it was only totally finished last week. 

 

Would I buy from the same maker? Yes

Did the designer do a good job? Yes. 

Would I use them again? Debatable. 

Was the self employed fitter any good. Absolutely! 

In the end it all came good but that's only because I didn't get as annoyed as the situation maybe warranted. 

 

 

 

[mac11irl]

4 hours ago, john999boy said:

 

Did the designer do a good job? No. 

 

4 hours ago, john999boy said:

 

 

 

 

Weird thing just happened trimming that quote, but i fixed your post

If they didnt measure up properly and it caused that amount of followup hassle, the designer didnt do a very good job..

 

But the company and your fitter did as they came good and fixed the issues.

 

I rebuilt the tall cabinets in our kitchen after retiling the whole downstairs hall/kitchen, by asking a shop fitter mate to cut the carcass  work we needed for me. And i did the assembly and fitting myself.

Benefits - commercial grade 21mm hardboard veneered carcasses now on all the tall stuff and kick boards. 

And he was able to source an exact colour match to our exist cabinet doors. And i like the diy challenge and feeling a sense of accomplishment.

Cons - he did it at cost but it was still expensive (but worth it for the quality)

Took time as i had to work on it during my non-paid working hours (ie it took up more than a couple of saturdays to do them.

Other con - it cost my insurance company a new windscreen on the octavia when the second last board slid forward a bit quick putting it in the car and cracked it.. it was chipped a scuffed anyway so no real loss

[@Lee]

5 hours ago, john999boy said:

I had a German one fitted last November

 

 

Allmilmo or Poggenpohl?
SWMBO's mum has an Allmilmo that came out of SWMBO's appartment in Hanover almost 20 years ago and it still looks fresh and modern.
Two cupboards she couldn't fit in are being used here as storage in the garage. Solid as f'ck.

[john999boy]

1 hour ago, mac11irl said:

Weird thing just happened trimming that quote, but i fixed your post

If they didnt measure up properly and it caused that amount of followup hassle, the designer didnt do a very good job..

 

But the company and your fitter did as they came good and fixed the issues.

 

The person who owns the company actually did the measuring so you may want to re-evaluate that statement lol. Also, just because he's rubbish with a tape measure doesn't doesn't mean that his design flair is awry too!

I did forget to mention that SWMBO overheard the owner talking to the fitter asking him if she would notice the initially delivered kitchen being  'moved together' by 10cm(?) (think of this part as the sides of an inverted 'U' shape) - to make up the deficit. A tad difficult not to overhear especially as he was on handsfree at the time and as she's not missing her faculties, maybe also not very difficult to spot the error! 

 

1 hour ago, Lee01 said:

Allmilmo or Poggenpohl?
SWMBO's mum has an Allmilmo that came out of SWMBO's appartment in Hanover almost 20 years ago and it still looks fresh and modern.
Two cupboards she couldn't fit in are being used here as storage in the garage. Solid as f'ck.

 

No dealers local for the first one and I didn't get as far as visiting the second one as I'd already become bored of looking after seeing quite a few of the English as well as German makers like Alno, Nobilia and bauhaus. I finally settled on Schuller.

Hopefully mine turn out to be as long lasting as your MIL's units.

[@Lee]

Saw their display at Mobel Kraft in Bad Segeberg a few years ago. Looks top kit  

[kilted]

Not sure if you are still looking but it might be worth having a look at http://www.diy-kitchens.com/

 

I looked at Wren but baulked at the cost of them. A joiner mate of mine (who has fitted a ton of bespoke kitchens) said that DIY-kitchens units were as good as anyones and they were almost an identical door to the ones I wanted (but at a substantial discount from Wren).

 

Not bought the kitchen yet though but I reckon I will look at them to supply it.