Number Plates COURT CASE

[Jack898]

Hello there, I am trying to determine the legality of pressed metal number plates and have been told that there is a dubmeister pressed metal plates court case which was won. Has any one come across this court case, or is anyone able to find it for me. It would be much appreciated Many thanks in advance.

Edited 7 November, 2017 by Jack898

[Titanium_Man]

What’s the issue with pressed plates? As long as they have the relevant markings, spacing etc they’re legal?

[Jack898]

Hello yes I have a letter from the company confirming that they are registered with the DVLA and they are made to the correct font and have the DIN certificate to confirm the retro-reflectiveness. They just mentioned to me that there was a court case with dubmeister which was won on metal pressed plates I am just trying to find it and dunno if anyone has seen it before or can help on where to find it. But yes I agree with you I can seem to to the issue with them.

[roo]

8 hours ago, Jack898 said:

Hello yes I have a letter from the company confirming that they are registered with the DVLA and they are made to the correct font and have the DIN certificate to confirm the retro-reflectiveness. They just mentioned to me that there was a court case with dubmeister which was won on metal pressed plates I am just trying to find it and dunno if anyone has seen it before or can help on where to find it. But yes I agree with you I can seem to to the issue with them.

Sorry, but who won the case?  That could reference either side.

[langers2k]

I expect Dubmeister make pressed plates which meet the legal requirements prior to 1st September 2001 but that doesn't mean it's legal to fit them if your vehicle.

 

My understanding is:

 

If registered on or after 1st September 2001, you can't use any pressed plates as they don't meet BS AU 145d. They fail as it's not a retroreflecting material and they aren't resistant to bending.

 

If registered before 1st September 2001, it's legal to have them fitted but if the plates were made after 1st September 2001 they are still illegal to fit - not sure how provable the fitting date is.

 

Taken from: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/561/schedule/2/made

 

Quote

PART 1
VEHICLES REGISTERED AND NEW REGISTRATION PLATES FITTED ON OR AFTER 1ST SEPTEMBER 2001 (MANDATORY SPECIFICATION)

 

1.  The plate must be made of retroreflecting material which, as regards its construction, colour and other qualities, complies with the requirements of—

    (a)the British Standard specification for retroreflecting number plates published on 15 January 1998 under number BS AU 145d(1), or
    (b)any other relevant standard or specification recognised for use in an EEA State and which, when in use, offers a performance equivalent to that offered by a plate complying with the British Standard specification,

and which, in either case, is marked with the number (or such other information as is necessary to permit identification) of that standard or specification.

2.  Where the registration mark is displayed on the front of the vehicle, it must have black characters on a white background.

3.  Where the registration mark is displayed on the back of the vehicle, it must have black characters on a yellow background.

 

PART 2
VEHICLES REGISTERED ON OR AFTER 1ST JANUARY 1973 AND BEFORE 1ST SEPTEMBER 2001 (OPTIONAL SPECIFICATION)

 

1.  The plate must be made of reflex-reflecting material which, as regards its construction, colour and other qualities, complies with the requirements of—

    (a)the British Standard Specification for reflex-reflecting number plates, published on 11 September 1972 under the number BS AU 145a(2), or
    (b)any other relevant standard or specification recognised for use in an EEA State and which, when in use, offers a performance equivalent to that offered by a plate complying with the British Standard specification,

and which, in either case, is marked with the number (or such other information as is necessary to permit identification) of that standard or specification.

2.  Where the registration mark is displayed on the front of the vehicle, it must have black characters on a white background.

3.  Where the registration mark is displayed on the back of the vehicle, it must have black characters on a yellow background.

 

[Jack898]

7 hours ago, langers2k said:

I expect Dubmeister make pressed plates which meet the legal requirements prior to 1st September 2001 but that doesn't mean it's legal to fit them if your vehicle.

 

My understanding is:

 

If registered on or after 1st September 2001, you can't use any pressed plates as they don't meet BS AU 145d. They fail as it's not a retroreflecting material and they aren't resistant to bending.

 

If registered before 1st September 2001, it's legal to have them fitted but if the plates were made after 1st September 2001 they are still illegal to fit - not sure how provable the fitting date is.

 

Taken from: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/561/schedule/2/made

 

 

Hello Thank you for the reply But take a look at this company http://whttp://www.autostyle-plates.com/ww.autostyle-plates.com/ 

DVLA registered and fully compliant to BSAU145d these plates also meet the retro reflective standard as they re accompanied with the DIN certificate and the resistance to bending pretty sure this only applies to plastic plates as the DVLA have said there is nothing in the British standard which excludes raised lettering and metal plates. Therefore resistance to bending is not relevant anyway.  Also the The British Number Plate Manufacturers Association  https://www.bnma.org/faqs.html  If you read the last paragraph it says there is no particular material. To encourage innovation in the industry and how it can be made from either plastic or metal.

[Jack898]

8 hours ago, roo said:

Sorry, but who won the case?  That could reference either side.

The company who sell the plates won.

Edited 8 November, 2017 by Jack898

[io1901]

As posted in the other thread a motorist was stopped  for having pressed plates and they have also won their case - due to the same reasons - the standard doesn't exclude metal plates as long as they meet the rest of the specs.

 

LINK

[langers2k]

Assuming that the claim from autostyle-plates.com is correct and they conform to all  BS AU 145d requirements, they should be legal.

 

Why are you asking?

[ColinD]

Moved the topic to general, as not site/software related.

 

I suspect the OP has an upcoming case or interest

 

The autostyle website is.... disturbing like ling cars disturbing. Wonder how/why anyone actually buys, but if it's all kosher and regulations met... why not... 

 

lots of dots as I'm wondering like @langers2k

[@Lee]

11 minutes ago, ColinD said:

Moved the topic to general, as not site/software related.

 

I suspect the OP has an upcoming case or interest

 

The autostyle website is.... disturbing like ling cars disturbing. Wonder how/why anyone actually buys, but if it's all kosher and regulations met... why not... 

 

lots of dots as I'm wondering like @langers2k

I had pressed plates on My MkI Fabia. Passed the MoT without a problem.
Font, size, spacing, makers postcode, EN (IIRC) number and reflective. I think as long as those bases are covered then you're all good.

[mac11irl]

Maybe not quite relevent given different jurisdiction but..

My octavia also passed 3 NCTs with pressed metal, german font but correct character spacings, size, etc, no "pictures" plates.

Went through manys a checkpoint with them too with noone ever batting an eyelid. 

Guys get pulled and penalised for having wrong size, colours, etc plates as they dont conform to our spec requirements.

 

[Ju1ian1001]

3 hours ago, Lee01 said:

I had pressed plates on My MkI Fabia. Passed the MoT without a problem.
Font, size, spacing, makers postcode, EN (IIRC) number and reflective. I think as long as those bases are covered then you're all good.

Exactly this, if the number plate's meets the MOT requirements then the number plate is LEGAL and can be fitted to the vehicle.

2005 is when it became law to have makers name and postcode on the number plates,i remember us MOT testers getting a special notice telling to fail plates with out these markings, then a while later another one telling us not too, so far this hasn't changed. what the are made out off is no concern to us. 

[langers2k]

@Ju1ian1001 - Correct me if I'm wrong but passing an MOT does not make or prove a vehicle is fully road legal or even roadworthy?

 

Just a few examples:

- Windscreen tints aren't checked

- LED "bulbs" aren't checked

- Xenon conversions can pass if the beam pattern/aligment is correct

- DPF checks are visual only so removal is easily missed

 

The MOT should check that number plates on '51 plate and newer vehicles display BS AU 145d. However, it's beyond the MOT to check the number plate actually meet BS AU 145d so if it doesn't, it may not be road legal despite the MOT pass and BS AU 145d mark.

 

Back to the original question, are pressed metal plates from dubmeister or autostyle road legal. The answer has to be yes assuming the meet all BS AU 145d requirements.

 

If the OP has had or is having issues over the legality of their plate, they should contact the supplier and get documentation showing they meet BS AU 145d. I would also expect that any court case dubmeister won showing their plates were fully road legal would have been published on their website to encourage sales...

[Ootohere]

If anyone looks at the old MOT certificates that used to be issued they said,

 

"About the MOT Test

An MOT Test pass confirms that, when the vehicle was examined in accordance with Section 45 of 

the Road Traffic Act 1988, it met the minimum legal requirements for those items prescribed  under the Act.

It does not mean the vehicle fully meets all legal requirements or that it will continue to be roadworthy for the next year. It is your responsibility to keep the vehicle well maintained so that it would always meet MOT standards and be free from other defects.

 

Vehicle Condition.

If within 28 days of the test (three months for rust or corrosion related problems) you think that the vehicle should not have passed when it was tested 

please phone.....

 

Pity that is not still given out to those putting vehicle in for a MOT or buying a used vehicle. IMO

 

(As to road legal, there was Day Time Only MOT's, so allowing a vehicle on the road legally, but only in certain conditions, ie  Daylight, Good Visibility weather conditions.)

Edited 9 November, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[KenONeill]

31 minutes ago, Headinawayoffski said:

(As to road legal, there was Day Time Only MOT's, so allowing a vehicle on the road legally, but only in certain conditions, ie  Daylight, Good Visibility weather conditions.)

True, but it was usually pretty obvious when this would apply, since the DTOM vehicle normally didn't have headlight(s).

[Ootohere]

It was not only trials motorbikes (competition bikes) also 4 wheelers, and you could then fit lights run on the road and no police officer might bother, 

lights off, bigger plate on before next MOT, then anoth Day Time only MOT.

 

As people do with Registration Plates (Personal plate with no regulation spacing / Show Plates / smaller sizes) or even Cats / DPF's,

MOT test, Pass, change plates or components, for another 11 or 12 months.

 

Edited 9 November, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[Ju1ian1001]

2 hours ago, langers2k said:

@Ju1ian1001 - Correct me if I'm wrong but passing an MOT does not make or prove a vehicle is fully road legal or even roadworthy?

 

Just a few examples:

- Windscreen tints aren't checked

- LED "bulbs" aren't checked

- Xenon conversions can pass if the beam pattern/aligment is correct

- DPF checks are visual only so removal is easily missed

 

The MOT should check that number plates on '51 plate and newer vehicles display BS AU 145d. However, it's beyond the MOT to check the number plate actually meet BS AU 145d so if it doesn't, it may not be road legal despite the MOT pass and BS AU 145d mark.

 

Back to the original question, are pressed metal plates from dubmeister or autostyle road legal. The answer has to be yes assuming the meet all BS AU 145d requirements.

 

If the OP has had or is having issues over the legality of their plate, they should contact the supplier and get documentation showing they meet BS AU 145d. I would also expect that any court case dubmeister won showing their plates were fully road legal would have been published on their website to encourage sales...

Windscreen tints are checked and if the fall into they swept area of the wiper blades then they fail the MOT.

LED are checked and must be of correct colour i.e if they show blue or green when used as side light's they fail, all bulbs (LED or normal) must be of correct colour for purpose and must work, multi LED bulb lights must have 50% of the LED's functioning.

 

Xenon conversions are a bit of a grey area as current beam setting equiptment is not really designed for them, older factory fitted xenon's it's fine with but newer "HID's" they don't cope with, it's down to the disgression of the tester.

 

And number already mentioned in an earlier post.

 

The MOT is a very basic road safety check and the vehicle only needs to meet it's MINIMUM requirements, it even says that in the certificate.

[Ootohere]

That is not a MOT Certificate that printed now is it, just a receipt of sorts printed, or has that changed as well?

[langers2k]

2 hours ago, Ju1ian1001 said:

The MOT is a very basic road safety check and the vehicle only needs to meet it's MINIMUM requirements, it even says that in the certificate.

 

Exactly, meeting a MOT requirement does not make some road legal.

 

Unless I misunderstood you, this is the opposite of what you previously stated about number plates...

 

15 hours ago, Ju1ian1001 said:

if the number plate's meets the MOT requirements then the number plate is LEGAL and can be fitted to the vehicle.

 

If a number plate meets the MOT requirements, all it means is that you'll get an MOT certificate/pass. It does not mean that number plate is legal for road use.

[Ju1ian1001]

If a number plate meets MOT standards it's legal, Traffic police use the exact same rules there as us tester's do. the only time it isn't is if you have a modern reg number made up in silver/black plates, only vehicles used before 1971 are allowed them.

 

It's not down to us to check the BSU markings, as said in earlier post in around 2005 we had 2 notices, the first i think may of been in the march saying we fail a number plate if these marking's weren't present, the second came a few months later telling NOT to fail plates with out these markings, because it was not written in law on the statute book's, it has not yet changed. i think that is why it went court.

Edited 9 November, 2017 by Ju1ian1001

[Ootohere]

Re the Plates that pre 1973 could have, is it them that a car registered before Jan 1976 can now have if the car is on Historic Tax ?

inf104-vehicle-registration-numbers-and-number-plates.pdf