Designs will always split opinion and exterior design will always matter to some more than others. I think it is good that people like their cars and if you don't like the design you don't have to buy one.

 

I have never tended to like facelifts as they seem to mess with the original design thoughts just to create some sort of differentiation. When Jozef Kabaň stood up at a whiteboard and 'captured' the mk3 with a few lines, I got what he was trying to do and I still do like the simplicity. It would take a few more lines on the whiteboard to 'capture' the FL (although Kabaň is long gone now)

 

Personally I didn't like the facelift when I first saw it and TBH I still don't like it even after seeing it both in the metal and on the road, but then I did not like the mk2 FL either and I still think the mk1 is the best looking Octavia of them all (hatch not estate!) I don't even really like the way the vRS messes with original line although it does what it was briefed to do and make the look more aggressive (and would not have stopped me buying one if they made a petrol 4x4!)

 

You can't blame them for it either because change creates a differentiation between old and new and generates extra sales from those who always want the latest (along with those who actually like the change) you only have to look at Apple for that.

 

You are not going to stop change. When things change some things get better some things get worse, that won't change either.

 

 

All it takes is a bit of time to get over the initial shock of facelifted cars then most people come round to the new styling. 

 

I do still like the pre facelift Octavia, but it is starting to show its age a bit, with its large chin sticking out. New one definitely is fresher, more focused etc. It's not all about the styling either; advanced infotainment adds massively to a car's appeal..... 

15 hours ago, Swirly182 said:

All it takes is a bit of time to get over the initial shock of facelifted cars then most people come round to the new styling. 

 

I do still like the pre facelift Octavia, but it is starting to show its age a bit, with its large chin sticking out. New one definitely is fresher, more focused etc. It's not all about the styling either; advanced infotainment adds massively to a car's appeal..... 

 

Yes I have warmed to cars in the past, and the MK3 FL doesn't jar with me like it first did, still don't like it though.  Time hasn't changed my opinion on the Mk2 FL and the Mk1 is undoubtedly dated but I still think it is a good looking design.

 

What has been improved on the FL tech-wise? I get the LED lights (inside and out), and the virtual cockpit when it comes, but I was playing with a Golf 7 FL discover pro (Columbus equivalent) the other day and it didn't seem to have much over the pre-FL Golf. Bigger screen is a given, but some of that seemed to be lost with capacitive buttons, bit faster than the MIB2 maybe? apart from that I was struggling to see much difference.

 

Haven't really looked hard at the FL as I can't replace mine even if I wanted to but I'm curious as to what has improved in that regard

16 hours ago, Swirly182 said:

All it takes is a bit of time to get over the initial shock of facelifted cars then most people come round to the new styling. 

 

I do still like the pre facelift Octavia, but it is starting to show its age a bit, with its large chin sticking out. New one definitely is fresher, more focused etc. It's not all about the styling either; advanced infotainment adds massively to a car's appeal..... 

 

I never understand when people talk about styling aging.

Styling itself can be timeless if done right, some classic cars will look perfect and better looking than any latest production model.

Look at the old Rapid for instance, much nicer than the new one.

 

If the styling doesn't work or last long term, it wasn't any good to start with.....it doesn't "age" although styling trends may come and go, like fashion.

 

I think both the preFL o3 ( which I own) and later are both ok though

My personal preference is on my pre-FL but I could live with the slightly odd styling ( on first appearance) if it meant a trade off on  better features elsewhere, like the ediff or increased power or better seats that are on the 245.

 

I'm pretty sure that push came to shove on this most others would just go with it if some reason forced to change.

Neither are breathtakingly gorgeous (I prefer sportier looking cars I'd be thinking more 370z), but fairly certainly tidy enough for an every day practical car.

 

I'd like if Skoda did something a bit more limited concept / niche though like MG's concept "emotion" that wasn't so family oriented - maybe their own TT equivalent - we don't all have to have huge barges to ferry large families around.

1 hour ago, vRSAnt said:

I'd like if Skoda did something a bit more limited concept / niche though like MG's concept "emotion" that wasn't so family oriented - maybe their own TT equivalent - we don't all have to have huge barges to ferry large families around.

 

That's generally Skodas trump card though - practicality as well as value. You get a bigger Octavia than a Golf that costs more. Superb, Kodiaq etc. all offer more space/practicality/seats than other cars in their price ranges.

 

I suspect the VW group higher powers won't allow them to make a car that ventures from those selling points. There's already other, more expensive stuff in the VW brand stable to cater for something more sporty and less family orientated.

Actually they might be better doing it the other way around seeing as VW seem to be complaining about losing on mass sales to Skoda, why not make it more specialist.

 

IF they did make Skoda a bit more niche ( maybe taking more of the rally heritage etc) would be precisely what they seem to be needing right now,

I think they shot themselves in the foot for their own sales making Skoda what you described above

34 minutes ago, vRSAnt said:

IF they did make Skoda a bit more niche ( maybe taking more of the rally heritage etc) would be precisely what they seem to be needing right now,

I agree that would be good for Skoda, but would give VAG a problem with SEAT which they market as the more sporting brand. VAG have a "brand ladder" something like this:

 

Bugatti - extreme sports

Lamborghini - luxury sports

Bentley - luxury

Audi - premium sports

VW - premium

SEAT - value sports

Skoda - value

19 minutes ago, SWBoy said:

I agree that would be good for Skoda, but would give VAG a problem with SEAT which they market as the more sporting brand. VAG have a "brand ladder" something like this:

 

Bugatti - extreme sports

Lamborghini - luxury sports

Bentley - luxury

Audi - premium sports

VW - premium

SEAT - value sports

Skoda - value

 

 

Haha 

Skoda as bad as SEAT now for depreciation, some models even worse.

RRP's at silly prices, price to pay not near RRP unless you are silly or leasing, then there is all this Manufacturers Contribution stuff.

Actual story, best buy as a keeper or just lease because apart from Mk1 Fabia vRS they lose lots of money in 3 or 4 years.

I'd have a Skoda above a seat to be honest. Motorsport fan and love the name and heritage. Few years in touring cars and own make series doesn't make seat a motorsport brand.

What makes Škoda the value brand these days? Is it just a perception thing in the U.K? I’m sure I looked at the German škoda site when the FL was released for details and the difference in price between a vRS and a GTI was pretty much nothing. 

23 minutes ago, SC03OTT said:

What makes Škoda the value brand these days? Is it just a perception thing in the U.K? I’m sure I looked at the German škoda site when the FL was released for details and the difference in price between a vRS and a GTI was pretty much nothing. 

 

It’s just it’s place in the grand scheme of things in VAG - it is a cheaper to make and therefore cheaper product, but the perception of value is probably misinterpreted by people - just because it’s “value” doesn’t mean it’s going to be a cheap and nasty product, and Skodas definitely aren’t.

 

Unfortuntely there are still people around who turn their noses up at Skodas, and dismiss them as a poor product. I’d quite like to give them one for a few months...I’m fairly certain most would change their minds!

27 minutes ago, SC03OTT said:

What makes Škoda the value brand these days?

 

You get a bigger car for the same money  that has been their mantra for a while now. Whether it  actually results in a better car or they have noticeably cut things out/down to make up the difference is a different matter.

Edited 6 January, 20188 yr by flybynite

27 minutes ago, SC03OTT said:

What makes Škoda the value brand these days?

Good question - when we bought my wife's Skoda Fabia new in 2005 the value for money was obvious, we paid £7000 and got a car she liked more than a £14000 similar spec MINI!

 

That "value for money" is much less obvious now as the price delta to premium brands has become very small indeed.

I wonder if VW has any steering on the ever increasing OTR prices, they may be considerable cheaper to make due to labour cost differences but doesn't seem reflected in the end cost. I suppose with the narrowing margins and increasing VW deals with their concern on sales may push many to VW.

 

As for "Cheaper to make" ? Cheaper only because Czeck labour is cheaper but using same parts as on VW cars some of which may have even been Czeck built on both cars ?

That doesn't mean the Skoda labour force is any less good than the Germans, in fact they may even be using VW parts that was manufactored by Czecks.
 

It does make sense to buy and keep the Skoda for the long haul from depreciation point, I bought mine as a used at hefty "used car" Skoda approved discount with some miles on. I'd wince at the depreciation buying from new (although my dad did exactly that back in 2014 with an even more pricey L and K)

18 hours ago, vRSAnt said:

Actually they might be better doing it the other way around seeing as VW seem to be complaining about losing on mass sales to Skoda, why not make it more specialist.

 

IF they did make Skoda a bit more niche ( maybe taking more of the rally heritage etc) would be precisely what they seem to be needing right now,

I think they shot themselves in the foot for their own sales making Skoda what you described above

They did do this (in a way) with the Yeti and Roomster, which never had a direct competitor in the market throughout its life cycles.  Whilst clearly the SUV and small SUV sector in particular grew, the Yeti retained its individuality and the closest Roomster competition was always a van with windows rather than a vehicle designed as a car.  However, ‘the market’ dictated they step in line and replace them with a cars that fitted in the accepted sector slot and could share most of its DNA with other Group cars.

 

I do agree that making more of the rally heritage would be good and I think they are certainly missing out not having a VRS/fast Fabia anymore.  Skoda need to avoid the ‘older persons car’ image just because Seat target the younger market.  What the VAG Group is now missing is an Economy (rather than value) marque which is certainly proving a hit for Renault with Dacia.  However, I’m sure none of us want Skoda to go down that path.  Indeed, the Rapid (marketed as a value car) is the runt of the litter.  Is Lada, Trabant or FSO up for a relaunch?

Dacia's are there for Much Cheapness and various sizes of vehicles.

 

As to the Roomster and Yeti that so many love, the Yeti sold less than 700,000 world wide in 8 years.

It is all well offereing models that are pretty special and practical, but if people do not buy them in enough numbers then the likes of VW Group drop them, 

as long as they are not a Volkswagen.

 

Suzuki Jimny's never sold huge numbers, many hate them, but then there is nothing else that does what they do for some peoples wants,  they still sell 19 years on with exactly the same metal body shape. 

and only now is a replacement about to be launched.

9 hours ago, vRSAnt said:

they may even be using VW parts that was manufactored by Czecks.

VAG has a major engine manufacturing plant in Hungary, which not only makes mass market engines but also those for Audi RS models too.

 

Like all car manufacturers VAG manufacturing operations are spread across the globe, so the country of final assembly is almost irrelevant.

It took me too long to read the OP and understand it....... For that fact I'm out.

7 hours ago, AwaoffSki said:

Suzuki Jimny's never sold huge numbers, many hate them, but then there is nothing else that does what they do for some peoples wants,  they still sell 19 years on with exactly the same metal body shape. 

and only now is a replacement about to be launched.

On the contrary, they have sold in millions across the world, albeit in modest numbers in the UK.

No not millions, well not many millions.

2001 Japanese sales topped 2 million, but that was counting from 1970 and what they call a Jimny,

not from 1998. 

But over 19-20 year there are a lot built and sold.

50,000 a year for 20 years = 1 million, so 100,000 a year would be 2 million if they built that many.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Jimny 

 

EDIT. 

Sorry,

'Car Keys UK' in a Youtube review says they sold 3 Million. so they got that figure from someone, lets presume Suzuki.

So yes sold millions in 20 years. 3 million.

 

Sold pretty well in the UK comparing to all European sales.

Those numbers you can find with a google.

Then last year in Australia legislation limited them to importing only 100 models.

(I have 2 Australian models from 1999 & 2003 that were imported by a Scottish Dealership that brought 200 in each time and at other times as well. Better brakes, transfer box mounts on them.)

Edited 8 January, 20188 yr by AwaoffSki

I don’l like the facelift. From some angles it looks weird. And others Ok. I like to wash and detail the car, so looking like that it would annoy me too much. The pre fl is better, but showing It’s age. Will wait for the mk4. And if it is not petrol and awd I will go for something else. The prices for a Skoda in Norway is way off. So for a little more it can be a Golf R or similar. 

 

The Seat brand has not been sold for quite a few years here. But atleast they offer awd. And better brakes. Would love if the Octavia could get those.  

I only ordered a VRS after I saw the Mk 3 Facelift.

Wasn't overly keen on the Original Mk 3, also thought it needed affordable technology additions such as the LED Roadlights available on other VAG products.

I too looked at a Golf GTI and R Grid and the test drive was quite nice. For a non-rev head, I personally couldn’t see or feel a significant difference in the drive between these and a Škoda Octavia RS. In Australia the Golf is over $10,000 more than the equivalent sized and specced Octavia, and by doing a little research I managed to find a new pre-FL 2016 MY17 Octavia RS wagon for much cheaper than the FL 2017 MY18 versions in the local showroom. 

Edited 7 January, 20188 yr by SkodaAsh

On 07/01/2018 at 04:28, SC03OTT said:

What makes Škoda the value brand these days? Is it just a perception thing in the U.K? I’m sure I looked at the German škoda site when the FL was released for details and the difference in price between a vRS and a GTI was pretty much nothing. 

It’s when you get to the Golf R that you see some differences to the RS 245 mainly in the user interface. I test drove the R and it felt the same to drive (on normal public road conditions) but the GUI in the instrument cluster was fully digitised and quite impressive. Albeit not my cup of tea, I can see where it can attract a crowd. The infotainment system is also responsive to hand gestures flashed in front of it. It’s these little unique tech aspects that can really raise the premium on cars. 

 

As for the “value” brand label, I’m not so sure. Some products are great, well built and practical yet cheap, like my Kleenmaid vacuum cleaner. A fraction of the cost of the heavy duty commercial cleaners and it is solidly built giving us 15 years of flawless operation. Some products are expensive for their name but fail to pass the test of time or practicality. 

 

Where Škoda lies in such categorisation I’m not the best judge, but so far it has been enjoyable to drive a car for the first time in my life since learning to drive. 

Edited 7 January, 20188 yr by SkodaAsh