See the problem got a mention in the car queries page in today’s Auto Express,VW says “it is currently developing a solution to prevent these rare effects in the affected vehicles “.

On 19/02/2019 at 17:47, StEdmund said:

 

In a phone call yesterday with Skoda UK, I was told that rejected cars aren't allowed to be put back on the road - had I thought, I should have asked what did happen to them.

However, I asked if cars with 1.5 engines were still being sold and was told 'yes'. So I said, 'well, a fix has been found then?' 'No, a fix hasn't been found'. So, then I queried 'Does this still mean that you are selling cars with a dangerous fault ....... but you don't know which ones they are .......... until one is returned by a customer?' With that I said that I was, at best amazed and at worst, appalled and asked if I wouldn't be better simply rejecting the car, taking my money, and having nothing more to do with Skoda. Presumably this sort of nonsense is being replicated for VW and Seat as well as Skoda. At that point, I realised that I was going 'all Watchdog' and thought it best to leave it to the professionals ......... it would make a great programme if they got off their asses.

 

I have no personal gripe with any of the people with whom I have been dealing  - as I said before, my dealer is a decent chap and the ones at Skoda UK are only being told what they have to say. It's the people at the top who need to be threshed with the honesty stick.

 

 

I was really impressed by this post. I strongly agree with this and for sure would have done the same as you. I would never want to have any business with a company that treats its customers like this - acknowledging a fault but keeping selling vehicles which might be affected or not, based on luck? How crazy can this be?

God forbid that anyone ever gets killed but if they did then VWG would be looking at corporate manslaughter wouldn't they? I don't see how the senior management sleep at night?

 

Is the 1.5 TSI manual or even the DSG (which has the odd problem reported) sold in the US?

7 minutes ago, VAGCF said:

God forbid that anyone ever gets killed but if they did then VWG would be looking at corporate manslaughter wouldn't they? I don't see how the senior management sleep at night?

 

Is the 1.5 TSI manual or even the DSG (which has the odd problem reported) sold in the US?

 

Maybe this chap looked into his crystal ball and decided that, after dieselgate, enough was enough ...

 

https://www.am-online.com/news/manufacturer/2018/11/06/paul-willis-sad-to-leave-post-as-volkswagen-group-uk-managing-director

 

52 minutes ago, VAGCF said:

God forbid that anyone ever gets killed but if they did then VWG would be looking at corporate manslaughter wouldn't they? I don't see how the senior management sleep at night?

 

Is the 1.5 TSI manual or even the DSG (which has the odd problem reported) sold in the US?

 

Corporate manslaughter, perhaps, but let’s be realistic here. Nothing sticks to the guys at the top and a single instance of that happening wouldn’t stick either. Using DieselGate as an example, VW have form for denial in the first instance. They then admitted after being challenged and only after admitting did they take action and stop selling the 2l diesels. A further claim was bought against them for the 3l diesels which they also denied (after previously denying and then admitting) before admitting that as well.

 

That resulted in the largest fine ever recorded in the motor industry with the “possibility” of criminal charges. Where are those criminal charges though? What was anyone charged with and what was the punishment? CEOs and MDs rake in money and bonuses and yields from shares but the people who lose out are the 30,000 workforce that they cut globally to try and recoup money after paying fines. How many of the 30k people had any idea, responsibility or input on the emissions cheat device? I’m thinking none. 

 

So so what I would say is that if VW group are still thriving after that, a few dead customers won’t phase them much, especially when there’s only a possibility of that - they consider it rare - and that the cost of ceasing production of what is probably their most popular engine would be enormous, I think they’re playing the game and taking the risk. And I also think they don’t give two hoots that the risk, somewhere and at some point, might be someone’s life. Because in the end, a few lives aren’t worth tens of billions of dollars.

"What leads you to think that the update exists?"

 

It was mentioned during the conversation I had with a customer relations manager from the executive office Scoda UK, I was told an update was due in Q2 but there was no mention of what the update exactly was, the conversation was about the kangarooing and flatspots/loss of power in certain situations using 1st & 2nd gear when the update was mentioned.

 

As to whether I was listening to fake news or if it does exist and is still being road tested and refined your guess is better than mine.

 

 

The update exists in some form or other at this moment. We don’t know whether at this point the update is complete and is undergoing testing or if it’s still being worked on, but you can be almost certain there is an update. 

 

Beyond that though, very little else is certain. For example, whether once deployed it will be effective in rectifying the problems people are having. What I find a bit concerning is that there appears to already have been an update or updated ECU mapping. Some people think that one of these caused or exacerbated the problem and that one of them, which was meant to fix the problem, did no such thing. So what, if any, guarantee is there that this upcoming one is going to be the holy grail? An ECU version that satisfies both emissions regs and provides acceptable engine characteristics? Because one would think or maybe even expect, that the original ECU was supposed to do that and this 1.5l unit is no longer brand new but actually a couple of years old.

I've also been offered a courtesy car until software update, but in the email they make it clear it is not a fault that needs fixing.

 

My response to that, do your engineers actually know what the problem is? And, if you are not accepting this as a fault which needs fixing wouldn't the software update be pointless in connection to this issue.

 

Response today, is that they still do not consider it a fault, and quote "However, we cannot provide any technical detail on the extent of improvement that the software may produce."  That suggests to me, they haven't got a clue how to erradicate the problem. It would have been better to read, yes the characteristic (their term, not mine) has been identified, and the enginers are optomistic to find a solution shortly.  Atleast that way there is some hope!  NO SUCH LUCK

 

She then concludes to say, since they can not provide any further information, i can seek legal advice, blah blah blah, and the offer of a courtesy car is still available.

 

I can not understand, why there are still so many different stories and lies being dished out, by dealers and Skoda.  You would think they could atleast relay the same messsge.  

Just now, Salp said:

I've also been offered a courtesy car until software update, but in the email they make it clear it is not a fault that needs fixing.

 

My response to that, do your engineers actually know what the problem is? And, if you are not accepting this as a fault which needs fixing wouldn't the software update be pointless in connection to this issue.

 

Response today, is that they still do not consider it a fault...

 

If it is not a fault then on what grounds are they offering you a courtesy car?

 

They are using the term “characteristic” but in a context which is inconsistent with their actions. A characteristic of a thing is a feature or quality that serves to define it. It is inherent to that thing. Smoothness is a characteristic of a marble, searing heat is a characteristic of fire. Those things don’t need fixing because they are part of the things. Kangarooing of an engine when in proper and expected use is not a characteristic, it is a fault and it’s occurence is outside the original operational spec and expectation. Therefore it is a fault. If it was how it’s supposed to be then it would not require an update, patch, fix or whatever you want to call it and, as I stated, they would have no reason to offer you a courtesy car if your vehicle was operating within intended parameters.

 

So what they’re saying is horse s***.

11 minutes ago, Salp said:

I can not understand, why there are still so many different stories and lies being dished out, by dealers and Skoda.  You would think they could atleast relay the same messsge.  

 

The cynic in me tells me this is a design issue that they have no idea how to definitely fix all the engines affected using a single software update and any hardware fix would be prohibitively expensive for VAG or impossible to implement.

 

I am still convinced that a revised engine will be phased into production. No comfort for existing owners with problems though.

 

Totally agree.  I have sent them definitions, for the term "characteristic" and "fault".  They didn't have much to say sbout that.

7 minutes ago, Salp said:

Totally agree.  I have sent them definitions, for the term "characteristic" and "fault".  They didn't have much to say sbout that.

 

Silence in such a situation is a characteristic of not having a scooby about what to say back

Maybe someone tried to demand from the dealer to exchange the car for the same but without a kangaroo?

 

9 hours ago, xman said:

 

The cynic in me tells me this is a design issue that they have no idea how to definitely fix all the engines affected using a single software update and any hardware fix would be prohibitively expensive for VAG or impossible to implement.

 

I am still convinced that a revised engine will be phased into production. No comfort for existing owners with problems though.

 

In yesterday's Auto Express photo's of the new Mk8 Golf were shown undergoing road testing and a very interesting comment was made saying it would be launched "WITH A NEW VERSION OF THE 1.5TSI EVO". Does this confirm that VW didn't want to saddle their best seller with the problem child engine already causing them so much grief in many MQB models.

10 hours ago, Salp said:

Response today, is that they still do not consider it a fault, and quote "However, we cannot provide any technical detail on the extent of improvement that the software may produce."  That suggests to me, they haven't got a clue how to erradicate the problem. It would have been better to read, yes the characteristic (their term, not mine) has been identified, and the enginers are optomistic to find a solution shortly.  Atleast that way there is some hope!  NO SUCH LUCK

 

I am pretty sure they know very well what the issue is, buth with the homologation it got after WLTP and RDE test they just can not do any software update, as emissions after software update must not be worse ...

I am pretty sure too the NOx values are the root cause of this kangaroo and power loss, as only NOx and PM are tested in RDE tests ...

So, if you know, what affects NOx values in exhaust emissions of any direct injection petrol engine, you get the clue for kangarooing behavior of EA211 EVO 1.5 TSI engine ...

 

Of course no manufacturer will come public with any details, you as a customer can only wait for any update which can be introduced according VAG internal documents in Q2/2019, or just reject the car according your customer rights ...

2 hours ago, rayx said:

 

I am pretty sure they know very well what the issue is, buth with the homologation it got after WLTP and RDE test they just can not do any software update, as emissions after software update must not be worse ...

I am pretty sure too the NOx values are the root cause of this kangaroo and power loss, as only NOx and PM are tested in RDE tests …

 

Damn those EU regulations.....oh for a return to less restricted times.....and (on a personal note) that includes gas fires you could light with a match!

Edited 21 February, 20197 yr by Berisford

2 hours ago, rayx said:

 any update which can be introduced according VAG internal documents in Q2/2019

Interestingly, is there any evidence that such documents exist?

Well, just read this topic, mentioned here many times ...

 

Last leaked Skoda internal Technical Product Information from Skoda has number 2050744/6, just ask your dealer, if any news visible at their ELSA PRO information system for this TPI, like TPI 2050744/7 or later, exists

 

On 03/01/2019 at 16:47, Xtra2 said:

 

VW has own TPI 2048749 too

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/446820-15-sel-first-gear-issue/?do=findComment&comment=5193191

A similar TPI, wherein the "characteristic" is acknowledged albeit as yet without a solution being available,  is quoted from this German Kodiaq forum: https://www.skoda-kodiaq-forum.de/index.php?thread/1676-1-5-tsi-150-ps-mit-7-gang-dsg-nimmt-kein-gas-an/&pageNo=10

 

Edited 21 February, 20197 yr by Arkaig

I have been in my replacement/loan car Tiguan since last week now, 2.0 Tdi Auto, no Kangaroo's anywhere to be seen  My Karoq has a bigger boot as the Tiguan seems to have a raised boot floor to house the spare, controls on the steering wheel are fiddly, and it's missing the sticky velcro boot dividers, other than that it's all good.

 

Had a call from Skoda UK yesterday to arrange collection of the Karoq which will be put in to storage at the dealership until a fix is available, end of Q2 was again mentioned but no promises! I have taken everything out of the Karoq as I'm not sure if I'll see it again!

Have German engineers cracked the problem?

 

 

8 minutes ago, TheRealExile said:

I have been in my replacement/loan car Tiguan since last week now, 2.0 Tdi Auto, no Kangaroo's anywhere to be seen  My Karoq has a bigger boot as the Tiguan seems to have a raised boot floor to house the spare, controls on the steering wheel are fiddly, and it's missing the sticky velcro boot dividers, other than that it's all good.

 

Had a call from Skoda UK yesterday to arrange collection of the Karoq which will be put in to storage at the dealership until a fix is available, end of Q2 was again mentioned but no promises! I have taken everything out of the Karoq as I'm not sure if I'll see it again!

I pretty much could’ve written that post! 

Exactly the same as me, karoq in storage till a fix and same issues with Tiguan but otherwise a great car, I wonder if skoda will contact me in around August to see if I’d like to swap it for something else 

21 minutes ago, xman said:

Have German engineers cracked the problem?

 

 

Now understand why BMW diesels sound as bad as they do! They borrowed the technology from WW2 Submarines (U-Boats).

2 hours ago, Markyj said:

I pretty much could’ve written that post! 

Exactly the same as me, karoq in storage till a fix and same issues with Tiguan but otherwise a great car, I wonder if skoda will contact me in around August to see if I’d like to swap it for something else 

 

Can't say I would want it back after it's been stood immobile collecting dust and industrial pollution on the unprotected paintwork.

7 minutes ago, R1200R said:

 

Can't say I would want it back after it's been stood immobile collecting dust and industrial pollution on the unprotected paintwork.

Yes but it will probably arrive with a brand new engine that actually works.