Skoda who produce and register a fraction of the cars VW do going to get the Co 2 average emissions then with the Mild hybrid 1.0 and 1.5 TSI DSG,s and bigger petrol plug ins.   VW free to flog the more expensive e-Up if production of those continues. 

All very strange when you try PSA EV's and taller, heavier ones with bigger tyres get more range than lower, smaller, lighter on narrower tyres.

 

They really need to be getting tested in groups where they are not drafting each other.

 

?

Are they rolling along while you are singing a song and re-cooperating for longer when the going is downhill because they are heavier and getting up slopes just as efficiently or near enough?

 

He is the very man that should be able to put up the scores on the doors, i can not actually figure it out yet.

I would be checking tyre pressures as well as noting tyre sizes before starting comparisons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 September, 20205 yr by e-Roottoot

 

The Brakes make the car stand on it's nose at slow speed. Real care needed or someone will be ramming your rear hard.

The range is achievable and when ECO is chosen the AC is not a dead parrot as the heating is not not available.

There is the 'massage telling you it is 'limited'.  I have not yet been able to tell what it no longer does.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 September, 20205 yr by e-Roottoot

 

0-60 officially 7.6 seconds.  0-62 officially 8.1.  Actually, try it.

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, e-Roottoot said:

what a rubbish car!

 

 

@TonyTonic

There is a member on here with one who might be best placed to say if the car is rubbish or not.

?

Have you had a drive in one?

 

 

 

Edited 3 October, 20205 yr by e-Roottoot

I have asked in the comments section if he has checked the tyre pressures of the e-208 & then the e-Corsa before commenting on the dynamic handling.

Waiting to see his reply. 

I am surprised that he prefers the Sports seats of the e-208 as he is a bit of a chunky monkey like me and the e-208 seats in the GT were not comfy and held me tight in the wrong places when driving a long distance.

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 October, 20205 yr by e-Roottoot

Got a friend who's just purchased a Corsa-e over the e-208..   just waiting for delivery.   Would be interesting to compare notes George.

@skomaz

Loving driving mine.  Just handles so well other than at the absolute max speed on some corners but then that would be at 35 mph higher than the NSL for that type of road,

then it can skip sideways a bit.  Tyre pressures are important.

There is a lot of weight down low and the car corners almost flat without body roll and the Michelin Primacy 4 are quite a hard tyre.

(I have winter tyres and wheels to put on but not quite ready for those yet while there can still be nice sunny warm days and nice roads to drive.)

 

It has a few characteristics and it was cold early this morning and i just happened to choose rear heated windscreen and mirrors and front demist and heated seat and steering wheel.

The car decided i could not have all of them as likely too much load on the battery so until i put off the screens / mirrors i could not have the Seat and steering wheel heated. The interior glass & mirrors were clear anyway.

 

As to the brakes, i hardly ever touch them other than coming to a complete halt and if i do because needs must they are fantastic as are they in the other PSA EV vehicles i have driven.

Maybe some Demonstrators / Media cars need some driving in of the brakes.

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 October, 20205 yr by e-Roottoot

He maybe does not know Mazda but he will know about Fords of old and Ford / Mazda co-operation which finished in 2015.

Mazda got on with doing an EV and getting to market quite likely because not held back by ford.

 

Note the Steaming up side windows very much still an issue with many  EV's as it has been for a long time with ICE vehicles.

He forgot to switch it on, but even when some are on in ECO they are not great.

'Use your mirrors and drive with Due Care & attention and you would notice something was up.'

They really do need efficient de-misting / AC that does not need to be off to get any usable range between charging points.

 

Then when you are at charging points and sitting in the car you might well want Wind Deflectors so the car is not steaming up if not using AC while charging and it is raining,

A damp interior with a parked up EV not plugged in or heating while it gets icy is going to be having jack frost interior windows that need defrosting and then drying off as frosty days and nights happen maybe day after day.

 

 

 

Edited 16 October, 20205 yr by e-Roottoot

@e-Roottoot this is something that I had not considered. For me it's another argument for a phev. A little bit of burning old dinosaurs to warm up and demist efficiently and switch back to ev for much efficient driving.

 

Edit:

I do his show. Adds a bit of normality to presenting instead of scripted guff.

Edited 16 October, 20205 yr by MarkyG82

Not too much of an issue charging at home and plugged in and heating (drying out). And airing the car or even on a charger, but today is damp here and I am going shop to shop and in and out the car for short hops, so windows down a bit as and heated seat on and steering wheel and the car will need aired inside later.  If you have long rainy days that needs considered.  Luckily full heat on in my car has it roasting in minutes. 

Edited 16 October, 20205 yr by e-Roottoot

55 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

Note the Steaming up side windows very much still an issue with many  EV's as it has been for a long time with ICE vehicles.

He forgot to switch it on, but even when some are on in ECO they are not great.

'Use your mirrors and drive with Due Care & attention and you would notice something was up.'

They really do need efficient de-misting / AC that does not need to be off to get any usable range between charging points.

 

Then when you are at charging points and sitting in the car you might well want Wind Deflectors so the car is not steaming up if not using AC while charging and it is raining,

When I'm rapid charging the Leaf, I turn AC and heating (if required) to maximum to clear damp air and mist. It doesn't affect charging speed because the battery can receive less than what the charger is capable of delivering from ~40% onwards anyway. That will last vast majority of Leaf's rapid charger hop range. 

 

But I agree. It seems to be a solved problem in ICE cars but somehow for range, EV cars don't run the AC automatically, making demisting a manual toggle. 

28 minutes ago, MarkyG82 said:

For me it's another argument for a phev. A little bit of burning old dinosaurs to warm up and demist efficiently and switch back to ev for much efficient driving.

The problem with some PHEV is that it burns dino juice for heating even if you have the range to do your thing plus ample heating. It doesn't have the hardware to drive on pure electric mode in all weathers.

 

ICE is not as efficient as a proper heater neither it is as efficient at moving the car, it's a very compromised engineering to fit into a car. The root of the problem is that petrol/diesel are not a ready-to-use form of energy. Doing energy conversion in massive heating complex or power plants give the best efficiency. Whenever you scale things down you have to make compromises. 

 

What my wife does is turn on pre-conditioning when she's getting ready. When she goes out to the car, it's nice and toasty. Then toggle the demist if required. As EV's iterate through revisions, I'm sure we'll see more and more efficient AC+heating units that will allow automatic demisting. 

 

 

I was listening to Robert's latest news episode last night and I agree. Hybrids were relevant up to ~2017. Now we should be looking at pure electric for vast majority of cars. I think car industry is 3-5 years behind what is needed, UK charger network is 2-4 years behind. 

Am I missing something here? If your car mists up, put on the Air Con and it will clear. Damp car - put on the Air Con and it dries out (due to Air Con dehumidifying feature). So most people drive around with Air Con on Auto, so misting up is not a problem.

 

I don't see misting up as an EV vs ICE issue, both types do it and the solution for both is the same - run the Air Con.

I really need to investigate the charger situation for my usual long journeys. Local trips are home charger stuff as has been the case for all EVs.

 

What would you suggest for someone who still needs occasional (2-3/month) long trips with little ability to charge at final destination (other than 3 pin)? Tempted by the enyaq but struggling to convince myself of the charging situation.

13 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

As EV's iterate through revisions, I'm sure we'll see more and more efficient AC+heating units

I don't share your confidence in that.  Sounds a bit like those vague statements about how "a huge breakthrough in battery technology is just around the corner".

 

Electric heating is already - and always has been - 100% efficient, and I imagine electric A/C systems are pretty close to 'as good as it gets'. Fundamental physics/thermodynamics limitations get right in the way of "I'm sure we'll see more and more efficient..."

3 minutes ago, MarkyG82 said:

I really need to investigate the charger situation for my usual long journeys. Local trips are home charger stuff as has been the case for all EVs.

 

What would you suggest for someone who still needs occasional (2-3/month) long trips with little ability to charge at final destination (other than 3 pin)? Tempted by the enyaq but struggling to convince myself of the charging situation.

I don't have an EV (yet) so do not have real world experience, but I have considered exactly that scenario. My conclusion is that all of these types of journeys end up with an overnight stay (for me) and 12-16 hours on a 3-pin plug will give a useful boost in range. For example an Enyaq would charge at about 7mph (https://ev-database.uk/car/1279/Skoda-Enyaq-iV-60) on a 3-pin plug so a full overnight charge would add 84-112 miles of range. That and any range left when arriving at destination should see you right to get to a rapid charger.

If you are staying at a hotel, book one with a destination charger.

2 minutes ago, Wino said:

I don't share your confidence in that.  Sounds a bit like those vague statements about how "a huge breakthrough in battery technology is just around the corner".

 

Electric heating is already - and always has been - 100% efficient, and I imagine electric A/C systems are pretty close to 'as good as it gets'. Fundamental physics/thermodynamics limitations get right in the way of "I'm sure we'll see more and more efficient..."

 

For resistive heating this is true. A lot of EVs are using heat pumps now that have an efficiency of up to 400% - 1Kw of electric gives 4Kw of heat. I only know the basics of the physics involved, so am taking the manufacturers at their word. Heat pump is standard on ID.3, ID.4 and Jag i-Pace. It is an option on Enyaq. Tesla use heat pumps on Model Y and are due to fit that tech. to Model 3 next year. Heat pumps are likely to get cleverer in the future as big corporations get behind development.

21 minutes ago, Wino said:

I don't share your confidence in that.  Sounds a bit like those vague statements about how "a huge breakthrough in battery technology is just around the corner".

 

Electric heating is already - and always has been - 100% efficient, and I imagine electric A/C systems are pretty close to 'as good as it gets'. Fundamental physics/thermodynamics limitations get right in the way of "I'm sure we'll see more and more efficient..."

Current crop of EV's doesn't automatically run AC and heat-pump heating at the same time due to efficiency. Previously this was not needed as the ICE provides heat and AC is a separate unit. 

 

On my Leaf, running heating only draws ~0.5kw of power to have hot air blowing. Running AC only draws similar amount. AC+heating draws around 1.5kw. I put it down to Leaf switching the heat pump to AC mode and use resistive heating. In another words, re-hash of ICE car climate control topology, replacing ICE with resistive heaters. 

 

So with more research done on EV efficiency, it should be possible to improve AC+heating efficiency by using only the heat pump. A heatpump that can both pump out moisture and provide heat. 

 

35 minutes ago, MarkyG82 said:

I really need to investigate the charger situation for my usual long journeys. Local trips are home charger stuff as has been the case for all EVs.

 

What would you suggest for someone who still needs occasional (2-3/month) long trips with little ability to charge at final destination (other than 3 pin)? Tempted by the enyaq but struggling to convince myself of the charging situation.

I'm in the same boat. I run Leaf as local car, I got a Skoda Octavia for those long trips and my commute if wife needs the Leaf. I'm looking to replace the Skoda with an EV to reduce my commuting cost and also doesn't hinder us on long trips. 

 

My conclusion is that only a Tesla is able to do this. No matter what range your EV can offer, you'll always want a reliable and convenient charging infrastructure. Reliable and convenient combined is difficult to find with current charging infrastructure. You can have reliability with Instavolt, but their locations are not usually convenient, in business parks or gyms. You can have convenient trunk road charging with Ecotricity Electric Highway, but their chargers are known to have problems on CCS cars (all modern EV's). I stop at motorway services what I usually find? 6-12 chargers for Tesla, 1-2 for everyone else by Ecotricity, of which only 1 is CCS. 

 

Wife have now agreed a Model Y is a capable replacement to the Octavia in terms of internal space. I'm now waiting for Giga factory Berlin to start producing them for UK market. 

3 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

 

 

Wife have now agreed a Model Y is a capable replacement to the Octavia in terms of internal space. I'm now waiting for Giga factory Berlin to start producing them for UK market. 

Same boat, wife wants SUV and waiting until I can see Model Y in person. 

15 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

My conclusion is that only a Tesla is able to do this. No matter what range your EV can offer, you'll always want a reliable and convenient charging infrastructure. Reliable and convenient combined is difficult to find with current charging infrastructure. You can have reliability with Instavolt, but their locations are not usually convenient, in parks or gyms. You can have convenient trunk road charging with Ecotricity Electric Highway, but their chargers are known to have problems on CCS cars (all modern EV's). I stop at motorway services what I usually find? 6-12 chargers for Tesla, 1-2 for everyone else by Ecotricity, of which only 1 is CCS. 

 

Wife have now agreed a Model Y is a capable replacement to the Octavia in terms of internal space. I'm now waiting for Giga factory Berlin to start producing them for UK market. 

 

Until Ionity, FastNed and the like become more prevalent here, I agree. I'm also waiting for Model Y but pricing may be a bit too much for me. ID.4 and Enyaq (with heat pump) are also in the frame as these may be more affordable.

By rights, none of these belong in this discussion as they are all north of £40k, let alone sub 30K 

@Luckypants

If you are just in and out the vehicle in the damp weather with damp or wet clothes and just doing short distances between stops like no more than a mile between them the AC on dries out nothing, same as it has always been with vehicles.

If you leave someone in the car that can be trusted to touch nothing like the gear shifter then the car can be left at on with heating / cooling / AC / Heated seats or what ever on and the car is not sitting idling. 

 

PS

You can book a Hotel / Motel with EV Chargers and get there and some Trades Person has their non electric works van parked in one, or more people have parked and are there before you and do not move from the space and are still there in the morning when you are going.

 

The staff might do nothing and some will not even have the Customers Reg Number if they are a Customer.

 

eg. 

Premier Inns...... 

 If you are there there are chargers near you can go to.   Just not the Forth Crossing Visitor Centre chargers, 

unless finally they are operating. 

Looks like not then, and this is a place they really are needed for those on long journeys North / South where people need Rapid Chargers.

Thank goodness for the likes of Kinross Park & Ride.

 

If passing through Perth or Dundee the EV charging has been taken seriously.

Edited 16 October, 20205 yr by e-Roottoot