Can I tow this caravan with a Vrs Diesel

[Vallumlj]

Hi I am looking to buy a bailey caravan and the MTPLM is 1483 and the the kerb weight of the car is 1465 so this will be a 101% limit. Will I be ok to tow this?

 

Car is a 67 plate skoda vrs tdci hatchback

 

Thanks

 

 

[logiclee]

It's legal but not really recommended.

 

All the major caravan clubs and the caravan manufacturers recommend that the MTPLM of the caravan weighs no more than 85% of the cars kerbweight for inexperienced towers.

Up to 100% is acceptable for very experienced towers.

If you go ahead you will also need to keep a close eye on the nose weight as the Octavia has a relatively light 75kg limit and some modern caravans struggle to get that low.

 

I'm not sure what the FL Octavia's gross weight is but if it's plated at over 2017kg you will need a B+E licence for that outfit.

 

Saying all that I would have no problem with that outfit, it would be safe with carefull loading and towing as long as you know what you are doing. If this is your first caravan I would find something lighter, perhaps have a look at Lunar's.

 

Lee

[SashaGrace]

It depends on when you passed your test also, just for info if you passed after Jan 2013 that combo would be illegal as the MTPLM of the van is higher than the cars kerbweight. As above, if you passed between 1997 and 2012, you will be fine provided the gross weight of the car is below 2017kg, otherwise you will need a B+E. I have an Estate with DSG and I’m sure my car has a higher gross weight than that. It’s not an ideal match though, so unless this is the only van you can find that you like, I would try and find a lighter one. 

[logiclee]

27 minutes ago, SashaGrace said:

It depends on when you passed your test also, just for info if you passed after Jan 2013 that combo would be illegal as the MTPLM of the van is higher than the cars kerbweight. As above, if you passed between 1997 and 2012, you will be fine provided the gross weight of the car is below 2017kg, otherwise you will need a B+E. I have an Estate with DSG and I’m sure my car has a higher gross weight than that. It’s not an ideal match though, so unless this is the only van you can find that you like, I would try and find a lighter one. 

 

Hi Sasha,

 

From my understanding from 1997 B+E was removed from the standard licence this gave just B to anyone passing their car test.

 

This initially limited the licence holder to an outfit with a Maximum Allowable Mass of 3500kg. A further restriction was that in any outfit less than 3500kg the MTPLM of the trailer could not weigh more that the kerbweight of the towing vehicle.

Changes were made in 2013 that removed the second restriction. They did not make towing above 100% illegal, they actually took that restriction away from B licence holders and made it less restrictive.

 

I've been pulled a couple of times thanks to passing a VOSA check point on my way to the coast. Licence restrictions and Plated weights are all they seem to be interested in although some outfits are clearly not safe.

 

DVLA 

Changes in Jan 2013

Drivers who tow trailers

If you want to tow a trailer weighing more than 750 kilograms when the combined weight of the towing vehicle and trailer is more than 3,500 kilograms you will have to pass a further test in category B+E.

You will then be able to tow trailers up to 3,500 kilograms. To pull a heavier trailer you must pass a C1E test.

If you got your driving entitlement before 19 January 2013 you will retain it. There are no further changes to rules on towing trailers.

 

Lee

Edited 6 May, 2018 by logiclee

[SashaGrace]

Yeah, it’s that way around, I always forget which way around it is. I have added D1 and D1E entitlements on my license which automatically adds the E entitlement to my B license so I’m good. The level of restrictions in place is too much of a faff to handle so I am glad I have taken the extra tests. Previous wordings on the DVLA have been ambiguous at best but you can’t use that defence in court as ignorance won’t cut it. It’s always handy to have an E entitlement if you are towing anything and it’s not overly complex or expensive.

[SWBoy]

And if you passed your test before 1995 (I passed mine in 1976) you also have C1 & C1+E - until you're 70 - meaning you can drive anything up to 7.5 tonne with a trailer of up to 4.5 tonne (maximum train weight of 12 tonne).

[logiclee]

35 minutes ago, SashaGrace said:

Yeah, it’s that way around, I always forget which way around it is. I have added D1 and D1E entitlements on my license which automatically adds the E entitlement to my B license so I’m good. The level of restrictions in place is too much of a faff to handle so I am glad I have taken the extra tests. Previous wordings on the DVLA have been ambiguous at best but you can’t use that defence in court as ignorance won’t cut it. It’s always handy to have an E entitlement if you are towing anything and it’s not overly complex or expensive.

 

They caused confusion from the very beginning by using the term MAM and then trailers use MTPLM and vehicles GVW and GTW.

 

And then different manufacturers use different definitions of Kerbweight and Skoda have actually changed their definition and now do not include a driver allowance.

Then we have Mass in Service on the V5 which is different to Kerbweight and Kerbweight isn't a plated weight and can depend on options.

 

The whole thing is really messy and it's easy to see why the 100% limit was dropped in 2013.

Edited 6 May, 2018 by logiclee

[SkodaVRS1963]

I'm not sure any of you have answered the OP's question; " Will I be ok to tow this?"

 

The answer to the question is yes; the 184bhp VRS diesel will pull that caravan without breaking sweat.

 

If it's legal, whatever, is a different matter.

[Vallumlj]

Thanks for all The advice we do really like this caravan and anything lighter is another 3k more. 

 

I think being 101% might not be good for insurance I might call them next week and see if I can see a vosa person to ask them.

[logiclee]

3 minutes ago, SkodaVRS1963 said:

I'm not sure any of you have answered the OP's question; " Will I be ok to tow this?"

 

The answer to the question is yes; the 184bhp VRS diesel will pull that caravan without breaking sweat.

 

If it's legal, whatever, is a different matter.

 

I believe I attempted to in the first reply.

 

Having enough power and torque was never in doubt but a caravan is different to most trailers, it's high sided, has a high centre of gravity and is limited on loading options. and that is where the 85% and 100% recommendations come in for safety.

 

"Will I be ok to tow with this" I took to include the safety side as well as the power side. You don't want it on it's side on the M5.

 

It will be a legal outfit as long as you have the correct licence but with a 101% match and trying to reach a 75kg noseweight limit it's only really for experienced towers and well over what is advised for new comers.

And that is the advice of The Caravan Club, The Camping and Caravanning Club and the National Caravan Council who represent the manufacturers.

 

Lee

[geordiebloke]

I'm sure when the law changed, it says that you can now tow up to the maximum tow weight as specified by the manufacturer, which in this case is 1600kg @12% or 1800kg @8% according to the brochure.

If you want to be sure, do a towsafe check - if youre a member of the camping and caravan club, they used to do these for free via their website.

[logiclee]

15 minutes ago, Vallumlj said:

Thanks for all The advice we do really like this caravan and anything lighter is another 3k more. 

 

I think being 101% might not be good for insurance I might call them next week and see if I can see a vosa person to ask them.

 

It is legal if your licence covers it.

 

You may want to ask the seller what the ex-works nose weight is. 

 

The Two big questions are. Do you have B+E entitlement and have you towed caravans before?

 

Lee

Edited 6 May, 2018 by logiclee

[logiclee]

15 minutes ago, geordiebloke said:

I'm sure when the law changed, it says that you can now tow up to the maximum tow weight as specified by the manufacturer, which in this case is 1600kg @12% or 1800kg @8% according to the brochure.

If you want to be sure, do a towsafe check - if youre a member of the camping and caravan club, they used to do these for free via their website.

 

You can legally tow up to the cars plated weights if your licence covers that.

 

But although that maybe safe for a builders trailer with low sides and low center of gravity it is mostly not true for caravans hence the additional recommendations for safety.

 

Manufacturers quoted weights relate to the ability to pull away on the quoted incline, not the ability to contain a snake at 60mph on the motorway.

 

Lee

Edited 6 May, 2018 by logiclee

[Adcooper]

Yes you can tow it no problem as long as your license allows. 

 

Edited 6 May, 2018 by Adcooper

[logiclee]

11 minutes ago, Adcooper said:

Yes you can tow it no problem as long as your license allows. 

 

 

What does that work out at? 106%?

 

Do you have a problem with nose weight?

[logiclee]

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/advice-and-training/choosing-a-vehicle/match-your-car-and-caravan/

[geordiebloke]

1 hour ago, logiclee said:

 

You can legally tow up to the cars plated weights if your licence covers that.

 

But although that maybe safe for a builders trailer with low sides and low center of gravity it is mostly not true for caravans hence the additional recommendations for safety.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, when I was going caravans the most I towed at was 91% but then tried to reduce it by putting our kit in the car, therefore reducing the payload. The point I was trying to make is that in the eyes of the law and therefore the insurance, thus is deemed safe even in the eyes of the experienced caravanner it would be foolish.

The OP hasn't actually said if he has towed before, or if this is his first caravan

Quote

 

 

Edited 6 May, 2018 by geordiebloke
Spelling

[Adcooper]

14 minutes ago, logiclee said:

 

What does that work out at? 106%?

 

Do you have a problem with nose weight?

 

Normally get on ok with the nose weights as now use a alko jockey wheel with the scales. Actually easier after changing to a twin axle. 

 

No idea how to work out % but within the 1800kg limit and tows better than our others (single axles up to 1500kg).

 

If I’m going some distance I do put some of the weight in the rear foot wells and back seats though to help with the weight balance. 

 

I will say although legal it’s not my recommendation.

[Vallumlj]

Hi No I have not done my B+E test and have never towed before. I do try 40k a year but never with a caravan.

 

Thanks for the replies

[Corrida15]

Hi, I also have a vrs tdi hatch (manual) and bought my first caravan 2 years ago, an Elddis Avante with a max weight of 1395kg. I too was concerned at the weight ratio as a novice. I always try to keep caravan as light as possible, loading as much in car as i can (which is easy with the huge boot!). Nose weight is usually about 72kg which is perfect. I have found the octavia to be a fantastic tow car, always feels stable and safe, i just always take it easy with caravan on and it has never been a stressful experience. The engine power comes into play when climbing long steep gradients (such as M2 out of Belfast), it just cruises the whole way up in 5th gear without dropping speed. I would also usually get between 30-33mpg towing which i think is decent enough. Choosing a caravan that you like and suits your needs best are so important, so i would say if the Bailey ticks all the boxes then go for it, just be sensible with the loading and towing and you wont regret it!

 

[logiclee]

8 hours ago, Vallumlj said:

Hi No I have not done my B+E test and have never towed before. I do try 40k a year but never with a caravan.

 

Thanks for the replies

 

So if you do not have B+E you need to be very careful with plated weights.

 

The MTPLM of the caravan is 1483kg

 

You need to look at the plated GVW of your Octavia. If it's more than 2017kg then you don't have the licence to drive this outfit.

 

I bought my first caravan at 17, I'm now 49, that's 32 years worth of towing more or less everything from small 2 berths to the largest twinaxles with everything from small hot hatches to full size 4X4's. I also have two builders trailers and used to have a car transporter. In the mid 90's I also used to run trailer reversing and loading courses for the Camping and Caravaning Club and organise regional events.

 

My current outfit is 98% but o be honest a new caravanner with no experience loading or towing and considering an outfit at 101% on a vehicle with a relatively low nose weight limit fills me with a little bit of dread.  I strongly advise you look at something lighter and check that exworks nose weight, a lot of new caravan layouts struggle to achieve 75kg without actively loading the rear end which can effect stability.

The 85% recommendation for newcomers from all the major players is there for a reason. While I don't suggest you can't go over that 101% is pushing what I would do with all my experience.

 

Lee

Edited 7 May, 2018 by logiclee

[SashaGrace]

I would agree with the above, having towed vans with cars before within the 3500 kg limit and then beyond after adding my E entitlement I would be wary of a heavy van as a first tow. You don’t need stress when towing, and the last thing you want is to buy the van and find the towing very stressful and twitchy as you’ll spend more than £3k upgrading your license and upgrading the car. I would recommend adding an E entitlement anyway as you know you’ll be licensed to tow it and you’ll have some practice with an instructor. Remember that you have a provisional E entitlement, but the person in the passenger seat must have taken an E entitlement test, not just have grandfather rights. If my partner wanted to tow an outfit over 3500 kgs MAM, I could supervise from the passenger seat, but my father couldn’t as he only has grandfather rights, he hasn’t taken an E entitlement test.

[pastiche]

Quote

Tail wagging dog come to mind

 

[flybynite]

I'll add to what is said above, going over 100% having never towed is a bit of an ask. A heavy trailer is a whole different matter to a large touring van when the wind gets up or you get passed by an 18-wheel barn door. Power to pull it isn't everything you need to worry about.

 

One thing that has not been mentioned up to now is to make sure your tow bar is either factory-fitted or correctly coded for stability.

 

If you are pushing the limits for towing you don't want the car fighting you, and if not properly coded some of them will.

[themanwithnoaim]

13 hours ago, flybynite said:

 

One thing that has not been mentioned up to now is to make sure your tow bar is either factory-fitted or correctly coded for stability.

Abso-Fn-lootly, factory fitted towbar adds so much more with the Trailer Stability Control but, getting the correct entitlement is essential.

 

The other's are pussyfooting around a bit, thinking they're being nice so, I'll give it to you straight.

 

Get your E entitlement

Get a smaller caravan

Get lots if experience of towing

 

& most importantly, don't kill your family & god knows whom else on holiday-maker packed roads