How bad are budget tyres?

[Ootohere]

@KeteCantek

I doubt that Continental had you driving on anything with new Continental Premium Contact 2 ContiSeal tyres as SEAT or others might have as OEM fitment.

Continental should know about crap tyres as they produce some.

Just a liability even from new if there is any moisture on the road surface.

 

 

Edited 26 December, 2018 by Skoffski

[KenONeill]

On 26/12/2018 at 22:49, KeteCantek said:

I am fortunate to experience a vision zero event by Continental tyres where we get to drive around in cars shod with different tyres.

 

Summary is, a worn ( 2mm is left) set of premium tyres is worse (slightly in dry and significant in the wet) than a new set of budget tyres. This is mostly down to thread depth. 

 

End of the day, buy good tyres if you can. However, if you can't, then at least be aware of the limitations and adjust driving style to suit especially in inclement weather. 

 

 

Key word here is "Continental" I think; it's an open secret that that Contis have a harder substrait below 3mm left.

[KeteCantek]

I don't remember the exact tyre models we tested but they weren't the low end for sure. The difference was mainly in the wet, under hard braking. Anything else it was actually hard to tell the difference. 

[widdershins]

I think an important factor to think about is whole life cost, not just up front cost.  The absolute bottom of the barrel tyres might cost less £££s over the counter, but if to travel 20,000 miles they need to be replaced once and use 10% more fuel are they really a saving?  An hour or two of online research in a spare evening should turn up some tyres with decent reviews and a moderate price that would prove the cheaper tyre in the long run.

 

When I need tyres I don't wed myself to one brand, I look at all the reviews of the respectable names current tyres that are available, then I check out the prices from various sources, online dealers, Costco, local indie tyre dealer that serves the local garages and taxi firms, etc.  There are always offers and deals to be had if you shop around and are flexible with the make and model you choose.  You can probably with only an hour or two of homework on the internet or phone turn up a deal on some mid- high brand tyres that have good reviews and with local fitting for the same price as cheapo Chinese ones from Kwik Fit.

[Octy0GG]

On 27/12/2018 at 01:01, KenONeill said:

Key word here is "Continental" I think; it's an open secret that that Contis have a harder substrait below 3mm left.

I can see why a company might do this - good grip when new (tyre tests seldom if ever test performance near end of life) combined with longer life thanks to a harder sub-strait towards the end of tyre life.

 

Genuinely do not know if this is true or not, but if it's an open secret it's one of which I have been blissfully unaware. If it is verifiable then it needs to be exposed, if it is not a verifiable fact then this should be given equal exposure, particularly in light of the safety / brand reputation implications.

 

Also if it can be shown to be the case it then begs the question, is anyone else using the same tactic?

 

 

 

[DavidY]

On 27/12/2018 at 01:01, KenONeill said:

Key word here is "Continental" I think; it's an open secret that that Contis have a harder substrait below 3mm left.

 

I guess it gives people longer to replace their tyres if they don't check their tread depth often, so it may average out as safer to have some tread on a harder compound than to have 2mm arrive sooner?

[camelspyyder]

I really liked the OEM Conti PremiumContact2 on my low powered Toledo.

 

Quiet, comfortable and reasonable grip dry or wet, BUT, when they got down to 3mm the wet grip vanished.

 

I should have chucked them out right then at 26000 miles, but kept them on through an increasingly precarious winter.

 

I agree a brand new budget would likely have been a better bet than that legal, but lethal, premium tyre.

 

 

How many different versions of that tyre were there though?  For instance when I go on blackcircles, I often see identically branded tyres with different ratings like A C 71 or C E 68.

 

Why is this? Are manufacturers constantly changing the construction or compound but marketing the tyre as the same one?

 

 

Edited 30 December, 2018 by camelspyyder

[widdershins]

Probably, how many times have Skoda changed the Fabia?  Aside from the big facelifts, smaller parts, entertainment systems, etc change sometimes between major facelifts. 

 

Tyre manufacturers will be constantly working on improving compounds, grip, etc.  Some changes will be minor, such as a small compound change, or change in sipe depth, and will be integrated into current production.  Minor changes will most likely keep the same familiar product name to save marketing costs and product confusion.  "It's new and improved??  It looks the same as the old ones on it just now??" 

 

Some however will be major changes like a tread pattern change, those will be the things people can most readily identify and understand as being different, and those will get the new names and the big marketing push trumpeting their "new and improved" "performance leading" tyres.

[KeteCantek]

My takeaway from the experience is that budget tyres are fine if you really have to. But keep in mind the limitations, drive safer and you'll probably be OK. Same applies to worn tyres regardless of brand. 

 

World's best tyres won't be safe when tailgating and if weather conditions are bad and one drives like a demon possessed. 

[Russ77]

5 minutes ago, KeteCantek said:

My takeaway from the experience is that budget tyres are fine if you really have to. But keep in mind the limitations, drive safer and you'll probably be OK. Same applies to worn tyres regardless of brand. 

 

World's best tyres won't be safe when tailgating and if weather conditions are bad and one drives like a demon possessed. 

 

With the best will in the World, you can drive as carefully as you like but it only takes that one time where something unexpected and/or completely out of your control where you need to steer/brake hard to avoid a hazard on a damp/wet road and inferior tyres are more likely to let you down.

My wife barely does 3000 miles per year, she's a slow, hesitant driver and never pushes her luck (I sometimes get REALLY frustrated when I'm in the passenger seat next to her lol) and there was a strong temptation to put some budget tyres on her C-Max but seeing as she transports our daughters around in it I went for some mid-range Avons (about £60 each I think).

 

A couple of months ago she'd been on an uncharacteristic longer trek to an out of town shopping center.  On the way home she was travelling at the speed limit on a 50mph dual-carriageway, the road was a little damp, traffic was fairly light and a completely impatient woman pulled out from a turning way past the point you'd expect someone to when they had seen you coming along the road (she said the look on the woman's face was "Oh F*ck, I shouldn't have done that!!").  My wife anchored up, ABS kicked in and thankfully the woman got a wriggle on so there was no collision.

 

I drove on the same stretch of road on the way home from work and saw the skidmarks her car had left on the road.  Had I gone with the budgets the outcome might have been different.  I obviously have no way of knowing this for certain but for peace of mind it was definitely worth another £80

[KeteCantek]

22 minutes ago, Russ77 said:

 

With the best will in the World, you can drive as carefully as you like but it only takes that one time where something unexpected and/or completely out of your control where you need to steer/brake hard to avoid a hazard on a damp/wet road and inferior tyres are more likely to let you down.

My wife barely does 3000 miles per year, she's a slow, hesitant driver and never pushes her luck (I sometimes get REALLY frustrated when I'm in the passenger seat next to her lol) and there was a strong temptation to put some budget tyres on her C-Max but seeing as she transports our daughters around in it I went for some mid-range Avons (about £60 each I think).

 

A couple of months ago she'd been on an uncharacteristic longer trek to an out of town shopping center.  On the way home she was travelling at the speed limit on a 50mph dual-carriageway, the road was a little damp, traffic was fairly light and a completely impatient woman pulled out from a turning way past the point you'd expect someone to when they had seen you coming along the road (she said the look on the woman's face was "Oh F*ck, I shouldn't have done that!!").  My wife anchored up, ABS kicked in and thankfully the woman got a wriggle on so there was no collision.

 

I drove on the same stretch of road on the way home from work and saw the skidmarks her car had left on the road.  Had I gone with the budgets the outcome might have been different.  I obviously have no way of knowing this for certain but for peace of mind it was definitely worth another £80

Absolutely. It's all probabilities. Main difference between budget and good tyres are in the wet emergency braking (big difference). Worn set of Continentals at limit actually stops worse (about 7metres iirc) in the wet from 50mph than a new budget too. 

 

If one can afford, always use decent tyres, better still change when it gets to below 3mm thread left. 1.6mm is actually pushing it in the wet. 

[Captain Sisko]

My Focus came with some budget tyres  - Event and Landsail (might have been one other) It wasn't too bad when I inititally bought the car, then in the wet you could feel you couldn't push it

It got to the point where it felt a bit nervous to really push it in the dry too

 

I got a set of Continental Premium Contact 5 put on as for the size there was nothing in it for Mid Range to High End. She certainly handles better now.

The last I bought a set was Nexens for my Fiesta and they were great. 

 

Some posts here have the right advice buying budget - just do your research then you can get bargain performers.  

[26DIPP]

Google Youtube for tyre tests where they test the cornering and braking as well as avoidance manouvers.

The budget tyres are less predictable in all conditions, but in extreme conditions they are extremely hard work for the ABS and ESP and often even then the electronics are not capable of keeping the car under control.

 

[cheezemonkhai]

On 27/12/2018 at 01:01, KenONeill said:

Key word here is "Continental" I think; it's an open secret that that Contis have a harder substrait below 3mm left.

 

It isn’t really a secret. German tread change recommendations are 2 or 3mm. Yes the law is now the Europe wide 1.6, but insurance will make it your fault if you have a bang and they consider it too low.

 

The 3mm harder compound was so that people didn’t accidentally end up below their limits, with the possibility of a very long single journey.

 

FWIW most companies make some duff tyres from time to time. I just got rid of some bridgestones that were great in the dry but dangerous in the wet.

 

mid range and up will be fine as long as you’re driving sensibly.

 

plus a mid range with 6mm is better than a premium with 2-3mm I would imagine.

Edited 12 May, 2019 by cheezemonkhai

[KeteCantek]

2 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

 

It isn’t really a secret. German tread change recommendations are 2 or 3mm. Yes the law is now the Europe wide 1.6, but insurance will make it your fault if you have a bang and they consider it too low.

 

The 3mm harder compound was so that people didn’t accidentally end up below their limits, with the possibility of a very long single journey.

 

FWIW most companies make some duff tyres from time to time. I just got rid of some bridgestones that were great in the dry but dangerous in the wet.

 

mid range and up will be fine as long as you’re driving sensibly.

 

plus a mid range with 6mm is better than a premium with 2-3mm I would imagine.

You are absolutely right especially in the wet. A new budget will be better than a worn premium definitely. Maybe the secret is to use a mid priced tyre to 3mm and change. Probably cost the same overall, sacrificing ultimate grip in dry but you get more consistent wet performance

[Ootohere]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 13 May, 2019 by Skoffski

[Mad Dog]

Late post, but FWIW, I drive a stock Fabia VFRS Diesel up here on the West coast of Scotland. I have a "push on" expeditious driving style.

135k miles to date on my second VRS.   I have tried many Premium brands in this time.   The only ones I will consider now are Pirelli P-Zero Neros, or Conti Sport/Contact, Premium Contact. Preferably the latter.

 

I find their wet grip excellent (but deffo not below 3mm, as per previous posters comments).  Whilst I do, of course, make allowances for wet roads, I still drive quickly in the wet...well it is wet the majority of the timeand I'm totally comfortable with it.  What I most like about these tyres is their predictability...   I usually drive at or just below the grip limit when alone on quiet roads, and they will  slide sometimes - but consistantly...I know when they'll let go, and how much to back off to get the grip back, and  thats why I use them. I find there is nothing more useless on the road that tyres with ultimate grip, that just let go, and you cant regain grip immediately.  Different on a closed cct,    but that's a different situation.

[gregoir]

I used 5 or 6 sets of Barum Bravuris (made by Continental ) on my 2l diesel Octavia, with sport suspension. Yes, all 4 tyres were replaced each time. The rears only wore slightly better than the fronts.Excellent grip and handling on my regular enjoyable 50 mile Peak District commute. The 3mm cut off was always apparent on the,when wet, roundabout at the Hassop book shop. The diesel torque would then overwhelm the grip, producing bad understeer. Then my choice, to nurse it for a while or to replace fronts/rears at 3/4.5 mm.

[Wench]

Well I’m impressed this is still going on.

 

i had to go for the budget tyres in the end, I really couldn’t afford anything else. I don’t drive a huge amount of miles 

[MarkyG82]

11 hours ago, Wench said:

Well I’m impressed this is still going on.

 

i had to go for the budget tyres in the end, I really couldn’t afford anything else. I don’t drive a huge amount of miles 

 

What brand did you go for?  As has been highlighted here there are many budget brands performing at different levels.

 

As with a lot of things, Go for the best you can afford at the time.

[KenONeill]

11 hours ago, Wench said:

i had to go for the budget tyres in the end, I really couldn’t afford anything else.

I always wonder about this. I mean a 205/55R16V from Barum or Toyo tends to be about £60 fitted, balanced and new valve.

[Wench]

9 hours ago, MarkyG82 said:

 

What brand did you go for?  As has been highlighted here there are many budget brands performing at different levels.

 

As with a lot of things, Go for the best you can afford at the time.

I don’t know what brand they are without looking, basically whatever the garage could supply the cheapest.

 

 

[gregoir]

 Budget tyres are not necessarily the best buy. As said above, known brand , mid range can be a better buy all round. I'd want to know that I was not turning my car into a death trap. At least check the tyre reviews before purchase. A general point not aimed at Wench.

[Nathanio]

I'm replacing my PS4 on the front of my car next Saturday. (£94 each with voucher code on black circles last night). 

 

I looked up when they were fitted. They were fitted on the rear at 68,000 miles. Moved to the front at 74,000 miles. Car has just past 94,000. 26,000 miles out of a set of UHP tyres, 10,000miles out of that on a commute with 42 roundabouts and I don't drive slow. I drive to get to my destination in optimum time. 

 

They cost around £105 on average each. Having got 8000 miles out of a set of landsail tyres that came new on the car, it is much better VFM. Landsail was £65 a corner and did 8000 miles or £0.008125/ mile. PS4 is £0.00403/mile.....

[MarkyG82]

1 hour ago, Nathanio said:

it is much better VFM. Landsail was £65 a corner and did 8000 miles or £0.008125/ mile. PS4 is £0.00403/mile.....

 

This is what I try to tell people when asked about what tyres to get. Long term much better vfm and also better performance. Shirley it better to go with beer for a month or so and know you have safe tyres that will last.