Sportline suspension upgrade

[Esseesse200]

20 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Guess your H & R are 40mm lower than standard Superb but as the Sportline is already 15mm lower than standard the overall drop is 25mm.

Yea it’s about 25mm. lol. H&R seem to pretty accurate because they have different springs for different weights of car. There are about 5 different combinations for the superb. Petrol, diesel, 2wd, 4wd, estate, saloon 

[Markbro]

Yes H&R springs fitted to non sportline, non dcc superb whilst running on 17" wheels. No noticeable difference on ride comfort. Handing way better than original, can power through bends with confidence.  Still not 100% happy as the dampers are still too soft/bouncy which can result in reaching the end of travel of the springs on undulating roads. If you travel on mainly main roads/motorway you may never find an issue. So waiting for an unnamed member to fit koni actives to see if they remedy the problem😁 No issue on speed bumps in general, but the very short speed bumps can cause the front to bounce back down abruptly (damper issue). The benefits far outweigh any negatives though so get some on.  Also I'd say the drop on mine was between 30-35mm, it may have settled a bit over time.

[newbie69]

2 hours ago, Esseesse200 said:

Haha I’m certainly not a boy racer anymore lol. Gone are the 205gti and vx220 days. However. I spend A LOT of time in the car so it needs to feel right. It’s mapped as well lol. 
spacers for me are a cosmetic thing really and the handling differences are negligible tbh. However i think if you draw it out on paper it could make the spring a little more forgiving because there a slightly more leverage to push the spring down maaaaybe lol. 
I did it diy because I’ve always done techy stuff but the fronts are a bit tricky. Rears are easy tbh. I’ve got the whole job down to about 3hrs now on the drive without a ramp.

yes leave the original shocks in. I will upgrade shocks at some point to koni fsd/specials. 

For another opinion ask @Markbro has done springs but his was done on a non sportline so maybe worth asking him too. I do know it made a huge difference for him  

3hrs for the whole thing?? Wow, that's probably faster than a workshop    A friend of mine did them, although taking a casual approach, and he needed practically the entire weekend. I joined at some point to see the process and it didn't really seem like a 3hr job. It was mostly the struggling at different stages where we tried different approaches and a couple of unforeseen tools needed so I guess If you've done it once and have everything in place it could be quite quicker.

Out of curiosity, did you go the drive shaft bolts way or the "2x4" method to get the strut out? 

[Markbro]

Gave it a quick wash so I could post a few pics....

[shyVRS245]

5 minutes ago, Markbro said:

Gave it a quick wash so I could post a few pics....

Nice house BTW.

[Esseesse200]

2 minutes ago, newbie69 said:

3hrs for the whole thing?? Wow, that's probably faster than a workshop    A friend of mine did them, although taking a casual approach, and he needed practically the entire weekend. I joined at some point to see the process and it didn't really seem like a 3hr job. It was mostly the struggling at different stages where we tried different approaches and a couple of unforeseen tools needed so I guess If you've done it once and have everything in place it could be quite quicker.

Out of curiosity, did you go the drive shaft bolts way or the "2x4" method to get the strut out? 

Rears take about 30 mins per side For 2wd and 45mins-hour per side on 4wd.. once tools are all layed out (3 hours if you are looking for the damn socket that you lost last time lol). And fronts are around an hour per side. I used the 4x2 method and have done on the last 4 I’ve done. Only problem I had with a scirocco was the Allen key Socket on the top of the strut to hold it still to undo the top mount had seized solid and therefore stripped. Soft grip vice sorted that. I didn’t rush anything and didn’t stop for coffee/tea and biscuits 🍪 

9 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Nice house BTW.

 

14 minutes ago, Markbro said:

Gave it a quick wash so I could post a few pics....

Looking good mark 

[Markbro]

@Esseesse200 Cheers just need to sort some dampers and then maybe consider a power hike, no rush as it will be a keeper

[Esseesse200]

20 minutes ago, Markbro said:

@Esseesse200 Cheers just need to sort some dampers and then maybe consider a power hike, no rush as it will be a keeper

Yea I reckon dampers will be a next year thing now after all of this craziness. However we may well have moved to Ireland by then anyway. Letterkenny area 

Seriously consider racingline for a map when it comes to it though mark. I’d love to think I could afford to become an agen t in Ireland for them. Complete change of career lol. 

[newbie69]

4 hours ago, Esseesse200 said:

Rears take about 30 mins per side For 2wd and 45mins-hour per side on 4wd.. once tools are all layed out (3 hours if you are looking for the damn socket that you lost last time lol). And fronts are around an hour per side. I used the 4x2 method and have done on the last 4 I’ve done. Only problem I had with a scirocco was the Allen key Socket on the top of the strut to hold it still to undo the top mount had seized solid and therefore stripped. Soft grip vice sorted that. I didn’t rush anything and didn’t stop for coffee/tea and biscuits 🍪 

 

Looking good mark 

I don't disagree as repetition brings perfection really! I remember my first JB4 installation took several hours or sweating and swearing, until i figure out some tips for routing stuff through the firewall and also gaining access to the dreaded plug D. Now it's a 20-30min job max with all the tools available beforehand.

I might give it a go this summer then with all that time at home. I expect the DCC in Sport mode should be firm enough to prevent the excessive suspension travel that results in bottoming out on non DCC cars, we'll see.

First though I will go down the rear arb upgrade. It's almost a bet with myself at this point. If it's as noticeable and beneficial as in other VAG cars I've done this, and given that I drive in Sport DCC practically every time I'm alone now, it might just be all the firming the handling needs for my like.

[Esseesse200]

3 hours ago, newbie69 said:

I don't disagree as repetition brings perfection really! I remember my first JB4 installation took several hours or sweating and swearing, until i figure out some tips for routing stuff through the firewall and also gaining access to the dreaded plug D. Now it's a 20-30min job max with all the tools available beforehand.

I might give it a go this summer then with all that time at home. I expect the DCC in Sport mode should be firm enough to prevent the excessive suspension travel that results in bottoming out on non DCC cars, we'll see.

First though I will go down the rear arb upgrade. It's almost a bet with myself at this point. If it's as noticeable and beneficial as in other VAG cars I've done this, and given that I drive in Sport DCC practically every time I'm alone now, it might just be all the firming the handling needs for my like.

👍🏻 Yea the arb’s are something I've seriously considered too. Had a fabia Vrs estate for a Bit and did them on that and it was one of the best mods pound for pound I’ve done 

[newbie69]

2 hours ago, Esseesse200 said:

👍🏻 Yea the arb’s are something I've seriously considered too. Had a fabia Vrs estate for a Bit and did them on that and it was one of the best mods pound for pound I’ve done 

Funnily enough, a MkII Fabia vRS hatch was one of the cars I was talking about having such profound effect from an arb upgrade.

Mind you, I was only talking about the rear one though. Almost all VAG cars that I can think of have enough under-steer bias dialed in already that upgrading both arb's would bring them back where they started, only much stiffer.  I think the reason people see such welcome difference from doing just the rear is probably just that, that they're shifting that bias from the front to a much more neutral behavior, one that can even bring a bit of tail-happiness in the right conditions as I can personally testify 

Edited 20 April, 2020 by newbie69

[JR RS]

6 hours ago, newbie69 said:

I might give it a go this summer then with all that time at home. I expect the DCC in Sport mode should be firm enough to prevent the excessive suspension travel that results in bottoming out on non DCC cars, we'll see.

First though I will go down the rear arb upgrade. It's almost a bet with myself at this point. If it's as noticeable and beneficial as in other VAG cars I've done this, and given that I drive in Sport DCC practically every time I'm alone now, it might just be all the firming the handling needs for my like.

 

Mine (non-sportline) is lowered on Eibach Prokit, and the DCC shocks don't bottom out at all, in either of the driving modes.  Comfort mode can b a bit bouncy-happy over short pointy speed humps though.

But that's more the shock trait rather than the springs.

 

I'm strong advocate for uprated rear swaybar as they're the best bang for buck.  I had it on my previous mk2 Octavia RS - the handling was awesome.

I'm keen to get one for my Superb too, however I don't know how this will impact/hinder the DCC behavior.

I'm assuming it will b fine, I just haven't had a chance to read up owner reviews who've got DCC n upgraded the rear swaybar.

[Bejam]

So a question for those of you in the know. If I want to improve basic handling/cornering on a non-DCC Sportline, should I be changing the anti roll bar/s or lowering the springs? What does each modification do, please?

[newbie69]

12 hours ago, JR RS said:

 

Mine (non-sportline) is lowered on Eibach Prokit, and the DCC shocks don't bottom out at all, in either of the driving modes.  Comfort mode can b a bit bouncy-happy over short pointy speed humps though.

But that's more the shock trait rather than the springs.

 

I'm strong advocate for uprated rear swaybar as they're the best bang for buck.  I had it on my previous mk2 Octavia RS - the handling was awesome.

I'm keen to get one for my Superb too, however I don't know how this will impact/hinder the DCC behavior.

I'm assuming it will b fine, I just haven't had a chance to read up owner reviews who've got DCC n upgraded the rear swaybar.

The DCC in particular won't impact the swaybar's operation. The only thing is as you're lowered on Eibachs, you might need to get drop links too as with the non-standard height, you're preloading the arb in a different way than the one it's supposed to be running in. That is not to say you're going to have issues for sure, that depends how lower you have gone and how stiffer the arb is. Given that you've not gone into extreme solutions I am guessing there's good chance the setup will work on stock drop links too. In the past, I have run uprated springs and arb while keeping stock drop links in other cars and had no issues.


 

4 hours ago, Bejam said:

So a question for those of you in the know. If I want to improve basic handling/cornering on a non-DCC Sportline, should I be changing the anti roll bar/s or lowering the springs? What does each modification do, please?

To keep it short without entering into the technical bit very much: The rear ARB upgrade is all about cornering and body roll improvement and in our case, by shifting the behavior of an under-steer friendly car towards a more neutral one. If you enjoy fast corners and quick direction changes it will put a huge smile on your face as you'll find that the car behaves more as one unit with the rear being much more willing to follow the front, even allowing the occasional stepping out of the tail when certain conditions are met, while essentially not sacrificing anything else in terms of comfort (except maybe some extreme cases of undulated roads). In the majority of driving you won't be able to tell if it's there or not. The upgrade basically does only one thing but it does it best, better than any set of springs would ever be able to do it.

Springs on the other hand, address several issues at the same time: looks, firmness, dynamics, and the effect is noticeable everywhere: in accelerating, braking and cornering as the result is a firmer car overall with less tendency to bounce back and fourth at every change of inertia. However this won't make the rear-end become more lively/willing or the turn-in that much different apart from the car feeling more solid in general. And as always with lowering, there are some factors that are introduced and need considering such as: reduced ground clearance, increased firmness. To some they are not an issue so it's fine, to others they can be a problem.

Both options affect handling but in a different way and to a different extent. So the question is what exactly would you like to change on your car and what would you be ok to keep as is?  The way your post was phrased i would be inclined to say you need an arb rather than upgraded springs but this can be confirmed if you provide more info on what you're after.

 

Edited 21 April, 2020 by newbie69

[Bejam]

6 hours ago, newbie69 said:

Both options affect handling but in a different way and to a different extent. So the question is what exactly would you like to change on your car and what would you be ok to keep as is?  The way your post was phrased i would be inclined to say you need an arb rather than upgraded springs but this can be confirmed if you provide more info on what you're after.

 

 

Thanks @newbie69. Really useful. I'd like to just make the car wallow less when I chuck it into corners or round roundabouts. At the mo, it's a bit floaty and, while it grips absolutely fine on the way out of the bend, I'd like to remove some of the floaty feeling.

 

In a perfect world, I'd achieve that without lowering the car - I'm otherwise quite happy with the way it looks.

 

I'd also like to not compromise too much on motorway comfort.

 

Cake. eat it, y'know 🙂 Thanks in advance, Ben.

[newbie69]

1 hour ago, Bejam said:

 

Thanks @newbie69. Really useful. I'd like to just make the car wallow less when I chuck it into corners or round roundabouts. At the mo, it's a bit floaty and, while it grips absolutely fine on the way out of the bend, I'd like to remove some of the floaty feeling.

 

In a perfect world, I'd achieve that without lowering the car - I'm otherwise quite happy with the way it looks.

 

I'd also like to not compromise too much on motorway comfort.

 

Cake. eat it, y'know 🙂 Thanks in advance, Ben.

Well in that case you'd be better of upgrading the rear arb as it focuses only on the single aspect you're after improving: the body-roll during cornering, without affecting overall firmness or ride height.

It's even wrong to try and counter body-roll with stiffer springs. To get the same result in body-roll reduction as you'd get with an upgraded rear arb you'd need much stiffer springs that would make the car almost undriveable.

Hopefully I should be able to proceed with that upgrade myself soon and be able to report on its success...

Edited 21 April, 2020 by newbie69

[Bejam]

4 minutes ago, newbie69 said:

Well in that case you'd be better of upgrading the rear arb as it focuses only on the single aspect you're after improving: the body-roll during cornering, without affecting overall firmness or ride height.

It's even wrong to try and counter body-roll with stiffer springs. To get the same result in body-roll reduction as you'd get with an upgraded rear arb you'd need much stiffer springs that would make the car almost undriveable.

Hopefully I should be able to proceed with that upgrade myself soon and be able to report on its success...

Thanks @newbie69. Which ARB are you planning to buy?

[newbie69]

Just now, Bejam said:

Thanks @newbie69. Which ARB are you planning to buy?

It was going to be either the H&R or the Eibach, they usually have good results on VAG cars. But from my search a few months back the Eibach seems to be available only in front+rear sets which I am not interested in, and even one supplier which was able to provide me just the rear Eibach, the price was almost double than the H&R, and they are essentially offering similar performance as they are both "entry level" upgrades that work well on otherwise stock cars. So I guess it's going to be the H&R, I had saved the correct model number somewhere and I need to find it again. Around 250 eur roughly iirc.

[Esseesse200]

On 20/04/2020 at 13:36, Markbro said:

@Esseesse200

1 hour ago, newbie69 said:

It was going to be either the H&R or the Eibach, they usually have good results on VAG cars. But from my search a few months back the Eibach seems to be available only in front+rear sets which I am not interested in, and even one supplier which was able to provide me just the rear Eibach, the price was almost double than the H&R, and they are essentially offering similar performance as they are both "entry level" upgrades that work well on otherwise stock cars. So I guess it's going to be the H&R, I had saved the correct model number somewhere and I need to find it again. Around 250 eur roughly iirc.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254269080452

Edited 21 April, 2020 by Esseesse200

[newbie69]

Update: Just ordered the H&R rear arb  , to heII with procrastination. I had this upgrade in mind since before even picking the  car up, it's cheap, easy to install (I think, haven't done the installation on AWD cars and not sure whether I'll need to remove more parts than usual) and huge bang for your back in the cornering department.

So I guess stay tuned for the findings of its impact...


 

1 minute ago, Esseesse200 said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254269080452

Watch out as the quoted front & rear set is not the correct one for the 4x4 models. According to H&R's catalog the model numbers for the 2.0 TSI 4x4 (both hatch and estate) are:

33784-4   - FRONT only

33784-5   - FRONT & REAR

33851 HA5 - REAR only    <<< That's what I got





 

[Esseesse200]

Just now, newbie69 said:

Update: Just ordered the H&R rear arb  , to heII with procrastination. I had this upgrade in mind since before even picking the  car up, it's cheap, easy to install (I think, haven't done the installation on AWD cars and not sure whether I'll need to remove more parts than usual) and huge bang for your back in the cornering department.

So I guess stay tuned for the findings of its impact...


 

Watch out as the quoted front & rear set is not the correct one for the 4x4 models. According to H&R's catalog the model numbers for the 2.0 TSI 4x4 (both hatch and estate) are:

33784-4   - FRONT only

33784-5   - FRONT & REAR

33851 HA5 - REAR only    <<< That's what I got





 

Oooosh steady. Cheers mate. 

[Bejam]

1 hour ago, newbie69 said:

Update: Just ordered the H&R rear arb  , to heII with procrastination. I had this upgrade in mind since before even picking the  car up, it's cheap, easy to install (I think, haven't done the installation on AWD cars and not sure whether I'll need to remove more parts than usual) and huge bang for your back in the cornering department.

So I guess stay tuned for the findings of its impact...


 

Watch out as the quoted front & rear set is not the correct one for the 4x4 models. According to H&R's catalog the model numbers for the 2.0 TSI 4x4 (both hatch and estate) are:

33784-4   - FRONT only

33784-5   - FRONT & REAR

33851 HA5 - REAR only    <<< That's what I got





 

 

Excellent - looking forward to hearing your findings. Here’s a link in the UK:

 

https://www.akstuning.co.uk/shop/home/981-hr-rear-anti-roll-bar-25mm-golf-mk7-r.html
 

 

[newbie69]

1 hour ago, Bejam said:

https://www.akstuning.co.uk/shop/home/981-hr-rear-anti-roll-bar-25mm-golf-mk7-r.html

Yeah, that's the one 

I was doing my homework watching humble mechanic's guide on upgrading the rear arb on his Golf R on YT to prepare all the tooling and replacement fasteners needed, and came across his review.

Same story as in every other VAG, he's blown away by how much of an improvement it brought, he even said he's going to be doing this on every non-RWD car he gets from now on , I have no reason to think it's going to be any less impressive on the Superb so I'm rather excited at the moment.

[penguin17]

11 hours ago, newbie69 said:

Just ordered the H&R rear arb 

Any reason in particular for a 25mm bar over say a 22mm? 

 

Im still on the fence about an Eibach pro kit or rear 22mm Whitline ARB. 

 

[newbie69]

39 minutes ago, penguin17 said:

Any reason in particular for a 25mm bar over say a 22mm? 

 

Im still on the fence about an Eibach pro kit or rear 22mm Whitline ARB. 

 

Not really. Those numbers don't tell me much anyway as they can't provide a clear stiffness comparison. I went mostly by my previous experience on arbs of different brands and some reviews I could find on the Golf Mk7, I'm 99% sure all options on this would provide an improvement in any case.

I had the Whiteline one on the Fabia vRS many years ago, worked fine, but I remember some people switching to the H&R which was stiffer and liking it more. In general, Whiteline seems to be trying to keep their products more close to stock behaviour than say H&R which usually offers a more pronounced upgrade.
In this case, the Eibach and the H&R options both feature a 25mm rear tube (guessing hollow) and I wanted to try the Eibach one initially but I definitely didn't want a set, and the price of the rear alone was over 400 for no apparent reason. That left me with either the H&R option or the 034 Motorsport so I went with the former which was more readily available.