Start stop and DSG

[Kenai]

4 minutes ago, BoxerBoy said:

 

ps - I was ecstatic to find that the Kodiaq has a proper Hill Hold auto brake - unlike any car I’ve driven including a Q5 - that simply keeps the brakes on with the clutch disengaged when you come to a stop. Then you simply press the GO pedal when it’s time to take off again. It’s absolutely fantastic and is how all cars should be in the 21st century.

 

 

This sounds like Hold Assist, rather than Hill Start Assist. The hill function only lasts 2 seconds as it's purpose is to give you time to swap your foot between pedals without rolling back momentarily on a hill. It also only activates on certain gradients. 

 

Hold Assist is nothing to do with hills and simply holds the brake on without you needing to keep your foot on the pedal. 

[Ootohere]

@Kenai That will be 'Autohold' you are describing then,

& not Hill Hold Assist or Hill Hold Control or any such. Or what ever currently Skoda / VW / SEAT or Audi are calling it.

[Kenai]

Just now, Offski said:

@Kenai That will be 'Autohold' you are describing then,

& not Hill Hold Assist or Hill Hold Control or any such. Or what ever currently Skoda / VW / SEAT or Audi are calling it.

I think they all call it something different :p

 

Point being, it's a different system to hill start assist with a different purpose. 

[gRoberts]

45 minutes ago, BoxerBoy said:

I don’t like holding the brake lamps on for a long time. Especially in the dark.

 

I just find it uncomfortable to sit with my foot on the brake. Since the handbrake is always pretty good, I just happily sit in neutral with the handbrake on.

 

The fun part, as you say is when it goes wrong and I've heard the Kodiaq's system is amazing

 

I'll work it out but have visions of screwing it up and ending up down the hill

 

cheers

[flybynite]

20 hours ago, Oharse said:

Not sure if I explained well enough. The start stop works great and the difference in pressure to activate it works well. The problem is that when lifting the brake pedal the car will start then do one of two things -

 

1. instantly pull away and start moving in 1st gear

2. stay stationary for 2/3 seconds before realising it is in gear and it pulling away and start moving.

 

Wondered if others were the same?

 

Yes I get the same, and I think it will be down to hill-hold, called Hill Start Assist in the manual (but still HHC ??). You might not think you are on a hill but it may be enough that it kicks in to stop you rolling back. When it kicks in (even if SS is disabled) it holds the brake for a short while after brake release while you get on the throttle. 

 

From the manual: "Hill Start Assist (HHC)
HHC allows you, when driving on slopes, to move your foot from the brake pedal to the accelerator pedal without having to use the handbrake.
The system holds the brake pressure produced by the activation of the brake pedal for approx. 2 seconds after the brake pedal is released.
The HHC is active from a 5% slope if the driver's door is closed. HHC is always active on slopes when in forward or reverse start off." 

 

90% sure this is what you are getting - perfectly normal

Edited 20 November, 2018 by flybynite

[Scotty72]

11 hours ago, gRoberts said:

 

I just find it uncomfortable to sit with my foot on the brake. Since the handbrake is always pretty good, I just happily sit in neutral with the handbrake on.

 

The fun part, as you say is when it goes wrong and I've heard the Kodiaq's system is amazing

 

I'll work it out but have visions of screwing it up and ending up down the hill

 

cheers

For some reason in an auto (read DSG) putting the lever into neutral just doesn't seem natural and never has, I mean it should do given all the manual cars I've owned and driven.

I did remember the first auto I was dumped in unprepared was an old bosses 3 series some 20 years ago. I was asked to shift it round my then work tiny car park as we always had to double park. I managed to do it all with the handbrake still engaged lol I was wondering what the smell was never did let on to the boss only to say, oh sorry I think I forgot to put the handbrake back on when I moved your car.. Giving it time to cool down

[gRoberts]

19 minutes ago, Scotty72 said:

For some reason in an auto (read DSG) putting the lever into neutral just doesn't seem natural and never has, I mean it should do given all the manual cars I've owned and driven.

I did remember the first auto I was dumped in unprepared was an old bosses 3 series some 20 years ago. I was asked to shift it round my then work tiny car park as we always had to double park. I managed to do it all with the handbrake still engaged lol I was wondering what the smell was never did let on to the boss only to say, oh sorry I think I forgot to put the handbrake back on when I moved your car.. Giving it time to cool down

 

I have only really ever driven two automatics. A renault scenic from about 30 years ago and my mums Audi A6 (with electronic handbrake.)

 

All of the driving (in an auto) I have ever done has either been motorways or short journeys that involved very little stopping, especially on hills. 

 

Worryingly, I live at the top of a series of large hills here in the northeast, gradients around 18%+ (great for cycling) and the handbrake on my manual is fine.

 

In terms of the shifting between drive and neutral (or any other gear) in an automate, seems clunky. That's probably why you don't like doing it? 

 

I can guarantee one day I will have the handbrake on, start pressing down the accelerator, let go of the handbrake and... roll backwards down a hill

[Ootohere]

2 pedals and can change gear automatically but the DSG's are Automated Manuals which is the beauty of them.

Obviously there are Automatics that are also tiptronic but they are automatics and not automated manuals.

[Scotty72]

15 minutes ago, gRoberts said:

 

I have only really ever driven two automatics. A renault scenic from about 30 years ago and my mums Audi A6 (with electronic handbrake.)

 

All of the driving (in an auto) I have ever done has either been motorways or short journeys that involved very little stopping, especially on hills. 

 

Worryingly, I live at the top of a series of large hills here in the northeast, gradients around 18%+ (great for cycling) and the handbrake on my manual is fine.

 

In terms of the shifting between drive and neutral (or any other gear) in an automate, seems clunky. That's probably why you don't like doing it? 

 

I can guarantee one day I will have the handbrake on, start pressing down the accelerator, let go of the handbrake and... roll backwards down a hill

 I think you have it.. its a bit clunky.

 

Actually a couple of weekends ago I got Skoda Nav'd (VAG Nav'd you could also say) and we were taken down a single track road in the middle of Hampshire on a trip for my wife. I had a fantastic moment coming down quite a steep hill with a blind bend only to have a car coming up the hill cause a complete road block. So I'm forced to reverse up the steep hill because this person doesn't understand the law of physics or have any observation or common courtesy  to move into the overtaking slot literally just up and to their right. My car really accelerated from rest to moving backwards quite violently in reverse such that I got some moaning off my wife. So watch out for that one. Its not as if I mashed the loud pedal either.. again I think it was DSG deciding it was engaging the clutch with zero finesse.

Edited 20 November, 2018 by Scotty72

[ords]

17 hours ago, Plantman said:

 

Same with mine. Exactly as you describe sometimes it will start creeping after starting which means it will be a smoother pull away after the stop / start has happened.

 

Other times (randomly) it doesn't seem to wake up and will sit there without creeping. It is those times that if I pull away too quick I will get a bit of a jolt as the car realises I want drive and it engages the clutch abruptly.

 

Holding / feathering the brake pedal to prevent stop / start activating can be useful for a quick get away as others have described, though my concern is, is this allowing the clutch to slightly engage and as a result causing undue clutch wear?

 

I have got into the habit of pressing the disable start / stop button on junctions or lights that I know I will require a quick reaction from the car.

 

I like the start / stop idea but sometimes it needs to read the mind of the driver

 

 

 

As others have said, if you release the brakes it starts then does nothing for a couple of seconds. But if you go straight from the brake pedal to the accelerator it starts & immediately pulls away smoothly. That's my experience

[JD52]

4 minutes ago, ords said:

As others have said, if you release the brakes it starts then does nothing for a couple of seconds. But if you go straight from the brake pedal to the accelerator it starts & immediately pulls away smoothly. That's my experience

 

If you leave the DSG to it's own devices, the startup can be a bit of a jump and not smooth at all.

 

[ords]

10 minutes ago, JD52 said:

 

If you leave the DSG to it's own devices, the startup can be a bit of a jump and not smooth at all.

 

Not in my case

[Oharse]

5 minutes ago, ords said:

Not in my case

 

Mine's pretty smooth - it has done 35k and just had the oil changed. it's just the unpredictability that is a shame on an other wise great gearbox.

 

[imikk3]

23 hours ago, Oharse said:

Not sure if I explained well enough. The start stop works great and the difference in pressure to activate it works well. The problem is that when lifting the brake pedal the car will start then do one of two things -

 

1. instantly pull away and start moving in 1st gear

2. stay stationary for 2/3 seconds before realising it is in gear and it pulling away and start moving.

 

Wondered if others were the same?

 

Same here...

 

1, I find it quite annoying especially when you are in a start/stop traffic when you stop the car, engine stops then you take your foot off the brake couple of seconds later, car starts and moves straight off like when you are in a slingshot (OK not like that but you get what I mean) then you have to hit the brake again avoid crashing into the car in front.. Didn`t notice this when I stop for more than 10-15 seconds so could it be the software thinks that the car needs moving quickly after a few second stop and it`s just catching you by surprise?  I just turn it off unless I can see that the traffic will stop for a while. 

 

2. I don`t normally wait until the car moves itself, I just step on the accelerator and the car moves off as soon as I touch the pedal. Sometimes smoothly but sometimes a bit jerky.. the car moves off then it feels like the clutch disengages for a friction of a second then it moves again. No matter which driving mode I`m in

 

I learnt to live with it by now

[ords]

1 hour ago, Oharse said:

 

Mine's pretty smooth - it has done 35k and just had the oil changed. it's just the unpredictability that is a shame on an other wise great gearbox.

 

Agree

[KevC_Derby]

My DSG is smooth and predictable.

Stop/Start is a load of garbage in real life. Mine is turned off as soon as I plug in my phone to the car.

[jst_at_home]

On 19/11/2018 at 11:36, SashaGrace said:

You get used to it in the end, you start to read the traffic in front of you and get ready to release the brake pedal in time for it to start up and work itself out.

Two things I've noticed with mine.

 

1. If you don't want to sit with the brake lights on to keep the engine stopped in stop/start mode, if you go into neutral on the DSG (handbrake on of course), the engine remains stopped.

 

2. With the stop/start operative and engine stopped at traffic signals for e.g., if you move the steering wheel slightly, the engine will re-start meaning you can time things ready to set off when the lights change rather than waiting for the engine to start when you release the brake.

 

John

[Ootohere]

^^^ This will be advice suiting some cars.

 

With 'Autohold'  or an E-Brake you can sit without the Brake Lights on in some VW Group cars, and some have the Brake Lights work with 'Autohold' on.

Some drivers seem to not know what the car they are driving has.  On or off brake lights when stationary.

[gRoberts]

12 minutes ago, Offski said:

^^^ This will be advice suiting some cars.

 

With 'Autohold'  or an E-Brake you can sit without the Brake Lights on in some VW Group cars, and some have the Brake Lights work with 'Autohold' on.

Some drivers seem to not know what the car they are driving has.  On or off brake lights when stationary.

 

I generally dislike sitting with my foot on the brake, it may be all irrational, but nonetheless, it's always on my mind.

 

When driving a manual, I'm into neutral and handbrake on when ever I have to stop for more than a few seconds. Not sure why, whether it be I don't like having my bright lights glaring into the drivers behind me, the feeling of my foot on the brake pedal, or habit from the day so not trying to warp my cheap discs lol.

 

I've driven automatics, but not my own and in the situations I will when I receive it, which makes me think it's going to be like starting from scratch :( 

Edited 21 November, 2018 by gRoberts
can't spell...

[Ootohere]

I do not like sitting with brake lights on not only because the Highway Code in the UK tells you not to on prolonged stops, or advises,

but because those that do bug me.

But then now many are not sitting foot on brake pedal, it is Autohold has the rear brake lights on.

Hard to know who is doing what now in front of you as the technology changes for the worse in some cases and Manufacturers could not care about the UK Highway Code.

[gRoberts]

2 minutes ago, Offski said:

I do not like sitting with brake lights on not only because the Highway Code in the UK tells you not to on prolonged stops, or advises,

but because those that do bug me.

But then now many are not sitting foot on brake pedal, it is Autohold has the rear brake lights on.

Hard to know who is doing what now in front of you as the technology changes for the worse in some cases and Manufacturers could not care about the UK Highway Code.

 

Then you have the brake pedal switch failures, which cause the brake lights to stay on constantly, even when they're doing 80+ down the motorway

[Scotty72]

8 minutes ago, gRoberts said:

 

Then you have the brake pedal switch failures, which cause the brake lights to stay on constantly, even when they're doing 80+ down the motorway

My seat leon cupra 20vt had its brake light switch fail and leave them permanently on.. Trouble is there was an anti numpty interlock which cut the throttle if it detected both pedals being pressed by design. You can  imagine it made you look like a right idiot with the throttle cutting in and out while trying to drive along normally with this fault in place. Fixed under warranty of course.

[Stonker]

On 20/11/2018 at 19:59, KevC_Derby said:

My DSG is smooth and predictable.

Stop/Start is a load of garbage in real life. Mine is turned off as soon as I plug in my phone to the car.

Same here for me. Only time I disengage the S/S is at known locations where I know I will be sat waiting longer than say 20 30 seconds.

But on the flip side I hate it when the car in front, parks up, then a few moments later creeps forward, stops and keeps on repeating this. As my car detects the car moving forward and restarts my car, then again and again. I think I will have to try staying stationary for longer to prevent my car restarting over and over next time this occurs.

[Plantman]

14 hours ago, jst_at_home said:

Two things I've noticed with mine.

 

1. If you don't want to sit with the brake lights on to keep the engine stopped in stop/start mode, if you go into neutral on the DSG (handbrake on of course), the engine remains stopped.

 

2. With the stop/start operative and engine stopped at traffic signals for e.g., if you move the steering wheel slightly, the engine will re-start meaning you can time things ready to set off when the lights change rather than waiting for the engine to start when you release the brake.

 

John

 

This is interesting. I've not actually tried that. Assumed as soon as you lift you foot from the brake it restarts the car

I know it doesn't in Park but I will try this later in Neutral.

 

 

[Scotty72]

1 minute ago, Plantman said:

 

This is interesting. I've not actually tried that. Assumed as soon as you lift you foot from the brake it restarts the car

I know it doesn't in Park but I will try this later in Neutral.

 

 

I'm the same.. I'm new to DSG and stop start I too will try this Neutral trick