Long vs Short Ratio Gearbox

[duck]

I would be interested to hear from anyone that has owned or driven VRS's with the long ratio (FJW?) and later short ratio gearbox.

 

I believe the lower gear ratios are the same with just 5th and 6th being different?

 

I am curious what you thought of them and which you preferred, does the longer ratio box make the car feel sluggish in the higher gears? do you have to change down when in 6th to get decent acceleration at motorway speeds?

 

I am interested as thinking about getting an LSD and not sure if I should stick with my current short ratio box or take this opportunity to switch to the longer ratio box.

 

Thanks 

[RobLarby]

I had a short ratio in mine and never had any problems

 

I've heard a lot of people say that the jump from 3rd to 4th in the longer ratio boxes is quite drastic and makes the car feel slower.

[StevesTruck]

I've had the shorter ratio in an Ibiza PD130 and the longer ratio in a Fabia VRS. I do a lot of miles, without really doing lot of motorway, and I don't hang about when I'm driving. Short answer, the tall box is the one to have, it widens out the power band really well and lets you spend more time on the gas rather than the clutch. It's one of the things that made the fabia so much nicer to drive that the Ibiza. 

 

I wouldn't want the shorter ratio again. You spend all your time changing gear to the extent that it slows you down, even on a fairly technical track I could feel it holding the car back.

 

On both boxes, 2nds a little too high to use for pulling away really, but first is so short on the shorter box that you're hardly off the clutch before you're back on it. Once you get to 70 on the short box, it revved higher than I'd want a diesel to be sat at. The longer ratio doesn't really get into top until 50, and is happy at any legal speed (and some illegal ones) in 5th. If you're so inclined, the short box has pretty much run out of revs in top at 105, the tall box is still pulling well and wanting to go at 115. 

 

The tall box will pull from 70 in top fine, off the top of my head, 70 is about 2k revs, so the start of it boosting. If you really want to hoon it from 70, you'd be better in 5th. 

 

As long as you've got good tyres and the wheels aligned, I've never felt the need to put an LSD in with a bit over standard power. 

Edited 10 December, 2019 by StevesTruck

[corndog]

i have a 5 speed and 6 speed long ratio FJW

 

obviously quite different feel in the first place and 5speed is pd100 mapped vs pd130 mapped but the 6 speed is, as StevesTruck said - more time in gear

 

I do think the long ratio is a bit less useful for cruising in 30-50mph areas when you might want to have lowish RPM for fuel economy, I feel like there is more shifting gears around those speeds. Usually don't go into 6th until 60mph on the dial. 80mph in 6th is about 2000rpm!

 

I think if you have bigish power and fairly low end torque the long ratio could be better but unsure which i'd pick on a mapped car given the choice

 

[StevesTruck]

Yeah, I wouldn't disagree with you on that. At 30, I can never quite decide which gear to be in on the taller box.

 

The five speed isn't bad at all, if I didn't do the distance I do, I'd probably be quite happy with one.

[softscoop]

I had a 53 reg vRS that had the long ratio box.

 

70mph was at 1800 rpm in 6th gear. It certainly made for relaxed cruising and it never felt like it was too high geared.

 

Years ago on here there was a spreadsheet comparing the ratios of each gearbox code. I wonder if I can find it anywhere

[sepulchrave]

1 hour ago, softscoop said:

I had a 53 reg vRS that had the long ratio box.

 

70mph was at 1800 rpm in 6th gear. It certainly made for relaxed cruising and it never felt like it was too high geared.

 

Years ago on here there was a spreadsheet comparing the ratios of each gearbox code. I wonder if I can find it anywhere

 

...sounds fascinating.

[Breezy_Pete]

https://workshop-manuals.com/skoda/fabia-mk1/power_transmission/gearbox_0a8/technical_data/identification_of_the_gearbox/identification_characters_aggregate_assignment_ratios_capacities/

 

?

 

[duck]

Thanks for the replies, very interesting stuff.

 

I think the general consensus is long ratio is the way to go.

 

SteveTruck - I am running a GTB17/56 with 350lbs torque and feel an LSD would be handy now, if I ever decide to go for a slightly bigger turbo I think it would become essential.

 

Softscoop - that spreadsheet would be very useful, I will also have a search for it.

 

Wino - thanks for the link, I am guessing the low ratio box is the HDS 

[softscoop]

The spreadsheet contained exactly the same info as that link above 

[barbusg60]

Guys,

Is there an easy way of knowing which gearbox you have?

Cheers,

Rob

[Breezy_Pete]

^ Yep, look at the data sticker in the boot or service book. In blue square on this one:

[retro]

I have the long ratio in my mapped VRS, motorway speeds are very relaxed and it can easily speed up to overtake even in 6th.

 

I do find that around 40-60mph I'm changing gears a lot on B roads that are hilly as it ends up so low down in the revs that it can't quite carry the speed on slight inclines and sometimes on the flat depending on the speed limit so I change down.

 

2nd gear I have got to 60mph but it was revving to 5k (didn't even realise until I looked down) but 3rd gear just seems to last forever!

[StevesTruck]

On 11/12/2019 at 16:26, duck said:

Thanks for the replies, very interesting stuff.

 

I think the general consensus is long ratio is the way to go.

 

SteveTruck - I am running a GTB17/56 with 350lbs torque and feel an LSD would be handy now, if I ever decide to go for a slightly bigger turbo I think it would become essential.

 

Softscoop - that spreadsheet would be very useful, I will also have a search for it.

 

Wino - thanks for the link, I am guessing the low ratio box is the HDS 

 

If you're going for more power, I'd say definitely go for the taller box

[Damo152003]

I had the taller box i loved it on the motor way pulled like a train. 

[duck]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

I have decided long ratio is the way to go and have sourced a long ratio box with lsd which should be mine soon. 

[Carlston]

The short ratio gearbox would be good for fitting oversized tyres such as 185/65R15, 195/55R16, and 205/45R17.

Edited 16 December, 2019 by Carlston

[StevesTruck]

On 11/12/2019 at 20:20, barbusg60 said:

Guys,

Is there an easy way of knowing which gearbox you have?

Cheers,

Rob

 

Do 70mph in 6th, if it's a bit under 2000rpm, it's the tall one, if it's more like 3000rpm, it's the short one. 

[duck]

2200rpm at 70mph on speedo, 2400rpm at 80mph on speedo is the HDS low ratio box

[retro]

70 mph on my Speedo is just under 1800rpm

[Carlston]

How much higher is 6th gear on the high ratio gearbox compared to the medium ratio gearbox? Answer 7.7% higher

How much higher is 6th gear on the medium ratio gearbox compared to the low ratio gearbox? Answer 8.6% higher

How much higher is 6th gear on the high ratio gearbox compared to the low ratio gearbox? Answer 17.0% higher

 

FJW and FSM are the highest ratio gearboxes

HDS is the middle ratio gearbox

JNC is the lowest ratio gearbox

 

FJW/FSM is 7.7% higher than HDS

 

HDS is 8.6% higher than JNC

 

FJW/FSM is 17.0% higher than JNC

 

High ratio gearboxes are 38.3mph/1,000rpm

 

Medium ratio gearboxes are 35.6mph/1,000rpm

 

Low ratio gearboxes are 32.8mph/1,000rpm

 

Calculations based on 195/55R15 tyres

Edited 17 December, 2019 by Carlston

[Carlston]

11 hours ago, retro said:

70 mph on my Speedo is just under 1800rpm

 

That must be the high ratio gearbox, so either FJW or FSM which both have the same gearing.

[Carlston]

12 hours ago, duck said:

2200rpm at 70mph on speedo, 2400rpm at 80mph on speedo is the HDS low ratio box

 

Sounds like the JNC gearbox. Your revs are too high for the HDS gearbox if those really are your speeds at those revs.

 

You need to use GPS to get an accurate speed reading. The speedo will often overread by up to 5%.

 

If you also have smaller outside diameter tyres than 195/55R15 such as 185/60R14 then you may well have the HDS gearbox.

 

The 6th gear on the HDS gearbox is 8.6% higher than the 6th gear on the JNC gearbox. So a 5% overreading speedo combined with smaller 185/60R14 tyres (I've used 195/55R15 in my gearing calculations) would mean that you really do have an HDS gearbox and not the lower ratio JNC gearbox.

Edited 17 December, 2019 by Carlston

[duck]

I stated speedo reading so that a gps would not been needed for a quick comparison.

 

VRS std wheels and tyres are 205/45 R16.

 

My service book says HDS transmission code, I have owned the VRS for 10 years and pretty sure it has never been replaced.

 

When I have the gearbox off the car I will be checking it for codes to see what it is.

[Carlston]

16 minutes ago, duck said:

I stated speedo reading so that a gps would not been needed for a quick comparison.

 

VRS std wheels and tyres are 205/45 R16.

 

My service book says HDS transmission code, I have owned the VRS for 10 years and pretty sure it has never been replaced.

 

205/45R16 has about the same outside diameter as 195/55R15.

 

At first, it did sound like you had the later JNC gearbox, but taking into account the overreading speedo and the HDS transmission code in your service book, it really does look like you have what it says on the tin, ie. the HDS gearbox.

Edited 17 December, 2019 by Carlston