DSG Reset (Basic Settings)

[Donweather]

On 28/02/2023 at 16:41, toot said:

@Donweather?

What actual engine and DSG do you have?

 

& do you actually shift it down to M1 when just crawling along in slow traffic or when coming to a halt?

 

Many if in D with different engines / DSG in slow crawling traffic will move the shifter to S so that it might not hunt up and down from 1st to 2nd, but then location location location, 

and circumstances.

Sportline 206TSI (280 BHP). DQ250 DSG. 
 

I downshift from 2nd to 1st when the car is still moving. It’s known as compression braking. Letting the engine do the work. 
 

if the gearbox isn’t designed to do this then VAG need to not allow it in manual/paddle mode. 
 

one has to remember that the 1st gear ratio on the DSG isn’t as small as a manual gearbox (ie I never changed down from second to first in my last manual Octavia vRS as you’d end up being ejected through the windscreen due to the manual gear box low first gear ratio). 
 

it’s not like it redlines when I downshift. Might go from 2000rpm in second to 3500-4000rpm in first. 

[Ootohere]

@DonweatherIs this at a speed something under 10 mph that you are doing this compression braking? 

When the DSG does allow it because VW allowed it to you usually know 1st was the wrong gear to go down to unless you were almost stopped,

but then that is maybe just with me. 

[Donweather]

11 minutes ago, toot said:

@DonweatherIs this at a speed something under 10 mph that you are doing this compression braking? 

When the DSG does allow it because VW allowed it to you usually know 1st was the wrong gear to go down to unless you were almost stopped,

but then that is maybe just with me. 

Sorry I don't look at the speed, more so the RPM.  Also I work in km/hr.  But it would be above 10 mph to answer your question.

[Ootohere]

I imagine you are actually off the accelerator at the point you manually shift a DQ250 down to 1st. 

[Donweather]

Just now, toot said:

I imagine you are actually off the accelerator at the point you manually shift a DQ250 down to 1st. 

Well if you're compression braking then that kinda answers your question in itself doesnt it.

[Ootohere]

Exactly,

Actually i new the answers, and know the gearboxes and engines rather well. 

[j caff]

Just use the brakes for the last little bit and leave the box in second, it's not like you're driving an 18 wheeler with a heavy load. You're really doing things to a dsg box that it wasn't designed to be doing. There is a thing called mechanical sympathy. 

Edited 2 March, 2023 by j caff

[EnterName]

On 05/01/2023 at 08:14, Donweather said:

DSG replaced today. Picked car up from dealer and driving car home I downshifted from 2nd to first whilst going down a hill and guess what……..crunch went the gear box. Turned around and drove car straight back to dealer and voiced my anger and frustration on the problem still being there even after a brand new DSG. 
 

Dealer couldn’t tell me exactly what they replaced (technicians had left for the day). Wasn’t sure if it was just the mechatronics or that and the clutch packs. They will let me know tomorrow. 
 

so getting sick and tired of this DSG issue and just reconfirms why I chose a manual in my previous Skoda. (Australia don’t offer manuals in Superb Sportlines). 

It's easy to hate the pedantic, but in instances like this, it really helps to be a bit pedantic when finding out what work is going to be done on your car.

They said they had replaced the DSG, but they clearly haven't, despite having authorisation from Skoda to do so. (Assuming they had, and weren't lying/ambiguous about that.)

I'd be asking them why they short-changed you on the work they had told you they'd be doing.

[Donweather]

4 hours ago, j caff said:

Just use the brakes for the last little bit and leave the box in second, it's not like you're driving an 18 wheeler with a heavy load. You're really doing things to a dsg box that it wasn't designed to be doing. There is a thing called mechanical sympathy. 

How is downshifting from 2nd to 1st any different from downshifting from 3rd to 2nd in terms of hurting the DSG?  It’s just engaging the clutch and changing down to a lower gear. Just like it does from 4 to 3 or 3 to 2 etc. Throw the DSG in sport mode and it will do it at the drop of a hat from 3rd to 2nd every time you’re slowing up. 

[Donweather]

3 hours ago, EnterName said:

It's easy to hate the pedantic, but in instances like this, it really helps to be a bit pedantic when finding out what work is going to be done on your car.

They said they had replaced the DSG, but they clearly haven't, despite having authorisation from Skoda to do so. (Assuming they had, and weren't lying/ambiguous about that.)

I'd be asking them why they short-changed you on the work they had told you they'd be doing.

I have an invoice from the dealer that states replaced DSG including part numbers and labour job codes. Are you suggesting the dealer is committing fraud?

[j caff]

13 minutes ago, Donweather said:

How is downshifting from 2nd to 1st any different from downshifting from 3rd to 2nd in terms of hurting the DSG?  It’s just engaging the clutch and changing down to a lower gear. Just like it does from 4 to 3 or 3 to 2 etc. Throw the DSG in sport mode and it will do it at the drop of a hat from 3rd to 2nd every time you’re slowing up. 

Because 1st gear's function is for moving off from rest on the flat or on a 1in4 gradient and is geared appropriately. 

[EnterName]

On 28/09/2022 at 05:05, Donweather said:

Skoda have agreed to replace DSG under warranty.

 

On 05/01/2023 at 08:14, Donweather said:

DSG replaced today.

 

On 05/01/2023 at 08:14, Donweather said:

Dealer couldn’t tell me exactly what they replaced (technicians had left for the day).

 

On 06/01/2023 at 02:40, Donweather said:

Dealer rang me back this morning and said that with the DQ 250 the whole unit is replaced as one complete DSG (mechatronics and clutch pack). So brand spanking new DSG and first drive it crunches from 2nd to 1st. Not happy. 

 

Ah! Now I see. I missed your 02:40 post where you said the whole unit was replaced. My bad for not reading all the posts.

So it looks like the dealer DID replace the DSG, as it sounded like they had, and indeed had the authority to do so.

Hmmm.

[Donweather]

6 hours ago, j caff said:

Because 1st gear's function is for moving off from rest on the flat or on a 1in4 gradient and is geared appropriately. 

Agree it’s geared appropriately but it’s also just another gear to use. As I said I’m not redlining it each time I change down. 

[MarkyG82]

I'm in two minds with this. First I can see how engine braking is good for slow speed stuff but wouldn't want to be shifting to 1st from 2k revs. Maybe sub 1500. The boxes are designed to preselect the next gear and I suspect it would be thinking about 3rd in that situation rather than 1st. Unless the logic is built into it to understand that you are slowing.

But on the other hand if the system allows the shift.......

[j caff]

22 minutes ago, MarkyG82 said:

I'm in two minds with this. First I can see how engine braking is good for slow speed stuff but wouldn't want to be shifting to 1st from 2k revs. Maybe sub 1500. The boxes are designed to preselect the next gear and I suspect it would be thinking about 3rd in that situation rather than 1st. Unless the logic is built into it to understand that you are slowing.

But on the other hand if the system allows the shift.......

If the system allows... The system also assumes some common sense. Anyway I'm unfollowing this thread now, life is too short. 

[ApertureS]

Just so everyone is aware… the clutches aren’t on/off.

 

the pressure is varied and the rate of engagement can vary too.

 

shifting at 30mph at 2000rpm (probably 3rd) down to 1st is not advisable but technically possible, the gearbox would simply slip the clutch a lot so the rpm wouldn’t shoot up, as the rpm got closer to what is required it would feather the clutch in a bit more at a time.

 

the joys of oil cooled clutches helps keep them cool and from burning out with the large amount of slippage that occurs on daily driving.

[numskull]

Not really getting why one would want a semi-auto box to act like a manual but in any event, when I was driving manuals - and I’d estimate this to be circa 1,000 different units during my 23 years in car rental and my S1 and 2 Superbs were both manuals - it’d never occur to me to change down from 2nd to 1st to engine brake. When I learnt to drive 40 odd years ago, I was taught to go into 1st once the car was at a standstill, as basically it was only used to move the car off from being stationary. Still, each to their own I guess…..

[Gammyleg]

3 hours ago, numskull said:

I was taught to go into 1st once the car was at a standstill

Me too and have had no need to change that mindset since 1980 ( when I passed my test ).

 

I'd only maybe consider it if I was driving on snow or ice.

[MarkyG82]

Gearboxes have changed in the last 40 years and can handle a change down before stationary. But I do also agree that I would never consider making that change if the engine was doing 2k revs. If you are not getting the required engine braking from that then you should be on the brakes, going slower to start with or not loaded so heavy.

[Ootohere]

As it is there are plenty of VW Engines / Gearboxes / vehicles for a few years now that have been coasting before you ever come to a halt and have disengaged from gear and even cut the engine before you even touch the brakes so requiring you to.

Often to the drivers annoyance and this can have them switch stop / start off.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/480774-stop-start-system-stops-the-engine-before-i-fully-stop-the-car

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 3 March, 2023 by toot

[numskull]

1 hour ago, MarkyG82 said:

Gearboxes have changed in the last 40 years and can handle a change down before stationary.

Yeah, I know 40 years ago was the dark ages or just after WW2 to many under 40, but oddly gearboxes have been able to do this since the introduction of synchromesh on 1st gear on family cars in the late 1960’s. But it’s just designed - which is still the case I might add - to have the gearbox under little or no load and at speed under 5mph, such as coming up to a roundabout with slow moving traffic, but ideally, it still should undertaken when the car is at a standstill. 

Edited 3 March, 2023 by numskull

[MarkyG82]

Just now, numskull said:

Yeah, I know 40 years ago was the dark ages or just after WW2 to many under 40, but oddly gearboxes have been able to do this since the introduction of synchromesh on 1st gear on family cars in the late 1960’s. But it’s just designed - which is still the case I might add - to have the gearbox under little or no load and at speed under 5mph, such as coming up to a roundabout with slow moving traffic, but ideally, it still should undertaken when the car is at a standstill. 

 

Admittedly I have just turned that ripe age so do I count as being both old and young?

 I also didn't realise syncromesh in 1st dated that far back.

Do we know without going out and trying what car speed is when engine is 2k revs in second? Imagine it's mid to high teens? Far too high for 1st gear. Should be walking pace like you say.

[JR RS]

Now, let me consider the options here.....

 

1. Drop the gearbox into 1st so I can engine brake whilst moving, to come to a stop

Or

2. Leave the gearbox in 2nd and use the brakes to come to a stop, and let the gearbox automatically drop into 1st when it's ready.

 

I know which one I'll b doing as I'd much prefer to replace brake pads & rotors, rather than having the mechatronics replaced.

[Donweather]

Ok fair to say there’s differences of opinion on this which I appreciate everyone’s opinions. But for those who believe the gearbox isn’t designed for downshifting from 2nd to 1st unless you’ve come to a complete stop just try the following. 
 

Throw the DSG into sport mode. Drive in S2 at around 3000rpm (which is around 40km/hr). Dump your right foot on the accelerator. What happens. DSG downshifts under full throttle to S1 jumping up to around 4000-4500rpm under full torque from the engine. 
 

now which scenario is putting more strain on your gearbox. The one above or downshifting from 2nd to 1st under engine compression braking. 

[MarkyG82]

Under load the engine will have a better chance at rev matching naturally. Under the reverse load something has to raise the revs up to match. Correct me please but I don't think these have rev matching coded in so the clutch will have to drag the engine up to speed on its own.

I'm not an expert driver and certainly can't do heel-toe but I can just about manage a half decent rev match on a manual. Makes a big difference to the loads through the components.