Sudden Over Temperature warning

[darwinjake]

So I was on my way back from the school run this morning and I got the red overheat alarm, you know the scary one that says stop immediately 

 

Normally I don't pay too much attention as the gauge goes to 90 and sticks there regardless of the time or distance driven but when the warning went off it was already touching 130!! I pulled over, stopped the engine and popped the bonnet but the engine wasn't running hot or showing any signs of over heating (no steam or ticking, pipes cool and coolant levels ok). I waited a few minutes then turned on again, the needle went to 90 but appear to stabilise but after a few minutes driving it started to rise again. I repeated the cycle again and got it to the local village garage were they also couldn't see any sign of it over heating. Since then on the drive home it has been at 90 ?

 

Looking on the forums it would point to the water pump but I have a question, if it has the malfunctioning water pump would the engine not of been hot? The mechanic said he could hold all the hoses with no issue?

 

Also another thing that may be related is that the timing belt is due for replacement next year and I know that the water pump is often done at the same time due to the complexity of it location, but are the two components actually linked in anyway as when the car was serviced at the end of Sept they commented on a 'noise from the timing belt'

 

FYI its a 2017 2.0TDI 190ps

[MATT0693]

There is couple of things it could be, although it sounds like the early signs of pump failure.

I presume the coolant levels are ok?.. No recent work carried out or obvious leaks that could cause an air-lock? 

It could be something as simple as a faulty coolant temp sensor, but definitely get it looked into as overheating will cause further problems.

 

If the pump isn't circulating the coolant, the hoses probably will be cold as no hot fluid is being pushed through them, all the hot coolant will be inside the engine itself.

Any noise from the timing belt area should be investigated (the pump runs from the belt), if any of the components fail you are looking at a big bill for a engine rebuild or replacement engine.

 

 

 

[darwinjake]

Thanks, I'm waiting on a call back from a local independent garage about timing belt and water pump replacement. I'm just nervous about getting there as its probably about 15ish miles

[MATT0693]

My advice would be drive it gently, keep the engine load as low as possible and revs down, if you can plan for a coffee break halfway just to keep the engine as cold as possible.

If your engine is anything like mine, it takes 6 miles to warm up in the cooler months anyway.

 

If you are with the AA/RAC, they can always tow the car there for you (Just check if your cover starts at home or 1/4 of a mile away).

 

On a side note, check what brands your garage are going to fit and the warranty.

There are plenty of cheap pumps available from motor factors/online retailer for £40-50 with a 12month warranty, a few quid extra will get you 2-3years.

Genuine pumps are available for around £80, or premium brands such as INA are also similar money.

[KenONeill]

4 hours ago, darwinjake said:

The mechanic said he could hold all the hoses with no issue?

So maybe the thermostat intermittently sticking closed? That does seem to fit with all your reported symptoms.

[ApertureS]

5 hours ago, KenONeill said:

So maybe the thermostat intermittently sticking closed? That does seem to fit with all your reported symptoms.

Newer engines don’t use a thermostat as such. 
especially the tdi’s.

the aim is to get the engine up to temp as quick as possible so they basically disengage the water pump to stop flow. Then to regulate the temperature they enable and disable the water pump allowing water to flow or not through the radiator. 
 

but same kind of thing on these; instead of a thermostat, the water pump shroud sticks 😞  

 

 

(The Tsi’s use a maze of valves and electronic pumps plus a small belt driven one) 

[darwinjake]

spoke with the mechanic today and as soon as I said the temp suddenly shooting up he said water pump, so that's that

 

unfortunately that means the timing belt at the same time but the garage is being brilliant to get it straight in

[bubib5]

16 hours ago, ApertureS said:

Newer engines don’t use a thermostat as such. 
especially the tdi’s.

the aim is to get the engine up to temp as quick as possible so they basically disengage the water pump to stop flow. Then to regulate the temperature they enable and disable the water pump allowing water to flow or not through the radiator. 
 

but same kind of thing on these; instead of a thermostat, the water pump shroud sticks 😞  

 

 

(The Tsi’s use a maze of valves and electronic pumps plus a small belt driven one) 

Not trying to undermine you, just wondering, if the newer TDIs shut off the pumps when cold, how do they achieve flow through the cab radiator to provide heat? Once again, im just curios, not being a smart ass!

[Bap33]

Hi,

 

Same "experience" for me yesterday on the way home from work. I have a 17 km drive to get home, 2/3 of the distance is on motorway.

I was roughly at the half of the trip, gently cruising at 110km/h, when I also had this scary warning message 'Engine overtemperature. Stop Engine !' Since I had activated the offroad mode on my Columbus and both oil and coolant temperatures were selected and displayed, I saw the coolant temp 'spike' at 117°C. I immediately slowed down at 90 km/h to see if coolant temperature would decrease. Fortunately, it went back to 90°C quickly. Then no warning message anymore.

It's the first time, this happens.

 

Not comfortable with the idea of water pump replacement soon with only 62000 km on the clock (also a MY2017 and TDI190). 

 

Could it be related (I mean caused) to the silikat bag in the coolant tank? I did not removed it nor replaced the coolant with G12 or G12+.

I remember about a thread in Octavia 3 forum concerning silikat bag. AFAIK, this silikat bag aims at extending the water pump life. But Indeed it doesn't especially, if it leaks.

 

Do you think, I could significantly (I mean ~1-2 years / 20-40000 km) postpone the waterpump and time belt replacement if I remove the silikat bag and change the coolant?

 

Thanks.

 

Edited 19 October, 2021 by Bap33

[ApertureS]

3 hours ago, bubib5 said:

Not trying to undermine you, just wondering, if the newer TDIs shut off the pumps when cold, how do they achieve flow through the cab radiator to provide heat? Once again, im just curios, not being a smart ass!

Im not taking it like that dont worry. The forum is to help everyone out.

They use a small water pump called an auxilary water pump to pump water where it is needed outside of the normal circuit. 

 

Look just like the one posted below and these can be used independent of the main block cooling pump for interior heating/turbo cooling and things a like.

 

 

[Bap33]

Note: When I got the message, the outside temperature was only 17,5C. Not a heat wave temperature. ☹️

[darwinjake]

It would appear that someone in Skoda HQ has pressed a button to trigger the water pump on all 2017 190ps  TDI's 😜 It's going to be an expensive job but I found a independent VW garage who is doing it for almost half of the dealer cost.

And  its still cheaper than replacing the engine......

 

[Bap33]

I´ve made some researches on the net.

This problem seems to be quite widely spread on TDI engines on all VAG brands.

It also appears that it is a well known issue since several spare parts manufacturers propose 2 version of timing belt kit.

- One is OEM like, including a coolant pump with a valve 

- One including a coolant pump without valve.

This 2nd option makes me think that it is a very well known issue, since this overtemperature problem is massively caused by the valve seizing in the coolant pump...

Edited 20 October, 2021 by Bap33

[varaderoguy]

The Coolant Pump has just given you its first warning.  The second warning will not be so nice - as the pump is failing.

 

Best to get the coolant pump and timing belt changed (anywhere between £300 to £650 depending on independant/VAG specialist/Skoda dealer).

[J.R.]

Its a shroud although I don't doubt that many suppliers call it a valve.

 

It shrouds the impellor to prevent pumping.

 

The system when it works is absolutely brilliant, compared to previous VAG TDi's the heater starts giving out heat much earlier and the engine gets up to full operating temperature in half the miles that it would without the shroud, for that reason I would replace mine like for like.

 

Are they electrically operated? I think so because there is a connector, if so then its such a shame that they did not choose to do it in the reliable old school way with a wax pellet mechanism.

[Bap33]

Symptoms trend to confirm my coolant pump is about to die.

2 others slight overtemp in 2 trips shorter than 15km. I managed to limit them. 
For the 2 latest short trips, I set air cabin temperature on ‘HI’ and DCC on ´Eco’ and did not drive faster than 80km/h. It worked! Coolant temp did not went higher than 90C.

Only one more 20km trip to drive the car to my local dealer on Monday to have it repaired.

Timing belt and accessories belt will be replaced at the same time for ~900€. ☹️

[Bap33]

Problem fixed! Coolant pump failure has been confirmed. 

Congratulation to my local dealer who managed to find available ressources in less than one week, and to replace the complete timing-belt, coolant pump and accessories belt kit and to obtain coverage form Skoda France in 1 day today!

Skoda France finally covers the coolant pump and labor time at 90%. I've thus been charged for the remaining 10% as well as the other spare parts (timing belt and accessories belt). I finally paid 600€ instead of 895€. 

 

At least it will be a good selling point, when time for myMk3 replacement has come (probably end of 2022 of 2023).  

 

P.S.: I managed to get some pics of the pump. I'll post them here.

 

 

[yesman]

Can more or less be 100% certain it will be water pump failure as has exactly the same happen to my Superb at the start of the year, fortunately mine was due it cambelt change around 10 months later so just bought that forward a bit, when it was changed the garage showed me the pump and there's a diverter ring on the impeller that move when the car gets up to temperature to send the water around the cooling system a different way, a bit like the old thermostat did, the ring on the pump had seized causing the car to overheat. This would explain the cold hoses as only the engine block is overheating and not the cooling system.

[bubib5]

4 hours ago, Bap33 said:

Problem fixed! Coolant pump failure has been confirmed. 

Congratulation to my local dealer who managed to find available ressources in less than one week, and to replace the complete timing-belt, coolant pump and accessories belt kit and to obtain coverage form Skoda France in 1 day today!

Skoda France finally covers the coolant pump and labor time at 90%. I've thus been charged for the remaining 10% as well as the other spare parts (timing belt and accessories belt). I finally paid 600€ instead of 895€. 

 

At least it will be a good selling point, when time for myMk3 replacement has come (probably end of 2022 of 2023).  

 

P.S.: I managed to get some pics of the pump. I'll post them here.

 

 

Could you explain in more detail how and why has Skoda partially covered the expense? I see yours is a 2017, mine is end of 2016, so wondering if i get the same issue, how can i get Skoda Croatia to cover for the expense? Thank you! And glad you solved it so quick!

[darwinjake]

I now also have it fixed  I was due the cam belt change next year so also brought it forward and got the belt and pump changed for £458 at an independent VW garage and they even made room to get it done asap. Overall a good deal as the dealer quoted £699 just for the belt

[yesman]

5 hours ago, darwinjake said:

I now also have it fixed  I was due the cam belt change next year so also brought it forward and got the belt and pump changed for £458 at an independent VW garage and they even made room to get it done asap. Overall a good deal as the dealer quoted £699 just for the belt

Exactly the same as me mate, price almost identical, it wasn't the Lion Garage was it?

[Bap33]

16 hours ago, bubib5 said:

Could you explain in more detail how and why has Skoda partially covered the expense? I see yours is a 2017, mine is end of 2016, so wondering if i get the same issue, how can i get Skoda Croatia to cover for the expense? Thank you! And glad you solved it so quick!

I 'played' on 2 things.

- Just remind that there's no recommendation to change the coolant pump before the timing belt, whose replacement is only recommended at 210000 km. Mine was really far from that with only 62000 km on the clock.

- Simply mentioned that my customer satisfaction would strongly influence our decision regarding my wife's car replacement in 2022.

But I don't really know what effectively made them decide to cover 90% of the coolant pump and related labor costs. 🤔

[bubib5]

7 hours ago, Bap33 said:

I 'played' on 2 things.

- Just remind that there's no recommendation to change the coolant pump before the timing belt, whose replacement is only recommended at 210000 km. Mine was really far from that with only 62000 km on the clock.

- Simply mentioned that my customer satisfaction would strongly influence our decision regarding my wife's car replacement in 2022.

But I don't really know what effectively made them decide to cover 90% of the coolant pump and related labor costs. 🤔

Thank you for the input, if god forbid i get the same issue i will try to remember this, i am as well very low on milage, just hit 65.000KM last month, all servicing done at the main dealer, all on time, and per the service guides.. So i presume i could get them to cover the same if the need arises.. 

[toe]

Might have the same problem 2019 superb 40,000 km on the clock temperature shot up today  fan on full speed coolant in tank hoses cold any more people with same 

Thanks

 

[darwinjake]

13 hours ago, toe said:

Might have the same problem 2019 superb 40,000 km on the clock temperature shot up today  fan on full speed coolant in tank hoses cold any more people with same 

Thanks

 

40,000km seems a little early to have a failure in the water pump??