1.2 TSI Sudden knocking noise!

[Meridion]

Hi guys, got a 1.2 TSI 2012 (but 61 plate). CBZB engine.

 

Quite as a mouse when it is idling normally. Turned it on this morning, and there's now this tapping sound? It doesn't go away after a few seconds or anything, no variation when the engine warms up. I can hear it in the cabin (normally you'd think the engine was off when idling).

 

84k Miles on it. I have since had the oil and filter changed later today, still the same tapping sound (a little quieter but still there, quite noticeable). 

 

Is it really the timing chain going overnight? Or something else I'm missing?

[Meridion]

Maybe this video helps 

[JGrindel]

Does it get faster when you rev the engine more? 

 

These 1.2tsi's had a common issue with the chain stretching and causing it to sound like a bag of nails. 

 

Post 2012 the later 1.2tsi (2012-14) had the revised tensioner fitted. Do you know if yours has had this fix at all?

[Meridion]

18 minutes ago, JGrindel said:

Does it get faster when you rev the engine more? 

 

These 1.2tsi's had a common issue with the chain stretching and causing it to sound like a bag of nails. 

 

Post 2012 the later 1.2tsi (2012-14) had the revised tensioner fitted. Do you know if yours has had this fix at all?

It was serviced at the dealers for most of its life but I don't know about that. I could check. 

 

And yes it is dependent on the rpm of the engine. I spoke to another vag owner who looked at it and said it's perfectly normal 😅 I might just be paranoid. I've just started putting this E10 stuff in, so it could be that making it sound different?

[Warrior193]

Hi Meridion, welcome to the forum - assuming E10 is accepted for CBZB, change of fuel  should not be cause - engine management should be able to cope with it. Possibly a noisy valve-follower (hydraulic) in which case not a cause for concern - failing timing chain/chain tensioner, especially at your mileage, is a distinct possibility and should be checked ASAP. 

[nta16]

Meridion, I don't know what it is (only guess) but on that video it sounds very loud and wants sorting ASAP, gawd knows what that other VAG owner's vehicle is like if he thinks that's normal!

 

It won't be E10 petrol, some reassurance and proof here. - https://check-vehicle-compatibility-e10-petrol.service.gov.uk/manufacturer/Škoda

 

Who changed the engine oil and filter and didn't say or do anything about that noise?

 

You need a proper mechanic to listen to and look at that, preferably with a suitable scan tool.

 

But do remember the engine isn't the most important component or system on the car, much more important are brakes, steering, suspension (all three include the tyres), lights and glass areas.

 

Edited 8 November, 2021 by nta16
speeling

[AnnoyingPentium]

3 minutes ago, nta16 said:

But do remember the engine isn't the most important component or system on the car, much more important are brakes, steering, suspension (all three include the tyres), lights and glass areas.

 

You mustn't forget the seatbelts too, or at least that's what my driving theory book preached. 

[nta16]

14 minutes ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

You mustn't forget the seatbelts too,

True, plus supplementary restraint systems too then.

 

 

14 minutes ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

or at least that's what my driving theory book preached. 

When I was taught to drive although front seatbelts were fitted to cars, but certainly not to all especially the older ones, it wasn't law to wear front seatbelts until over 5 years later.  It was all fields around here when I was a young girl but a lot has changed since then . . .

 

Edited 8 November, 2021 by nta16

[Meridion]

47 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Meridion, I don't know what it is (only guess) but on that video it sounds very loud and wants sorting ASAP, gawd knows what that other VAG owner's vehicle is like if he thinks that's normal!

 

It won't be E10 petrol, some reassurance and proof here. - https://check-vehicle-compatibility-e10-petrol.service.gov.uk/manufacturer/Škoda

 

Who changed the engine oil and filter and didn't say or do anything about that noise?

 

You need a proper mechanic to listen to and look at that, preferably with a suitable scan tool.

 

But do remember the engine isn't the most important component or system on the car, much more important are brakes, steering, suspension (all three include the tyres), lights and glass areas.

 

Thanks for the reply!

 

I changed the oil and filter myself. I've always serviced and repaired my own cars. But this is my first petrol. 

 

It's thrown me because the night before it would idle virtually silent. The next morning it was like that, no matter how many times I turned it off and restarted it. Weird. 

 

It's a lot quieter now that I have changed the oil. 

 

I just thought the chain stretch was gradual? This has gone from nothing, to constant tapping overnight. Is it really the chain tensioner? Does it just snap?

Edited 8 November, 2021 by Meridion

[nta16]

I'm not mechanical or an expert in anything but I do wonder about the previous servicing, maintenance and driving of the car if  just changing the engine oil and filter has made it a lot quieter (and I'm a big fan of good quality of work in oil changes and the use of good quality oils).

 

Obviously things can snap or break in an instant even after gradual wear but I'd not restrict the thinking to just the chain and tensioner though they may be involved.  These things often start with a rattle, though if the tensioner goes it can be messy for the engine.  Which is why I suggest getting it sorted ASAP - but it might be something else.  Plugging in a good scan tool may bring up error codes that someone who knows what they're doing will be able to interpret from and go forward with the diagnostics (never just go on raw error codes).

 

Another advantage of the good scan tool is that it could pick up error messages without needing to run the engine, initially at least, I would be very reluctant to run the engine sounding like that until I had more certainty about the cause of the noise.  It might be valves but to me (that doesn't really know) on that video recording it sounded very loud.  Diesels even from new are loud so it might not seem as loud to you but I've got a very old noisy car so it's not like I'm used to RR engine noise either.

 

Perhaps I'm being over cautious but generally I'm nowhere near as particular about having the mechanics of a car as near to spot as reasonable on as I used to be.

 

Good luck, let us know how you get on, other more knowledgeable poster may come along later.

 

Edited 8 November, 2021 by nta16

[Meridion]

1 minute ago, nta16 said:

I'm not mechanical or an expert in anything but I do wonder about the previous servicing, maintenance and driving of the car if  just changing the engine oil and filter has made it a lot quieter (and I'm a big fan of good quality of work in oil changes and the use of good quality oils).

 

Obviously things can snap or break in an instant even after gradual wear but I'd not restrict the thinking to just the chain and tensioner though they may be involved.  These things often start with a rattle though if the tensioner goes it can be messy for the engine.  Which is why I suggest getting it sorted ASAP - but it might be something else.  Plugging in a good scan tool may bring up error codes that someone who knows what they're doing will be able to interpret from and go forward with the diagnostics (never just go on raw error codes).

 

Another advantage of the good scan tool is that it could pick up error messages without needing to run the engine, initially at least, I would be very reluctant to run the engine sounding like that until I had more certainty about the cause of the noise.  It might be valves but to me (that doesn't really know) on that video recording it sounded very loud.  Diesels from new are loud so it might not seem as loud to you but I've got a very old noisy car so it's not like I'm used to RR engine noise either.

 

Perhaps I'm being over cautious but generally I'm nowhere near as particular about having the mechanics of a car as near to spot on as I used to be.

 

Good luck, let us know how you get on, other more knowledgeable poster may come along later.

 

Thank you! I did have it scanned yesterday with a VCDS and nothing came up to do with the engine. It's in the garage for some dsg work. I'll ask them what they think of it.

[nta16]

34 minutes ago, Meridion said:

Thank you! I did have it scanned yesterday with a VCDS and nothing came up to do with the engine. It's in the garage for some dsg work. I'll ask them what they think of it.

No worries.

 

That is a problem with relying on just error codes (or the lack of them)  there's clearly something wrong yet it hasn't yet breached the computer programs' parameters which is why a good mechanic is always wanted.

 

DSG work is a good example of where a scan tool can be very useful but personally I also think the old stuff of changing the g/box oil (careful possibility of four types?) also helps as although the gearbox has the electronics and computer programs it's still very mechanical and  a lot of car mechanical servicing and maintenance boils down to just cleaning and lubricating which a thorough change of oil is both.

 

As your car is 2012 rather than just turning the ignition off and back on for the computers' "off 'nd on agun" I'd try disconnect the battery from the car overnight, discharge any lurking electricity in the car by touching the two battery cables together for about 20 seconds or so and also turning the headlight switch on.  With the battery disconnected I'd take the chance to do a long low slow recharge) and resync any remote keyfobs and anything else on the car relate, all a sort of reboot/refresh/reset sort of thing. 

 

As part of the servicing of just the engine I'd look at changing (as required) the air filter and spark plugs and getting the correct cans of MAF cleaner and throttle body cleaner and allow for resets from cleaning these.

 

I'd also check the cabin filter having seen the state of one recently.

 

Of course this would be after the more important items like brakes, steering, suspension (all three include the tyres), lights, glass areas - and seatbelts and restraint systems 😁 but it's difficult to check some of these things if the engine isn't right.

 

A lot of PO/owners seem to think a service is just engine oil and filter change, I know some people really do a very full and detailed regular service on their cars but all of the "full service" histories I've seen  have generally only covered the basics and often then not within manufacturer's date or mileage.

 

I always suggest to an owner getting a "classic" (over-valued and over-priced old car) that they carry out a rolling full 36k-mile check and service whilst using the car regularly on reasonable length journeys to iron out the wrinkles, and discover more with use - but the same can be applied to any car out of warranty and over or approaching 36k-miles.

 

Good luck.

 

Edited 8 November, 2021 by nta16

[Meridion]

2 minutes ago, nta16 said:

No worries.

 

That is a problem with relying on just error codes (or the lack of them)  there's clearly something wrong yet it hasn't yet breached the computer programs parameters which is why a good mechanic is always wanted.

 

DSG work is a good example of where a scan tool can be very useful but personally I also think the old stuff of changing the g/box oil (careful possibility of four types?) also helps as although the gearbox has the electronics and computer programs its still very mechanical and  a lot of car mechanical servicing and maintenance boils down to cleaning and lubricating which a change of oil is both.

 

As your car is 2012 rather than just turning the ignition off and back on for the computers' "off 'nd on agun" I'd try disconnect the battery from the car overnight (and take the chance to do a long low slow recharge) and resync any remote keyfobs and anything else on the car relate, all a sort of reboot/refresh/reset sort of thing.

 

As part of the servicing of just the engine I'd look at changing (as required) the air filter and spark plugs and getting the correct cans of MAF cleaner and throttle body cleaner and allow for resets from cleaning these.

 

I'd also check the cabin filter having seen the state of one recently.

 

Of course this would be after the more important items like brakes, steering, suspension (all three include the tyres), lights, glass areas - and seatbelts and restraint systems 😁 but it's difficult to check some of these things if the engine isn't right.

 

A lot of PO/owners seem to think a service is just engine oil and filter change, I know some people really do a very full and detailed regular service on their cars but all of the "full service" histories I've seen  have generally only covered the basics and often then not within manufacturer's date or mileage.

 

I always suggest to an owner getting a "classic" (over-valued and over-priced old car) that they carry out a rolling full 36k-mile check and service whilst using the car regularly on reasonable length journeys to iron out the wrinkles, and discover more with use - but the same can be applied to any car out of warranty and over or approaching 36k-miles.

 

Good luck.

 

I really like your philosophy! 

 

I came from a v6 3.0 diesels merc engine. 2009, 170k on th clock and worked like a dream. That really was bulletproof if serviced properly. ULEZ has forced me to get a tiny petrol (or a new diesel - pointless as the writing is on the wall for diesels). 

 

The build quality doesn't seem to be there on this 1.2 tsi 😅 I don't want refinement, just blumin reliability. Is it only old Toyota yaris and Micras that can do moon Miles nowadays?? 🤣

[Meridion]

3 hours ago, Warrior193 said:

Hi Meridion, welcome to the forum - assuming E10 is accepted for CBZB, change of fuel  should not be cause - engine management should be able to cope with it. Possibly a noisy valve-follower (hydraulic) in which case not a cause for concern - failing timing chain/chain tensioner, especially at your mileage, is a distinct possibility and should be checked ASAP. 

Thanks for the reply! 

 

The thing is I specifically checked for this before buying the car. The car had been sat for approx 4 days before I started it. And it started without a single knock or clang or tap. Smooth as butter. I just can't see how it has gone down hill so quickly. 

 

Normally don't you hear it briefly on start up? And then it gets longer and longer? 

 

It may have been low on oil, but there was no oil light on the dash 🤷‍♂️.

 

I love cars. I hate buying them 😁

[nta16]

(I edited in a bit about discharging the battery in my previous post whilst you were typing)

 

Well I'm not a fan of German cars Merec, BMW, and dare I say it here VW.  I will give you Merc for their diesel engines (all that practice with taxis and delivery vans 😉)  and auto boxes but I had mates with Mercs from the bean-counter days and remember years back talking to someone in the posher 'ouses on why he'd got shot of his 5 year old 5-Series and got a 10 year old Lexus (LM400) as a temporary car and it was a revelation to him (but I also remember Lexus dealerships first setting up here, all of a sudden Jag owners' wives were getting flowers from the Jag Dealership when the cars were in there, so lots of flowers).

 

I particularly have it in for Mercs as a mate stole a fortnight of my life on a 20 minute tour of his parked up new grandma Merc coupe "with oxblood leather interior", it was red, and this was on my surprise (joint)  50th birthday bash at another mate's microbrewery, I was only so polite because his wife was with him - he doesn't drink let alone proper ale, he didn't even keep the car long.

 

Toyota are still reliable I believe (perhaps not as good as of old), I know a couple of people with 20+ year Toyotas (Yaris and Supra) they barely get serviced let alone need much other work.  Hondas seem the same.  Old Nissans and Micras are fine but don't forget they've been under the influence of Renault for a good number of years so at the same time Merc were going through their bad patch Nissan were starting theirs.

 

Pity Daihatsu aren't still over here, until he had to stop driving next door had a 20 year old neglected one yet it was bullet-proof.

 

Uhmmm, seems to be a theme to all these reliable cars but you do have to get passed the weak link of English Dealerships of course.

 

 

43 minutes ago, Meridion said:

It may have been low on oil, but there was no oil light on the dash 🤷‍♂️.

 Gonna have to slap your wrist there, even if it has a low oil level warning light (does it?, oil level?) you shouldn't be relying on it, do the unrefined and use the dipstick that way you can tell the oil level and perhaps something about the oil on it  (colour, smell, consistency). 🙂

 

Edited 8 November, 2021 by nta16

[Meridion]

4 minutes ago, nta16 said:

(I edited in a bit about discharging the battery in my previous post whilst you were typing)

 

Well I'm not a fan of German cars Merec, BMW, and dare I say it here VW.  I will give you Merc for their diesel engines (all that practice with taxis and delivery vans 😉)  and auto boxes but I had mates with Mercs from the bean-counter days and remember years back talking to someone in the posher 'ouses on why he'd got shot of his 5 year old 5-Series and got a 10 year old Lexus (LM400) as a temporary car and it was a revelation to him (but I also remember Lexus dealerships first setting up here, all of a sudden Jag owners' wives were getting flowers from the Jag Dealership when the cars were in there, so lots of flowers).

 

I particularly have it in for Mercs as a mate stole a fortnight of my life on a 20 minute tour of his parked up new grandma Merc coupe "with oxblood leather interior", it was red, and this was on my surprise (joint)  50th birthday bash at another mate's microbrewery, I was only so polite because his wife was with him - he doesn't drink let alone proper ale, he didn't even keep the car long.

 

Toyota are still reliable I believe (perhaps not as good as of old), I know a couple of people with 20+ year Toyotas (Yaris and Supra) they barely get serviced let alone need much other work.  Hondas seem the same.  Old Nissans and Micras are fine but don't forget they've been under the influence of Renault for a good number of years so at the same time Merc were going through their bad patch Nissan were starting theirs.

 

Pity Daihatsu aren't still over here, until he had to stop driving next door had a 20 year old neglected one yet it was bullet-proof.

 

Uhmmm, seems to be a theme to all these reliable cars but you do have to get passed the weak link of English Dealerships of course.

 

 

 Gonna have to slap your wrist there, even if it has a low oil level warning light (does it?, oil level?) you shouldn't be relying on it, do the unrefined and use the dipstick that way you can tell the oil level and perhaps something about the oil on it  (colour, smell, consistency). 🙂

 

This It where it gets interesting... The book says this engine takes 3.5L.

 

I put in 3L të begin with (obviously there's still a bit of oil in the engine etc). 

 

Took it to e petrol station forecourt so I knew it was on a flat surface. Let it sit for 5 minutes. Checked dipstick....oil is only at the minimum level? How does that work?

 

[sepulchrave]

There might be about a teaspoonful of oil left in the engine after draining, but you should put in the full 3.5 litres recommended.

[Meridion]

Just now, sepulchrave said:

There might be about a teaspoonful of oil left in the engine after draining, but you should put in the full 3.5 litres recommended.

Ah! Thank you so much, I best do that 😬😬

[nta16]

21 minutes ago, Meridion said:

This It where it gets interesting... The book says this engine takes 3.5L.

 

I put in 3L të begin with (obviously there's still a bit of oil in the engine etc). 

 

Took it to e petrol station forecourt so I knew it was on a flat surface. Let it sit for 5 minutes. Checked dipstick....oil is only at the minimum level? How does that work?

This doesn't sound right.

 A quick cold oil drain will leave more old oil and muck in than a warm/hot oil drain left for a long time but there's always some left in so starting at 3 out of  3.5 should have it well up the stick (perhaps even overfull on a sloppy change).  Are you sure the fill capacity including the filter is 3.5l?

 

ETA: Only ever fill to the Max don't put in 3.5l if it requires less, better to underfill (above Min) and top up as required than overfill.

 

Edited 8 November, 2021 by nta16

[Meridion]

Just now, nta16 said:

This doesn't sound right.

 A quick cold oil drain will leave more old oil and muck in than a warm/hot oil drain left for a long time but there's always some left in so starting at 3 out of  3.5 should have it well up the stick (perhaps even overfull on a sloppy change).  Are you sure the fill capacity including the filter is 3.5l?

 

 

I made sure the engine was up to temp before letting it sit for 5mins and then draining it. 

 

The book certainly seems to say so down here....

[nta16]

Just seen this in the 2012/5 Owner's Manual.

 

ETA: cross posting - is yours a 77Kw (at 3.6l)?

Edited 8 November, 2021 by nta16
ETA:

[Meridion]

3 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Just seen this in the 2012/5 Owner's Manual.

 

ETA: cross posting - is yours a 77Kw (at 3.6l)?

Ah learned something new there! Thank you for that! and yes 77KW

 

Edited 8 November, 2021 by Meridion

[sepulchrave]

2 minutes ago, Meridion said:

Ah learned something new there! Thank you for that! and yes 77KW

 

 

Are you kidding me? Engine Oil should always be checked when cold, it's always been that way, my 1967 Hillman Imp was the same!

[nta16]

So assuming (always dangerous) you have the correct Owner's Manual (I'm a disciple of all good books) you have the 2011/11 copy. - https://ws.skoda-auto.com/OwnersManualService/Data/en/Fabia_54/11-2011/Manual/Fabia/A05_Fabia_OwnersManual.pdf

 

From - https://manual.skoda-auto.com/210/en-GB/Models

 

[Meridion]

1 minute ago, sepulchrave said:

 

Are you kidding me? Engine Oil should always be checked when cold, it's always been that way, my 1967 Hillman Imp was the same!

I always thought you just had to leave it long enough so that most of it had drained to the pan, didn't know it had to be cold, how did I miss that bit 😅